Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[cochise]

I look at this way, does anyone seriously thinks that if we had Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett this season with our roster & back office staff that they would of coached the squad into the top 8 this season?

Who in the "back office staff" are you blaming?

I'm still not sold on the barber.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Who's the barber?

A position in the bubble and long term at the COE. You know giving the boys their haircuts. Blame the barber.

I'm still confused how we don't have a halves coach but have a barber. Any hoo were apparently improving.

i'd say spending a couple of hundred on a barber a week is a little cheaper than the halves coach. I'd like to see us get Matty Johns in to work with the halves though.

Cheaper yes. I just thought you would fill the important roles first.

We did try to get Daley into a role but the NRL knocked us back.

 

[gallagher]

I look at this way, does anyone seriously thinks that if we had Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett this season with our roster & back office staff that they would of coached the squad into the top 8 this season?

Who in the "back office staff" are you blaming?

I'm still not sold on the barber.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Who's the barber?

A position in the bubble and long term at the COE. You know giving the boys their haircuts. Blame the barber.

I'm still confused how we don't have a halves coach but have a barber. Any hoo were apparently improving.

i'd say spending a couple of hundred on a barber a week is a little cheaper than the halves coach. I'd like to see us get Matty Johns in to work with the halves though.

Cheaper yes. I just thought you would fill the important roles first.

We did try to get Daley into a role but the NRL knocked us back.

Which surprises me that we didn't go get someone else

 

[Spartan117]

Mate he’s done a poor job, we’ve regressed under him. The results speak for themselves.

I don't think we have regressed under Madge.

This is unfortunately what the Wests Tigers are for the most part of our 20 Year history.

Its tough to take but the truth is that the club is Mediocre at best, We are bullied and not respected by by the Administration and our opponents...

Madge is working hard to weed out the deadwood and bad attitude players. It is the only way we will ever be a Melbourne style club that we must become.

 

[Harvey]

What do we need to see next year to be convinced Madge is the man for the job?

I believe that we are in real danger of getting the spoon.

Next year I am looking for smarter selection and bench rotation, the youngsters to improve and be given more game time and our defence to be a hell of a lot better. I am not convinced that I will see any of that & think that Madge could be under real pressure next year.

 

[Needaname]

I’d say a whole preseason of a team engineered to work together I would think we will have a much more coherent defensive unit.
It’s obvious that this year we had forces of mass pulling in all different directions. But if you look closely enough you can see improvement and commitment from players that are on board for the long haul.
I’m not sure that is limited to just the playing group.
Trent Barrett has been highly credited for his influence on Penrith this year but his not the head coach, so what is Ivan doing to ‘coach’ the team? A head coach is the overseer, but his not always the tactical genius.

 

[watersider]

Our defense has fallen away badly lately. I think we just can't sustain the intensity given our lack of success. You see that in bad sides at the end of seasons. Look at St.George getting flogged, same with Manly against the Titans even. And Des after the game had nothing, no intensity or concern. It's just that they're essentially competing for nothing, their beaten down by the season and it's not happening. So I don't put that on Madge as much as the way the season has panned out. But it's not good and I expect it to improve.

I can't really offer an explanation of our defense Ellery, I've commented before on the way our tackling looks really sloppy and we can't slow the play the ball. When you're in that situation you're going to concede points and defense will look ugly. So are they getting coached badly or are they simply not talented and physically capable enough players? I think the latter, but we'll see.

 

[Aesopian]

What do we need to see next year to be convinced Madge is the man for the job?

I believe that we are in real danger of getting the spoon.

Next year I am looking for smarter selection and bench rotation, the youngsters to improve and be given more game time and our defence to be a hell of a lot better. I am not convinced that I will see any of that & think that Madge could be under real pressure next year.

It's always darkest before the light. Madge is the 1st HC I've seen of ours to really promote youth over the quick fix signings. Lots of upside with the players we have coming through.

Outside of Sheens, you could say each previous coach failed miserably in that regard and left the squad in worse shape than what they inherited. Madge is clearly focused on building a team that will compete every season rather than the odd smokey finals appearance every now and then.

Realistically our squad hasn't been competitive for 10 yrs. And there's no quick fix or shortcut in changing that.
And some say we've regressed this year, but regressed from what? We've missed the 8 for a decade. It's ingrained and needs to be hammered out.

 

[jirskyr]

There is not another coach in the competition who has so much money tied up in the wrong players.Until it is rectified we are are going to be handicapped. And please don't bring up JT because his roster at the time would run rings around this one. The one thing I think Maguire can lament is BJ - a risk that hasn't paid off at this point.

