Duterte's War on Drugs

[TCL]

This guy is an absolute nutter.

I wonder how many innocent people have been killed as a result of his war on drugs.

There is a part of me that says is there an alternative cause how many innocent lives have been lost as a result of the actions of addicts and dealers.

Whilst i enjoyed the threads about some of the happy times of my youth, i saw what heroin did to a lot of people in Sydney and now hear second hand what ice is doing and our government needs to take a hard line on those found producing and selling this stuff!

For about half a century of course all of Australia agreed to the (soft) imprisonment option but as you hint where did it get us. We have guys in max security for decades and it does not deter them at all - still carrying business via mobile phones etc. . That is exactly what Duterte says, prison does not scare them, it is only the death penalty that scares them.

About 600,000 pushers/addicts have already surrendered in the Philippines, Duterte wants another 1.2 million to surrender, he is very sensitive, he apologised to the nation that he cannot clean up the problem in six months like he promised in election speeches, a lot worse that he thought he stated, so he asked for an extension of another year to do the "clean up". I have always been on the side of due process and human rights absolutely except this time I am split. (I have even canvassed for such in the Philippines from Australia). But I ponder that if Duterte stops the problem over there will never be solved - there are narco politicians there who thrive on drug money and wipe out any opposition. Whether it be opposing drug runners or do-gooders trying to clean the place up.

The biggest question is that Duterte is still alive - he hasn't been knocked off yet. But he states he is prepared to die for the cause and that he only lives once and if that is his destiny then so be it.

It is alleged that he had is daughters boyfriend knocked off because he did not approve.

When thinking about the Pope's visit, he could have came at mid-night to avoid clogging up the city for half a day.

I hear you but his actions are way to heavy. I'm for long long long term inprisionment and confiscation of assets and wealth to fund their incarceration, stronger and stricter gaol management. But we can't go killing people on suspicion. We all deserve due process.

Long term imprisonment? They have jails built for about 200 holding about 2,000\. they sleep for 2 hours at a time in shifts with legs overlapping each others with a ref to wake those having nightmares. (the Herald article didn't mention those having dreams). The poor pushers would not have much wealth or assets, the rich ones do, and if relativity comes into it they are the ones whom deserve to die the most because they don't need to push.

It's a tough one no doubt about it. But I just can't accept vigilanti justice, all though I love a good western! Cowboy hat, smoke in the mouth and two six shooters oh and lots of baked beans! Blazing saddles style. Sorry had to lighten the mood

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

http://www.cfr.org/courts-and-tribunals/united-states-icj/p26905

The hypocritical part is that the USA threatens to take Duterte to the International Criminal court for informally okaying the killing of drug pushers yet USA and Israel refuse to answer to the International Court of Justice for their actions in killing innocent civilians

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Summary executions are OK Byron? What are you, a revolutionary communist?

Or do you let the country almost totally go to the doghouse instead? I have lived in villages over there and drugs are a big problem - used by rich and poor. Every village has a few pushers. Often are relos so they don't get dobbed in (until now).

The rich virtually don't pay tax, so due process and rehab for a few million will fall on those less able to pay.

The president is doing many other very important things to ease the burden of the lower classes there, revolutionary stuff compared to previous presidents, they only talked and often ripped off the country. That is the reason he is still popular. If he does not make a difference no one will.

In comparison Turnbull is a total BS blusterer who couldn't burst a paper bag.

So some lives are more expendable than others? What about due process? Does that go out the window because they're a poor country? Some of those people are probably selling because the alternative is to starve.

As stated elsewhere he is taking massive steps to alleviate poverty like making salaries uniform throughout the country to prevent the rush to Manila, eliminating 6 month work contracts with no rights, freezing prices on essentials especially during calamities, protecting working ladies from exploitation and arrest - stating that is only due to lack of jobs. So Duterte is consistent in wanting to protect the poor under ALL circumstances. Every few months a woman will commit suicide and take her family with her due to extreme poverty.

Of course some drug pushers became so because of extreme poverty but does that entitle them to save themselves by bringing others down? Of course not and no one here is saying that but Duterte wants to save the next generation - not doing very expensive patch up jobs when it is too late because the next generation is already hooked. Thus creating more poverty. It is very dangerous and shocking to throw due process out the window but isn't it more shocking to let many times more people die because the country cannot afford due process?

