Curtis Sironen released [Official p.40]

[Masterton]

I can't agree with you happy. We have enough talent, playing to our roster's strength could see us on the outskirts of the 8\. A couple of good buys won't go astray but really the JT fan boys will have us believe a cleanout and another five year plan is required. Best to get rid of those pesky players who do not buy into JT's dumbed down tactics. Must be like a boil on a scarecrow's arse.

I'm a JT defender (well, I don't want him sacked yet), but I certainly don't want a clean out. The best thing the club is doing is attempting to get value players, like Elijah Taylor, and moving on surplus players.

Obviously this is hampered by the Farah contract, the Broses option & the Lawry re-negotiation, but it's one year at most before we can re-enter the market properly.

 

[happy_tiger]

Ok I'll do it

1 Tedesco Top 3 in his position/16
2 Nofoaluma Bottom four 6 wingers in NRL
3 Simona Maybe Top 24 just
4 Naiqama Bottom 6 centres of 32 (worst centre combo )
5 Rankin Bottom 6 winger of 32
6 Moses Bottom 4 five eights
7 Brooks Bottom 4 half backs
8 Woods Top 4 props from 32
9 Farah Bottom 6 hookers from 16
10 Grant Top 24 Props
11 Lawrence Top 20 back rowers maybe from 32
12 Sironen Bottom 4 from 32 (Worst 11 and 12 )
13 E Taylor Bottom 6 from 16 locks

14 Sue Above average bench player
15 Ava Above average bench player
16 Aloiai Average bench player
17 Ballin Top 4 back up hookers

So how does this rate against most other sides really

Too many people dreaming me thinks and totally over rate our talent

 

[ricksen]

happy - I don't disagree too much with your ratings, but the idea is these guys should be improving as they get older and with more experience. It just isn't happening. Why?

 

[happy_tiger]

happy - I don't disagree too much with your ratings, but the idea is these guys should be improving as they get older and with more experience. It just isn't happening. Why?

Ok where do I start ??

No real pressure coming from other players and no competition for spots

Brought in too young

Weren't that good to begin with , we as a club place far too much on what we see in NYC mean sweet nothing

Too injury prone

Playing out of position

Club doesn't stick enough pressure on them to perform , too scared they will up and leave

Look at other clubs , someone isn't right but talented (Grevsmuhl is a perfect case ) see ya later

 

[tigermac88]

Ok I'll do it

1 Tedesco Top 3 in his position/16
2 Nofoaluma Bottom four 6 wingers in NRL
3 Simona Maybe Top 24 just
4 Naiqama Bottom 6 centres of 32 (worst centre combo )
5 Rankin Bottom 6 winger of 32
6 Moses Bottom 4 five eights
7 Brooks Bottom 4 half backs
8 Woods Top 4 props from 32
9 Farah Bottom 6 hookers from 16
10 Grant Top 24 Props
11 Lawrence Top 20 back rowers maybe from 32
12 Sironen Bottom 4 from 32 (Worst 11 and 12 )
13 E Taylor Bottom 6 from 16 locks

14 Sue Above average bench player
15 Ava Above average bench player
16 Aloiai Average bench player
17 Ballin Top 4 back up hookers

So how does this rate against most other sides really

Too many people dreaming me thinks and totally over rate our talent

And where does the coach rank?

 

[wonka]

Ok I'll do it

1 Tedesco Top 3 in his position/16
2 Nofoaluma Bottom four 6 wingers in NRL
3 Simona Maybe Top 24 just
4 Naiqama Bottom 6 centres of 32 (worst centre combo )
5 Rankin Bottom 6 winger of 32
6 Moses Bottom 4 five eights
7 Brooks Bottom 4 half backs
8 Woods Top 4 props from 32
9 Farah Bottom 6 hookers from 16
10 Grant Top 24 Props
11 Lawrence Top 20 back rowers maybe from 32
12 Sironen Bottom 4 from 32 (Worst 11 and 12 )
13 E Taylor Bottom 6 from 16 locks

14 Sue Above average bench player
15 Ava Above average bench player
16 Aloiai Average bench player
17 Ballin Top 4 back up hookers

So how does this rate against most other sides really

Too many people dreaming me thinks and totally over rate our talent

How about Lovett & Milone Taylor's top picks.

 

[tigermac88]

If some of these guys were dropped for poor form and some of the other guys that are showing good form were promoted instead of some of the plodders that JT selects then maybe some of these under achievers might pick up their game a bit…. The problem is JT doesn't hold players accountable for poor performances so they just plod along knowing they will still be in the team next week, JT doesn't get the best from his players. Why is it some of the top coaches in the NRL can improve average players?

