Help me (and others) keep faith in Madge...

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

Well if you know more enlighten your fellow forum members ?
It played out terrible !!!!

 

[ElleryHanley]

been saying this for a while now whhhhyyyyy are we still focused on this year when the seasons been over for weeks
**why did our style completely change when benji came back,we were all about defense after he got dropped**

10000% this...

Madge was going on about being a tough team...D minded...

Dropped Benji and said players need to tackle...

Then brought him back...and no one has played good D since.

I just don't know what happened to the Madge of rounds 1 to 6 and the Madge of the past two months. It is like his whole philosophy went out the window.

Maybe he has just run out of ideas and speeches, but the 'current' Madge has coached terribly.

 

[cochise]

To those defending Madge, I appreciate the posts and I 'want' to believe...

But can anyone answer the following:

1. What is our defensive structure? They just seem to rush up and that is it. No cohesion at all. Airport lane holes have been there all year without any adjustment. Surely the coach had to react?

More importantly...and this is what concerns me the most...there seems to be absolutely ZERO attempt to get our spine ready for 2021. This period was a crucial chance to try a few things. Instead we got the ancient mariners who are not even wanted for 2021.

We are almost in October 2020 and our 2021 spine is:
1. no one knows
6 and 7 brooks will be one / no one has a clue who the other will be / massive concern.
9. Liddle / Simpkins

Penrith used their dead rubber games to experiment in 2019 and it helped them start 2020 well and build. Madge has done absolutely nothing to use this time to get a head start on 2021.

Here me out .. what if that was a game to showcase potential suitors of our dead wood.

Mate the defence is crap for 2 reasons . The middles don’t put their body in front , and the down benjis side don’t seem to trust each other . Ie. trust that the person can make the 1 on 1 stop. You watch brooks’ side . This used to happen to him all the time . Line breaks galore . Then he got his technique sorted , and they leave him to make the tackle . It doesn’t work all the time , as nothing is perfect , but if you trust your inside man , you can slide onto the shape forming in front of you , as if the ball player hits the under run , the bloke inside has that covered . It’s about trust and intent. There’s no trust , which leads to lack of intent , as you’re on the back foot thinking way too much .

If it was a showcase...then the show was very ugly.

Reality is any team after Reynolds and Packer would know by now what they offer / what they don't offer.

IMO it should have been used to get some rookies and kids game time. Build some combos for 2021.

I don't like setting kids up for failure and putting them into a losing side when they haven't played any football since February is asking too much in my opinion. Get them training in their roles and give them the preseason to and trials to get ready for their debuts.

Valid points.

Who do you see as our spine in 2021 mate?

Mate that is the million $ question, it is looking like Brooks at 7, Liddle at 9 and Mbye at 1. The 6 is what I think is really up in the air with it being between Reynolds, Walters and Madden with Doueihi a smaller possibility. My personal preference would be to give Madden the trials to see how he goes.

Looks that way. I can't see that spine getting a team to the finals though.

Hoping for JAC and / or Burton.

I think JAC will be here but is likely to be on the wing. I don't see us getting anyone in the halves.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

We will have a much better idea of Madge next year.

With our recruitment we need him to nurture, develop and improve young players.

Looking at Mikaele, Talau and others I am not convinced he can.

Mikaele is going backwards.

I believe Mikaele is playing injured. He is also very young for a prop.

 

[cochise]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

Well if you know more enlighten your fellow forum members ?
It played out terrible !!!!

It played out terrible in the media, but how did it get into the media? What is the spin that was placed on it because of the source? That all changes how I perceive what happened.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

**Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.**
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

Why do people continue to ignore that we are playing in a reformatted competition where speed, size and athletic ability are more determinant of a team's outcome.

Every WT supporter knows that not all of our players are suited to this style and unfortunately it shows. No offence but probably only Brooks, Nofo, Grant, Liddle, AJ(on his day), Aloiai and a couple of others are but even they're still struggling to adapt due to overall strength/quality of the team.

Nofoaluma got absolutely burnt by JAC in his long distance effort. In about five metres Nofoaluma resorted to a last ditch dive. That is the stark difference, one can finish from anywhere on the field with half chances becoming tries.

 

[Blacknwhite]

We will have a much better idea of Madge next year.

With our recruitment we need him to nurture, develop and improve young players.

Looking at Mikaele, Talau and others I am not convinced he can.

Mikaele is going backwards.