What about the roster was better? We had Tedesco, that’s it. We also had Lovett, Rankin, Buchanan, Milone, Edwards etc.If I took your post back in time to 2016, people would be splitting their sides.


The value of Teddy to any team is immeasurable - we would be a much better team with him now. Brooks played twice as good with Teddy at the back. We had some go forward with Woods and Tapau ( whom Taylor let go for Balin) JAC Simona and Moses for speed and the nucleus of decent spine to play behind and draw other players to the club - even with the plodders.

Taupau was not here in 2016. Moses was a rookie who was on par with Brooks now. Simona wasn’t better than our current centres. current centres JAC played all of 5 games.

With the job Payten and Holbrook are doing, I wouldn’t have thought any of Maguire’s defenders would have the hide to complain about his cattle.

Simona was a great centre and at one point our winning record was dependant on when he played
JAC only player when he did because Rankin was selected ahead of him. But you can't ignore the Teddy factor and his value to the team or any team
I will defend Maguire while our cap is the mess it's in. As I have said numerous time I can't see one other team in the comp that has there highest money earners as their worst contributers. When that is corrected he will be judged like all other coaches - by results. I will add the Titans pack would eat ours up and spit them out - no surprise at all how Holbrook has got them going.
As for Payten - "jobs for the boys, whiteanter" -
we could have had him, no problem with me.

Hate to break it to you, but all bar Reynolds and Packer, this is Madge’s team. He’s signed them all.

You are not breaking anything to me. Reynolds and Packer are two of our highest earners and yet they contribute squat. It's a massive handicap and no good for balance. The players know what they are on while they cop the hidings for poor performances - these two can barely make the run on squad yet take home the big bucks.

Sorry, but it’s a cop out. Payten has had half his squad go back to NZ, and is using scraps from other clubs, and they are competing every week. But that doesn’t compare to poor Madge who has to deal with 2 players who are overpaid.

I've said this before but the Warriors example is hard to apply compared to the Tigers. Yes Payten is doing OK with the backs-to-wall situation of the Warriors, and I appreciate they've made huge personal sacrifice to play 2020 and stay competitive.

YET
(a) Warriors aren't tearing up the table, they are just putting in respectable efforts.
(b) Warriors have a few elite-level talent still playing to their ability, both before and after Payten joined - RTS, Tohu Harris. Nikorima is doing alright.
(c) Could Payten have kept up the form over 2 seasons? Because if you take a snapshot of any Tigers season, e.g. Cleary first 6 rounds 2018, you'll find a team that periodically is very very competitive.
(d) Maybe Warriors have shored up precisely because of the situation they find themselves in, banded together with limited distractions away from home, some loan players busting their butts for a new contract etc.

 

[jirskyr]

It's very weird that we let Matterson go without a proper compensation. I am thinking we may have been negligent in duty of care and didn't want to risk Matterson taking any legal action. It's either that or we are the dumbest club in the comp for letting our best player go without any compensation.

The compensation was not having to pay Matterson a dollar for season 2020, whereas if they protracted it they would have had to pay his salary for however many months it took to find a new player, for him to kick up a stink during pre-season and not contribute to a winning culture at the club.

Also they spent the money on Luciano, so sometimes the compensation is not a direct swap, but what you are able to do when the player is gone.

 

[jirskyr]

Our defense has fallen away badly lately. I think we just can't sustain the intensity given our lack of success. You see that in bad sides at the end of seasons. Look at St.George getting flogged, same with Manly against the Titans even. And Des after the game had nothing, no intensity or concern. It's just that they're essentially competing for nothing, their beaten down by the season and it's not happening. So I don't put that on Madge as much as the way the season has panned out. But it's not good and I expect it to improve.

I can't really offer an explanation of our defense Ellery, I've commented before on the way our tackling looks really sloppy and we can't slow the play the ball. When you're in that situation you're going to concede points and defense will look ugly. So are they getting coached badly or are they simply not talented and physically capable enough players? I think the latter, but we'll see.

That was going to be my comment too. I was v disappointed in the Storm result but it's very hard to make long-term assessments of the team based on a handful of matches when the players knew they were not playing finals football and certain players are never playing again for the club.

Not that it is an excuse, it's just hard to compare a team who were almost back to full compliment and playing hard in prep for finals football, versus a team that have basically been out of the running since they lost to Warriors several rounds ago. And it's hard to say what to do with that lower side when they haven't anything to lift for.

Because it's all well and good to point at Titans and Bulldogs and say "they are currently having a dig", cool, but that didn't save either of their previous coaches and didn't get them anywhere near finals football in 2020. Having a dig for 24 rounds is the aim, not a choice-selected 5 or 6 rounds.