 

[851]

Ok I'll do it

1 Tedesco Top 3 in his position/16
2 Nofoaluma Bottom four 6 wingers in NRL
3 Simona Maybe Top 24 just
4 Naiqama Bottom 6 centres of 32 (worst centre combo )
5 Rankin Bottom 6 winger of 32
6 Moses Bottom 4 five eights
7 Brooks Bottom 4 half backs
8 Woods Top 4 props from 32
9 Farah Bottom 6 hookers from 16
10 Grant Top 24 Props
11 Lawrence Top 20 back rowers maybe from 32
12 Sironen Bottom 4 from 32 (Worst 11 and 12 )
13 E Taylor Bottom 6 from 16 locks

14 Sue Above average bench player
15 Ava Above average bench player
16 Aloiai Average bench player
17 Ballin Top 4 back up hookers

So how does this rate against most other sides really

Too many people dreaming me thinks and totally over rate our talent

And where does the coach rank?

16th out of 16, I honestly do not think he is better than any other NRL coach, and I think a swap with any other coach would be a step forward for us.
Even McFadden had the balls to drop a heap of players, high profile ones at that, Nathan Brown has a bunch of Holden Cup players because of injury, and a victory already over us, there only victory of the year.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Ok I'll do it

1 Tedesco Top 3 in his position/16
2 Nofoaluma Bottom four 6 wingers in NRL
3 Simona Maybe Top 24 just
4 Naiqama Bottom 6 centres of 32 (worst centre combo )
5 Rankin Bottom 6 winger of 32
6 Moses Bottom 4 five eights
7 Brooks Bottom 4 half backs
8 Woods Top 4 props from 32
9 Farah Bottom 6 hookers from 16
10 Grant Top 24 Props
11 Lawrence Top 20 back rowers maybe from 32
12 Sironen Bottom 4 from 32 (Worst 11 and 12 )
13 E Taylor Bottom 6 from 16 locks

14 Sue Above average bench player
15 Ava Above average bench player
16 Aloiai Average bench player
17 Ballin Top 4 back up hookers

So how does this rate against most other sides really

Too many people dreaming me thinks and totally over rate our talent

I appreciate the time you have put into this list Happy but any measure is irrelevant unless we have a competent coach overseeing the players and their development.

 

[Nelson]

16th out of 16, I honestly do not think he is better than any other NRL coach, and I think a swap with any other coach would be a step forward for us.
Even McFadden had the balls to drop a heap of players, high profile ones at that, Nathan Brown has a bunch of Holden Cup players because of injury, and a victory already over us, there only victory of the year.

Nah McFadden is the worst. He's never achieved anything and has better cattle than JT or Brown.

 

[Geo]

16th out of 16, I honestly do not think he is better than any other NRL coach, and I think a swap with any other coach would be a step forward for us.
Even McFadden had the balls to drop a heap of players, high profile ones at that, Nathan Brown has a bunch of Holden Cup players because of injury, and a victory already over us, there only victory of the year.

Nah McFadden is the worst. He's never achieved anything and has better cattle than JT or Brown.

I'd throw McGregor and Barrett into the mix as well…Manly brought him a side...

 

[stevetiger]

Fullback - Lachlan Coote/Darius Boyd
Winger - Kyle Feldt/Corey Oates
Centres - Justin O'Neill/Jack Reed
Centres - Kane Linnett/James Roberts
Winger - Antonio Winterstein/Jordan Kahu
Five-Eighth - Michael Morgan/Anthony Milford
Halfback - Johnathan Thurston/Ben Hunt
Prop - Matthew Scott/Josh McGuire
Hooker - Jake Granville/Andrew McCullough
Prop - James Tamou/Adam Blair
Second Row - Gavin Cooper/Sam Thaiday
Second Row - Ethan Lowe/Matt Gillett
Lock - Jason Taumalolo/Corey Parker

Bench
1 Patrick Kaufusi/Alex Glenn
2 Scott Bolton/Jarrod Wallace
3 Ben Hannant/Jo Ofahengaue
4 John Asiata/Kodi Nikorima

Just posting the top 2 teams in the comp as a comparison to our squad.

There are a few standouts. James Roberts, Milford, Hunt, Thurston & Morgan in the backs and Scott, Tamou, Blair, Thaiday, Taumalolo & Parker in the forwards.

I really don't see our squad as being that bad. Our halves have been terrible, we need a gun forward and possibly a gun outside back but we have enough to work with.

I still think we have the same issues we had at the start of the year. To me it consists of:-

1\. Our halves at this point aren't up to it. They have potential but they have to start killing it.
2\. We lack a forward that can add some impact and do something special. I think Siro was meant to play that role but he hasn't kicked on.
3\. Our coach appears to be a dud.

After watching the team this year I think we also need a quality outside back. I think a high quality winger to replace Rankin would really help us although I think Rankin has been pretty good.

 

[Nelson]

I appreciate the time you have put into this list Happy but any measure is irrelevant unless we have a competent coach overseeing the players and their development.

Yes anything that isn't pure hatred and 100% blame towards JT is irrelevant. You're so zealous in your agenda against the bloke you can't even acknowledge that we have problems outside of him.

Yes, he's been a failure as a coach and it's time for him to go now that he's been given ample chance, but it's not going to be a magical fix when it happens.

 

[Nelson]

There are a few standouts. James Roberts, Milford, Hunt, Thurston & Morgan in the backs and Scott, Tamou, Blair, Thaiday, Taumalolo & Parker in the forwards.