Mikalele can be a different player, stint to stint, game to game. He is 22. Dont let his size fool you, he is just a kid. Mikalele is another victim of our system leaning on an apprentice to do a tradesmans job.

We can all rattle off a bunch of props who were freaks at 20-22, but that isnt the standard by any means.

 

[sleeve]

Tiger Dave you are spot on.

 

[Strider]

Our only forward who I would say has improved under Madge is Aloae (spelling). Most seem to be going backwards. I'm not sure what Madges strength is yet in coaching, doesn't seem defense, attack, forwards or coaching halves. But we shall see I guess in a few years

 

[TheDaBoss]

Weekly madge bash thread

 

[cktiger]

Let's be brutally honest about this year.
Our best player was a reserve grader we got on loan.
We had over $2 million of cap money (Packer, McQueen, Reynolds) being totally wasted.
Our pack boasts maybe 2 or 3 blokes who would get in another top 17.
We have 3 useless halfbacks.
Our outside backs would get maybe 3 starters in another top 17.
We have no real standout or star - we are relying on glimpses from an overcooked 35 year old.
Thank god for Madge - we really should have been fighting out the spoon.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Weekly madge bash thread

The criticism is deserved. At the start of the season he marketed us as a defensively driven team. For the second half of the season opposition teams are averaging 33 points per game and our f/a is -129. We haven’t held a team to less than 20 points once.

A lot of coaches would be sacked for having those sort of stats.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

Well if you know more enlighten your fellow forum members ?
It played out terrible !!!!

It played out terrible in the media, but how did it get into the media? What is the spin that was placed on it because of the source? That all changes how I perceive what happened.

The source would of made nil difference if the Coach once making his decision has an honest frank conversation with the player,

This is the coaches responsibility as it’s their decision.

The club now has reacted to this by offering a job because of the fall out, not that I have any issue with this as long as tabled as per NRL guidelines prior to the offer.

 

[cochise]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

Well if you know more enlighten your fellow forum members ?
It played out terrible !!!!

It played out terrible in the media, but how did it get into the media? What is the spin that was placed on it because of the source? That all changes how I perceive what happened.

The source would of made nil difference if the Coach once making his decision has an honest frank conversation with the player,

This is the coaches responsibility as it’s their decision.

The club now has reacted to this by offering a job because of the fall out, not that I have any issue with this as long as tabled as per NRL guidelines prior to the offer.

That conversation has happened as Benji has been informed he will not be playing at Wests Tigers in 2021.

 

[hsvjones]

Let's be brutally honest about this year.
Our best player was a reserve grader we got on loan.
We had over $2 million of cap money (Packer, McQueen, Reynolds) being totally wasted.
Our pack boasts maybe 2 or 3 blokes who would get in another top 17.
We have 3 useless halfbacks.
Our outside backs would get maybe 3 starters in another top 17.
We have no real standout or star - we are relying on glimpses from an overcooked 35 year old.
Thank god for Madge - we really should have been fighting out the spoon.

Exactly my point.... The roster we have is very average and should be down in bottom 4 but Madge has done an excellent job with what he has been given. Been saying it for a while but give him 2 more years and been able to move on the rubbish and he will become our long term coach.
Our so called fans are putting petitions up to resign a 36 years old who cannot defend say it all... Time to let go of the has beens and make his club stronger..

 

[Tigerbuck63]

To me he looks like a coach who has run out of ideas. From the point he went postal in the dressing room and abused a chair, he has been struggling. I also think the so called “honesty” session has thrown him as well. I sought of thought that player communication was an area where he excelled and to be publicly called out on it may be bit confronting? He is desperate to shed some players and bring some new talent which is fair enough. I hope it works for him because after that, I am not sure what he’ll do?

I think we should all just hold our nerve. We didn’t achieve this level of mediocrity in 5 minutes, so why should we expect to turn it around in 5 minutes. Our older, more experienced hang abouts are not living up to their price tags. And are certainly not showing any quality leadership for younger players. They will be gone over the next 2 seasons along with our precious goal of finishing ninth. This level of mediocrity has taken nine seasons to establish.

Madge is in his 2nd season and things have actually gone backwards.
When I rate this season compared to last we seem a very ill disciplined side as another din bin last night!
His communication very poor with Benji and lacks leadership qualities, difficult conversation I agree but harps in about standards and needs to set the benchmark himself.
Agree needs more time personally I give him two years but he also needs to mature and get better himself if has the same expectations of the squad.