This is from the guy who refused a big presidential swearing-in ceremony as did not want to waste the country's money nor his own time - he had been elected to other positions for thirty years and never attended one. For desperate Filipinos he is the real thing, the only one, that is why they stick behind him. Is it their choice? It is a tragedy that a country needs a Duterte.

Actually he has a bit of Artie Beetson in him, he almost refuses to wear formal clothes only when forced to and then humbly. He wears casual shirts underneath and whips the formal off the earliest minute possible and makes all his pressers in casual.

Why not engage in those reforms without summarily executing people on the street? It's a dangerous slope, and you're bound to have someone innocent mixed up in it sooner or later. How much is that innocent person's life worth against a country that can't afford due process?

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

Or do you let the country almost totally go to the doghouse instead? I have lived in villages over there and drugs are a big problem - used by rich and poor. Every village has a few pushers. Often are relos so they don't get dobbed in (until now).

The rich virtually don't pay tax, so due process and rehab for a few million will fall on those less able to pay.

The president is doing many other very important things to ease the burden of the lower classes there, revolutionary stuff compared to previous presidents, they only talked and often ripped off the country. That is the reason he is still popular. If he does not make a difference no one will.

In comparison Turnbull is a total BS blusterer who couldn't burst a paper bag.

So some lives are more expendable than others? What about due process? Does that go out the window because they're a poor country? Some of those people are probably selling because the alternative is to starve.

As stated elsewhere he is taking massive steps to alleviate poverty like making salaries uniform throughout the country to prevent the rush to Manila, eliminating 6 month work contracts with no rights, freezing prices on essentials especially during calamities, protecting working ladies from exploitation and arrest - stating that is only due to lack of jobs. So Duterte is consistent in wanting to protect the poor under ALL circumstances. Every few months a woman will commit suicide and take her family with her due to extreme poverty.

Of course some drug pushers became so because of extreme poverty but does that entitle them to save themselves by bringing others down? Of course not and no one here is saying that but Duterte wants to save the next generation - not doing very expensive patch up jobs when it is too late because the next generation is already hooked. Thus creating more poverty. It is very dangerous and shocking to throw due process out the window but isn't it more shocking to let many times more people die because the country cannot afford due process?

This is from the guy who refused a big presidential swearing-in ceremony as did not want to waste the country's money nor his own time - he had been elected to other positions for thirty years and never attended one. For desperate Filipinos he is the real thing, the only one, that is why they stick behind him. Is it their choice? It is a tragedy that a country needs a Duterte.

Actually he has a bit of Artie Beetson in him, he almost refuses to wear formal clothes only when forced to and then humbly. He wears casual shirts underneath and whips the formal off the earliest minute possible and makes all his pressers in casual.

Why not engage in those reforms without summarily executing people on the street? It's a dangerous slope, and you're bound to have someone innocent mixed up in it sooner or later. How much is that innocent person's life worth against a country that can't afford due process?

This is what may have occurred to Ozy Damian Berg who was recently released when hotel CCTV cameras contradicted police story. But by then he was already sacked and receiving death threats via mobile so left the country with his Filipina girlfriend.

But I find confusing because of this earlier release about flushing drugs down toilets.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-06-22/australian-man-arrested-in-philippines-for-selling-drugs/7532204

It is supposedly that only those pushers who resist get shot. I have heard first hand of extra-judicial killings of known drug dealers at village level, presumably the killers were informed by the cops or were the cops, or are local vigilante groups. Of course there are going to be innocents killed, it is a bit collateral damage in getting rid of Robbie.

 

[Yossarian]

Has a bit of Artie Beetson in him? We may have a new leader for most ridiculous analogy in forum history…

 

[cktiger]

Has a bit of Artie Beetson in him? We may have **a new leader for most ridiculous analogy in forum history**…

I mentioned earlier in this that BBF may have made the most ridiculous comment in forum history - and then he goes and trumps it in the same thread. :laughing:

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

…......................................

Actually he has a bit of Artie Beetson in him, he almost refuses to wear formal clothes only when forced to and then humbly. He wears casual shirts underneath and whips the formal off the earliest minute possible and makes all his pressers in casual.