…yeah keep going: Boyd (Australian rep), Coote (fringe NSW rep), Oates (fringe Qld rep), Granville (one of the best hookers going round), Cooper (fringe Qld rep), Lowe (fringe Qld rep), Gillett (Qld rep).

The bench has some real quality there too. They are both pretty amazing squads and a long way ahead of ours.

 

[tigermac88]

There are a few standouts. James Roberts, Milford, Hunt, Thurston & Morgan in the backs and Scott, Tamou, Blair, Thaiday, Taumalolo & Parker in the forwards.

…yeah keep going: Boyd (Australian rep), Coote (fringe NSW rep), Oates (fringe Qld rep), Granville (one of the best hookers going round), Cooper (fringe Qld rep), Lowe (fringe Qld rep), Gillett (Qld rep).

The bench has some real quality there too. They are both pretty amazing squads and a long way ahead of ours.

And a lot of those players were average at best until they had a coach that knew how to get the best out of them.

 

[happy_tiger]

I appreciate the time you have put into this list Happy but any measure is irrelevant unless we have a competent coach overseeing the players and their development.

Yes anything that isn't pure hatred and 100% blame towards JT is irrelevant. You're so zealous in your agenda against the bloke you can't even acknowledge that we have problems outside of him.

Yes, he's been a failure as a coach and it's time for him to go now that he's been given ample chance, but it's not going to be a magical fix when it happens.

Shows you the lack of common sense Paws has , he tries to compare coaches when they are basically on different playing fields playing talent wise

Taylor could coach the side they way he wanted to if he had the playing roster that the Broncos , Cowboys Roosters Dogs have

But when he did try and coach the side that way he had every Taylor hater get stuck into him say why did you do that

 

[tigermac88]

I appreciate the time you have put into this list Happy but any measure is irrelevant unless we have a competent coach overseeing the players and their development.

Yes anything that isn't pure hatred and 100% blame towards JT is irrelevant. You're so zealous in your agenda against the bloke you can't even acknowledge that we have problems outside of him.

Yes, he's been a failure as a coach and it's time for him to go now that he's been given ample chance, but it's not going to be a magical fix when it happens.

Shows you the lack of common sense Paws has , he tries to compare coaches when they are basically on different playing fields playing talent wise

Taylor could coach the side they way he wanted to if he had the playing roster that the Broncos , Cowboys Roosters Dogs have

But when he did try and coach the side that way he had every Taylor hater get stuck into him say why did you do that

But you could also say the same thing in reverse happy, if some of our average players or under achievers were playing in those sides you mentioned or under their coaches then they'd probably going a lot better

 

[ricksen]

happy - I don't disagree too much with your ratings, but the idea is these guys should be improving as they get older and with more experience. It just isn't happening. Why?

Ok where do I start ??

No real pressure coming from other players and no competition for spots

Brought in too young

Weren't that good to begin with , we as a club place far too much on what we see in NYC mean sweet nothing

Too injury prone

Playing out of position

Club doesn't stick enough pressure on them to perform , too scared they will up and leave

Look at other clubs , someone isn't right but talented (Grevsmuhl is a perfect case ) see ya later

And I agree with all of the above. This is pretty much the point I was trying to make. We call ourselves a development club, but we lack the nous to actually develop players.
The squad should be scoring a lot higher in these hypothetical rankings, but they've pretty much all plateaued at best.

 

[stevetiger]

There are a few standouts. James Roberts, Milford, Hunt, Thurston & Morgan in the backs and Scott, Tamou, Blair, Thaiday, Taumalolo & Parker in the forwards.

…yeah keep going: Boyd (Australian rep), Coote (fringe NSW rep), Oates (fringe Qld rep), Granville (one of the best hookers going round), Cooper (fringe Qld rep), Lowe (fringe Qld rep), Gillett (Qld rep).

The bench has some real quality there too. They are both pretty amazing squads and a long way ahead of ours.

I reckon you are picking at straws here. They are both great teams. They are the best 2 squads in the game. The point is that the difference isn't so huge that we don't stand a chance. Blair played for us - was he that good ? Robbie gets criminally underrated on here and I don't even like him that much. He is though one of the top hookers in the game over the last 5-10 years. Woods is great. Tedesco is special. Those squads still have a bunch of average players as well.

I think a bunch of people are now using our squad as an excuse for Taylor's performances. Yes we need to purchase or develop some players but we have a big issue with our coach.

 

[stevetiger]

Taylor could coach the side they way he wanted to if he had the playing roster that the Broncos , Cowboys Roosters Dogs have

Maybe. I'm not sure. You need to understand that those teams try to attack as well as defend. I wonder how they would go if they were playing under Taylor's game plans.

But when he did try and coach the side that way he had every Taylor hater get stuck into him say why did you do that

I don't believe this at all. There is this line that there are Taylor haters out there and it's unjustified. I think the opposite is true. There are people who criticise Taylor fairly and are labelled haters and there are people who support Taylor unconditionally and label others as haters. It's the supporters that are being irrational.

The criticism towards Taylor is based upon the team appearing to be poorly coached via poor game plans. That is in relation to defence and attack. He also gets other things wrong - ala the Robbie drama.