Forwards depth

[Guest]

Yep, backrow is the problem. Just lacking a bit of size there in Lawrence and Taylor. Don't mind the starting front row in Woods and Sue. I'd really be pushing Marsters, McCormack and Sirro in the offseason because there's every chance they could get a run next season.

 

[TYGA]

our 2nd row would be one of the weakest in the comp, if not the weakest

Weakest I'd say…The opposition in no particular order:

Broncos: Gillett, Glenn, Thaiday, Pangai Jnr
Cowboys: Cooper, Lowe, Hess
Titans: Proctor, McQueen, Taia
Knights: Buhrer, S Mata'utia, Barnett
Dragons: J Thompson, T Sims, L Leilua
Panthers: Peachey, Cartwright, Grevsmuhl, Fisher-Harris, Yeo (crazy depth)
Raiders: Papalii, Whitehead, Soliola, Tapine
Warriors: B Thompson, R Hoffman, Mannering
Roosters: Cordner, Guerra, Aubusson, P Carter
Souths: Sutton, R Rochow, K Turner
Eels: B Scott, M Ma'u, K Edwards, Moeroa
Manly: M Taupau, L Brown, S Lane
Storm: T Harris, Asofa-Solomona, ? Kaufusi
Dogs: Jackson, Eastwood, Faitala-Mariner
Sharks: Graham, Lewis, L Capewell, T Williams

...The Storm and Manly are weak in the second row as well, although they at least have one strike player each (Taupau for Manly and Harris for the Storm).

We probably have similar money tied up in our second row to some of the above teams it's just being wasted on Sironen and, to a lesser degree, Lawrence who is getting paid more than he delivers as a second rower.

The Storm have Finucane (should be in Origin),Tohu Harris, Asofa Solomona or K Bromwich in the second row. Its close to the best in the competition.

 

[Nelson]

our 2nd row would be one of the weakest in the comp, if not the weakest

Weakest I'd say…The opposition in no particular order:

Broncos: Gillett, Glenn, Thaiday, Pangai Jnr
Cowboys: Cooper, Lowe, Hess
Titans: Proctor, McQueen, Taia
Knights: Buhrer, S Mata'utia, Barnett
Dragons: J Thompson, T Sims, L Leilua
Panthers: Peachey, Cartwright, Grevsmuhl, Fisher-Harris, Yeo (crazy depth)
Raiders: Papalii, Whitehead, Soliola, Tapine
Warriors: B Thompson, R Hoffman, Mannering
Roosters: Cordner, Guerra, Aubusson, P Carter
Souths: Sutton, R Rochow, K Turner
Eels: B Scott, M Ma'u, K Edwards, Moeroa
Manly: M Taupau, L Brown, S Lane
Storm: T Harris, Asofa-Solomona, ? Kaufusi
Dogs: Jackson, Eastwood, Faitala-Mariner
Sharks: Graham, Lewis, L Capewell, T Williams

...The Storm and Manly are weak in the second row as well, although they at least have one strike player each (Taupau for Manly and Harris for the Storm).

We probably have similar money tied up in our second row to some of the above teams it's just being wasted on Sironen and, to a lesser degree, Lawrence who is getting paid more than he delivers as a second rower.

The Storm have Finucane (should be in Origin),Tohu Harris, Asofa Solomona or K Bromwich in the second row. Its close to the best in the competition.

I was limiting it to players I've seen played on an edge over the last year or so. Finucane has exclusively been playing lock for Melbourne and I imagine he'll be playing there next season. They've just lost 60-80 minutes of quality second row coverage in the form of Proctor which they'll have to fill with Asofa Solomona (who has been averaging < 30 mins a game) and/or K Bromwich (~35 mins per game and hasn't just been covering 2nd row but playing lock/prop as required), and then they'll have to back fill those two on the bench. It's going to be interesting to see how much impact the loss of Proctor has on the Storm…

 

[TYGA]

our 2nd row would be one of the weakest in the comp, if not the weakest

Weakest I'd say…The opposition in no particular order:

Broncos: Gillett, Glenn, Thaiday, Pangai Jnr
Cowboys: Cooper, Lowe, Hess
Titans: Proctor, McQueen, Taia
Knights: Buhrer, S Mata'utia, Barnett
Dragons: J Thompson, T Sims, L Leilua
Panthers: Peachey, Cartwright, Grevsmuhl, Fisher-Harris, Yeo (crazy depth)
Raiders: Papalii, Whitehead, Soliola, Tapine
Warriors: B Thompson, R Hoffman, Mannering
Roosters: Cordner, Guerra, Aubusson, P Carter
Souths: Sutton, R Rochow, K Turner
Eels: B Scott, M Ma'u, K Edwards, Moeroa
Manly: M Taupau, L Brown, S Lane
Storm: T Harris, Asofa-Solomona, ? Kaufusi
Dogs: Jackson, Eastwood, Faitala-Mariner
Sharks: Graham, Lewis, L Capewell, T Williams

...The Storm and Manly are weak in the second row as well, although they at least have one strike player each (Taupau for Manly and Harris for the Storm).