Why not engage in those reforms without summarily executing people on the street? It's a dangerous slope, and you're bound to have someone innocent mixed up in it sooner or later. How much is that innocent person's life worth against a country that can't afford due process?

I agree but it is a each way bet under what system more innocents will get killed. The current addicts are killing innocent people around them - they terrorise the neighbour including those closest to them.. their own children. They are paranoid, psychotic etc.. and in most cases without any medical back up like here in OZ. Under Duterte's scenario at least innocent killing "may" come to an end eventually and there some benefit for the killings - the drug trade is being wiped out.

As there is a limit on an individual's presidential shelf life in the Philippines eventually he will be replaced then due process can be re-enforced when the drug problem is hopefully over. Also the judicial street killers can face trial - they took it upon themselves to behave that way even if led astray by the president. If Duterte does re-introduce capital punishment as he is talking about those extra-judicial killers may get their own medicine.

I don't consider any other country has been successful in their quest against drugs. The rich ones have managed to modify the scourge by sweet expensive trappings (rehab. and shoot up rooms) that in no way could be repeated by a poor, struggling country where about half go to bed hungry or malnourished every night.

Someone here earlier mentioned Duterte may be a CIA set up - does not seem so by the article below. On TV the guy swears like all those WT players did after GF win in 2005 - another top analogy for the forum.

**Saturday, October 15, 2016
INQUIRER.NET
“I tend to believe now, that it was God who gave it to me.”\
\
Duterte tells foes: God made me president
By: Gil C. Cabacungan / @inquirerdotnet
Philippine Daily Inquirer / 02:24 AM October 15, 2016**
President Rodrigo Duterte. SIMEON CELI/PPD
Like Job, President Rodrigo Duterte believes that God gives and takes away.
So if God wants him to finish his entire six-year term, it’s tough luck for his opponents. They just have to endure it.
In a speech in Batanes province on Friday, Mr. Duterte talked extensively about how improbable his victory was in May’s presidential election—no financial resources and a national political machinery—and, after 100 days in office, he said, “I tend to believe now, that it was God who gave it to me.”

‘Part of my destiny’
And since he became President due to divine intervention, Mr. Duterte said it was easy for him to brush aside rumors of his imminent exit, either through impeachment or coup d’etat or assassination by the Central Intelligence Agency.
READ: Duterte: ‘Susmaryosep,’ CIA is planning to kill me
“Don’t scare me, you people from Manila with your plan to hold a rally next year and remove me from office. Because if I go, that is part of my destiny. That is what it is so don’t come out in newspapers warning Dutere about a coup d’etat or others,” he said.
“If I become President for just two months or two years, that is part of my destiny, what God gave me. So I just let them threaten me with launching a coup d’etat or people power, these sons of a…,” he said.
“But if I reach six years, you’re all dead,” he added.
As God was his main backer, Mr. Duterte said he owed nothing to anybody, even the “rich” kingmakers who refused to contribute to his campaign until they were sure of his victory.
But by that time, Mr. Duterte said it was too late and he rejected their contributions.
Not new to intrigue
He said he was not new to these kinds of intrigue in office, starting with his more than two decades as Davao City mayor during which time allegations of his ties to liquidation squads hounded him.
He said he got through the worst of what his political rivals, the “yellow,” threw at him in the elections, especially when they realized that he wasn’t going down in the polls before Election Day.
‘Garbage’
He said this was the time when “garbage” like the death squad allegations and Sen. Antonio Trillanes IV’s exposé on billions of pesos allegedly stashed in his undisclosed bank accounts started to come out.
“If I had that much money, you won’t even see me here. At my age of 71, I’d rather travel anywhere,” he said.

Read more: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/825486/duterte-tells-foes-god-made-me-president#ixzz4N8W5IglX
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook
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It is funny because the guy always appear to be an atheist who refused to bend his knee - and blames the Church for overpopulation.

 

[Byron_Bay_Fan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/filipino-philippines-prison-jail-president-rodrigo-duterte-war-on-drugs-a7164006.html?utm_content=buffer8b38c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

this link states how court cases could take years to get through - maybe we should give them refugee status in OZ