Manly is the real side I want to look at. Very experienced coach, played semis last year (2 of the last 3 years); basically have 2 x million-dollar players on their books. I know Turbo has missed most of the season but objectively you'd say they have enough talent to play finals footy. But here are Manly falling right away, even getting run down by Wests of all sides, then lapped by Titans.

Des Hasler can clearly coach but what's happened to his side, where is their heart?

 

[Rugba]

I’ll start off they still need to extend madge for stability , show players that they don’t run the joint , also I don’t see any great coaches available .
As to the WT issues
I think first part of season after covid break flattered they tigers , I think they along with the eels were far superior fit to rest of the comp and now rest of comp has legs in them these sides are getting found out
I also think madge will have learnt from this year , I think he was too intense and too critical in press conferences , you have to have the players wanting to play with you , Bellamy gets away with his demeanour as players know he is a winner , and his main players responded to that style so the rest follow
I also think Cleary had the right idea with the flops he had signed , you build the club with hard heads in the side and then you can bring the young guys through (Penrith the exception ) look at the donkeys with their youth policy in the forwards , look how Newcastle improved once they bought hard heads into the side , same with eels in the way he has built their forward pack . The tigers pack is too young and will always suffer over course of a season

 

[Yossarian]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

 

[tiger05premier]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

We still have some pain to go through but we are definitely heading in the right direction

 

[TheDaBoss]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

We make top 8 next year 💯💯💯

 

[twentyforty]

I look at this way, does anyone seriously thinks that if we had Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett this season with our roster & back office staff that they would of coached the squad into the top 8 this season?

Who in the "back office staff" are you blaming?

I'm still not sold on the barber.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Who's the barber?

A position in the bubble and long term at the COE. You know giving the boys their haircuts. Blame the barber.

I'm still confused how we don't have a halves coach but have a barber. Any hoo were apparently improving.

The board has only recently authorised an increase in the training budget. What they do with that is anyone’s guess?

 

[TheDaBoss]

I look at this way, does anyone seriously thinks that if we had Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett this season with our roster & back office staff that they would of coached the squad into the top 8 this season?

Who in the "back office staff" are you blaming?

I'm still not sold on the barber.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Who's the barber?

A position in the bubble and long term at the COE. You know giving the boys their haircuts. Blame the barber.

I'm still confused how we don't have a halves coach but have a barber. Any hoo were apparently improving.


The board has only recently authorised an increase in the training budget. What they do with that is anyone’s guess?

Pathways and Development?

 

[twentyforty]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

Agree Yoss. You get some squirming when you cut off the head of a snake.

 

[twentyforty]

I look at this way, does anyone seriously thinks that if we had Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett this season with our roster & back office staff that they would of coached the squad into the top 8 this season?

Who in the "back office staff" are you blaming?

I'm still not sold on the barber.

Sorry mate, I don't get it. Who's the barber?

A position in the bubble and long term at the COE. You know giving the boys their haircuts. Blame the barber.

I'm still confused how we don't have a halves coach but have a barber. Any hoo were apparently improving.


The board has only recently authorised an increase in the training budget. What they do with that is anyone’s guess?

Pathways and Development?

Development of juniors? Or specialised skills training for top 30?

 

[Cairnstigers]

I’d say a whole preseason of a team engineered to work together I would think we will have a much more coherent defensive unit.
It’s obvious that this year we had forces of mass pulling in all different directions. But if you look closely enough you can see improvement and commitment from players that are on board for the long haul.
I’m not sure that is limited to just the playing group.
Trent Barrett has been highly credited for his influence on Penrith this year but his not the head coach, so what is Ivan doing to ‘coach’ the team? A head coach is the overseer, but his not always the tactical genius.

It would be great to see the Panthers regress next year
It would say alot about Ivans ability as a coach
Especially if Barrett does well at the dogs

 

[crazycat]

I’m a Madge fan. He’s the first coach we’ve had for sometime who can see the systemic issues the club has and is prepared to make tough calls. No more sweetheart deals for rusted on players, no more accepting inconsistency and mediocrity.

We’ve gone backwards this year? Fine. Personally I’d rather run 10th or worse for a couple of years if it means a top 4 team in a few years time. Finishing 9th repeatedly, being vaguely competitive, bring on the cusp of 8th with zero prospects of being a title contender? Had enough of that.

I agree. But I also think we need to frontload some players.
If we come 10th-11th, who cares. When that means the next year we have say 80% of James Tamou's contract payed then we can seriously goto market.