We probably have similar money tied up in our second row to some of the above teams it's just being wasted on Sironen and, to a lesser degree, Lawrence who is getting paid more than he delivers as a second rower.

The Storm have Finucane (should be in Origin),Tohu Harris, Asofa Solomona or K Bromwich in the second row. Its close to the best in the competition.

I was limiting it to players I've seen played on an edge over the last year or so. Finucane has exclusively been playing lock for Melbourne and I imagine he'll be playing there next season. They've just lost 60-80 minutes of quality second row coverage in the form of Proctor which they'll have to fill with Asofa Solomona (who has been averaging < 30 mins a game) and/or K Bromwich (~35 mins per game and hasn't just been covering 2nd row but playing lock/prop as required), and then they'll have to back fill those two on the bench. It's going to be interesting to see how much impact the loss of Proctor has on the Storm…

Good point. Proctor is made to look good as Cronk is such a threat running the ball or going behind the lead runner. When Moses gets this under control someone like Idris. Whoever they put in outside Cronk will look good.

 

[stryker]

Storm will miss Proctor. He is a workhorse.
As for our depth…hopefully someone outside the regular 17 steps up this year. Theres plenty of opportunities at this club for a mongrel who has a go.

 

[Nelson]

Weakest I'd say…The opposition in no particular order:

Broncos: Gillett, Glenn, Thaiday, Pangai Jnr
Cowboys: Cooper, Lowe, Hess
Titans: Proctor, McQueen, Taia
Knights: Buhrer, S Mata'utia, Barnett
Dragons: J Thompson, T Sims, L Leilua
Panthers: Peachey, Cartwright, Grevsmuhl, Fisher-Harris, Yeo (crazy depth)
Raiders: Papalii, Whitehead, Soliola, Tapine
Warriors: B Thompson, R Hoffman, Mannering
Roosters: Cordner, Guerra, Aubusson, P Carter
Souths: Sutton, R Rochow, K Turner
Eels: B Scott, M Ma'u, K Edwards, Moeroa
Manly: M Taupau, L Brown, S Lane
Storm: T Harris, Asofa-Solomona, ? Kaufusi
Dogs: Jackson, Eastwood, Faitala-Mariner
Sharks: Graham, Lewis, L Capewell, T Williams

...The Storm and Manly are weak in the second row as well, although they at least have one strike player each (Taupau for Manly and Harris for the Storm).

We probably have similar money tied up in our second row to some of the above teams it's just being wasted on Sironen and, to a lesser degree, Lawrence who is getting paid more than he delivers as a second rower.

The Storm have Finucane (should be in Origin),Tohu Harris, Asofa Solomona or K Bromwich in the second row. Its close to the best in the competition.

I was limiting it to players I've seen played on an edge over the last year or so. Finucane has exclusively been playing lock for Melbourne and I imagine he'll be playing there next season. They've just lost 60-80 minutes of quality second row coverage in the form of Proctor which they'll have to fill with Asofa Solomona (who has been averaging < 30 mins a game) and/or K Bromwich (~35 mins per game and hasn't just been covering 2nd row but playing lock/prop as required), and then they'll have to back fill those two on the bench. It's going to be interesting to see how much impact the loss of Proctor has on the Storm…

Good point. Proctor is made to look good as Cronk is such a threat running the ball or going behind the lead runner. When Moses gets this under control someone like Idris. Whoever they put in outside Cronk will look good.

Over the last 3 years he has averaged:
2014: 30 tackles per game and 1.1 MT
2015: 34 tackles per game and 1.2 MT
2016: 34.8 tackles per game and 1 MT

Compare that to some of the other top second rowers in 2016 like:
Gillett who missed 2.9 tackles per game
Luke Lewis who missed 2.4 tackles per game
Wade Graham who missed 2.8 tackles per game
Aiden Guerra who missed 2.5 tackles per game
Ethan Lowe who missed 2.2 tackles per game
Bodene Thompson who missed 1.8 tackles per game
Beau Scott missed who 1.2 tackles per game (and is noted as a great defensive 2nd rower)

I'm sure some of it has to do with the quality of the defensive structure around Proctor but maintaining stats like that over the course of three years suggests he is a quality defender.

 

[Geo]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

 

[sheer64]

Back row issues will be our downfall

Agree.

 

[jadtiger]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

 

[Geo]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5

So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

 

[happy_tiger]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5
\
\
\
So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

Problem is if you don't put a hand on the attacker its not a missed tackle :laughing:

 

[Nelson]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

2016

Chris Lawrence: 26.6 tackles per game and 2.6 missed tackles
Josh Aloiai: 17.8 tackles per game and 0.9 missed tackles
Curtis Sironen: 23.1 tackles per game and 1.5 missed tackles

Aloiai obviously played much shorter minutes but he only had 3 games where he missed more than 1 tackle (he missed 2 in two games and 5 in one game against the Panthers). He shows some promise defensively and his work rate wasn't bad for the minutes he played.

Lawrence is missing too many tackles for his work rate and his work rate isn't high enough in defence. That might be something that needs to be looked at in our defensive structure - getting the 2nd rowers more involved so that the middle doesn't get gassed as quickly.

 

[jadtiger]

letion rates

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5

So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

Thanks Geo for going to the trouble of extracting that info.

On those stats Lawrence misses 10% and Edwards misses 12% while 2 of the whipping boys have better completion rates Lovett 4-5% and Siro 3-4%.I know this is only part of the picture but any forward even getting close to 10% needs to do an awful lot of work on their technique

 

[Masterton]

letion rates

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5
Thanks Geo for going to the trouble of extracting that info.
So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

On those stats Lawrence misses 10% and Edwards misses 12% while 2 of the whipping boys have better completion rates Lovett 4-5% and Siro 3-4%.I know this is only part of the picture but any forward even getting close to 10% needs to do an awful lot of work on their technique

Sirro has (had?) the best hit and stick in our team. His faults lie elsewhere.

 

[batboy]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5

So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

Meters made re where it gets ugly…
And sprint times over 100m.

 

[happy_tiger]

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5

So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

Meters made re where it gets ugly…
And sprint times over 100m.

Yeah put away the stop watch , pull out the sundial

 

[Nelson]

letion rates

I'd like to see our back row miss tackle stats…

It would make ugly reading unfortunately.However i live in hope it can be turned around in 2017

The curiosity did get the better of me so I looked it up according to nrl.com ave for 2016 per game..

Lawrence made 26.6 missed 2.6
Aloiai made 17.8 missed 0.9
Sironen made 23.5 missed 1.5
Lovett made 25.1 missed 1.1
Taylor made 41.2 missed 2.6
Edwards made 21.8 missed 2.5

So not as ugly as I thought when comparing to the Top backrowers mentioned above

Thanks Geo for going to the trouble of extracting that info.

On those stats Lawrence misses 10% and Edwards misses 12% while 2 of the whipping boys have better completion rates Lovett 4-5% and Siro 3-4%.I know this is only part of the picture but any forward even getting close to 10% needs to do an awful lot of work on their technique

Edwards was defending in the middle for the most part and, like ET, some of his misses came from getting up and making early contact. I don't necessarily have a problem with those kinds of misses in the middle, but they're a major problem on an edge.

 

[yeti]

Edwards is also one of the few in our team that actually hurts when he hits. That's worth something on its own imo.

 

[ricksen]

Lawrence still struggles for 80 quality mins in the back row IMO. He works hard and is generally decent defensively, but come the second half of games, he's often guilty of making terrible reads and arm-grabbing rather than hitting with his shoulder. For a senior guy, he was at fault for too many tries on our own line last year.

Aloiai showed glimpses, but is a world away from a dominant edge forward. He showed some good attacking nous in the back half of the season, but he wasn't reliable in defence at any time - often drawn in far too easily on that right side. Actually having a proper pre-season will help, but we need his development to come along double quick.

Who else is there?
Lovett is barely replacement level, not sure there's much more to give. Probably better suited as a middle mop up defensive forward for 30 odd mins per game than an edge fwd, where he lacks speed and agility.
Edwards mostly played through the middle.
Then you're down to the likes of ET and Sue that are really better served through the middle, and beyond that literally untested kids.

It's a pretty disastrous situation tbh, and can't all be thrown back at the previous administration as all of the guys I've mentioned have been signed or re-signed under the current regime.

 

[tig_prmz]

We have plenty of depth… Unfortunately, half of them are playing NRL most weeks at the Tigers.

What we lack is a quality Starting Pack. Outside of Woods & Taylor, the rest would struggle to make Starting Teams at most NRL Clubs.

Sue and Ava have grown really well in the last 2 years, but I dont see much more coming from them. They are what they are.

Grant serves a role that we still need. Over time, I'm hoping Sue can deliver what Grant brings, but someone needs to starts slapping him around before games so he actually shows this perceived aggression he supposedly has. We still need Grant, but he is on old legs?!

Lawrence has grown also in the last 2 years into his backrow spot. He is very consistent, does his job but still lacks an X Factor that a Backrower should bring 1-2 times a game.

Garlic Mayo is a good kid who played well last year for a rookie. Now I feel he will become a brilliant edge forward, but to be classed as Quality he is 1-2 years off.

All these blokes never seem to let us down except for the occasional lack of concentration from time to time. But they simply dont get the job done week to week which is required at NRL Level.

Greame is correct!

Well said, but I think we are following an old Wayne Bennett model where he chooses to spend money on backs and not on forwards. Teams like Raiders, Cronulla, Bulldogs must pay a fortune for their forwards.