It is very hard to have that conversation when it is already splashed over the papers the day before the scheduled meeting.

He had made the decision, someone around him was in the know and leaked it. when confronted by Benji from reports said give me 24 hours to think it over. I am assuming Benji told Manager and story was leaked??

Conversation should have been this is my decision moving forward and the reasons why when confronted. Leadership nil sane as what we have on the field.

There is one thing about all the articles about Madge that I can't reconcile. Apparently he is too tough on the players, I have know a lot of tough managers and coaches over the years and not one of them had trouble having a tough conversation. In fact most of them were much too blunt and weren't able to deliver bad news in a manner that didn't get people offside.

I really don’t read into how tough he is on the players as long as it’s also balanced for the welfare of whole team.

We are talking about how Madge managed the Benji situation and it was pretty poor.

I do agree with the decision but not how if was mis managed and the way he found out.

If you talk the talk you need to have conversations that are transparent and timing of these is also critical.

Madge mis managed this process that also effects the culture of the club.

I don't think it played out the way it you think it did.

Well if you know more enlighten your fellow forum members ?
It played out terrible !!!!

It played out terrible in the media, but how did it get into the media? What is the spin that was placed on it because of the source? That all changes how I perceive what happened.

The source would of made nil difference if the Coach once making his decision has an honest frank conversation with the player,

This is the coaches responsibility as it’s their decision.

The club now has reacted to this by offering a job because of the fall out, not that I have any issue with this as long as tabled as per NRL guidelines prior to the offer.

That conversation has happened as Benji has been informed he will not be playing at Wests Tigers in 2021.

Are you sure you don’t work for the club in some capacity? if not your getting tiresome to debate with as your counter point abilities just go back and forth with little real outcome.

Think I will pass conversing with you in future do me the favour and don’t reply to any future posts either, cheers

 

[mike]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

It’s a nice thought but tearing up $1.6M is not easy. The contract is between two parties, it’s much easier to have bravado and say than to actually execute. We have to be patient and accept that not much will change in 2021, 2022 is a different story.

 

[Tigerbuck63]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

It’s a nice thought but tearing up $1.6M is not easy. The contract is between two parties, it’s much easier to have bravado and say than to actually execute. We have to be patient and accept that not much will change in 2021, 2022 is a different story.

Nice to know what the plan actually is but everything around the back end of the season is dealing with bush fires.

It’s a nothing statement last night by Madge about players no longer with club next season unless you elaborate or had discussions already considering the Benji debacle.

It just feeds media a story to write about without being factual and does not add to team culture.

Personally all it does is deflect the performance of the teams effort last night and the coach!!!

 

[TheDaBoss]

Weekly madge bash thread

The criticism is deserved. At the start of the season he marketed us as a defensively driven team. For the second half of the season opposition teams are averaging 33 points per game and our f/a is -129. We haven’t held a team to less than 20 points once.

A lot of coaches would be sacked for having those sort of stats.

the funny thing is its been the opposite

out attacks been better

 

[mike]

I think WT really have to muscle up and start to demonstrate they're not going to continue as a soft touch. Tear up the contracts of players not performing inc the high priced ones- pay them out and get rid of them.Take the NRL to court over the Farah penalty amount- he has not taken it up to date and probably wont now. Our early release of Corey Thompson has bitten us but I can only assume somewhere in the background WT were supposed to get a backline player but that didnt eventuate. Matterson's release without compensation and the obvious Parra meddling. If Bankwest / Parra Stadium is not working out rip it up - we did it because ANZ stadium was going to be torn down. State Govt reversed decision on that so why should we be bound to a ground situation forced on us? And for gods sake pick a home ground.

The coach has a plan to turn things around with getting youth pipeline working and gradually ridding the deadwood- both players and coaching / support staff. I'm for giving Maguire 2 more years to actually be able to judge him in the final year or two when most of the 30 man roster is his and the salary cap can truely be matched against coach / team roster / team performance / club performance and strategy..

It’s a nice thought but tearing up $1.6M is not easy. The contract is between two parties, it’s much easier to have bravado and say than to actually execute. We have to be patient and accept that not much will change in 2021, 2022 is a different story.

Nice to know what the plan actually is but everything around the back end of the season is dealing with bush fires.

It’s a nothing statement last night by Madge about players no longer with club next season unless you elaborate or had discussions already considering the Benji debacle.

It just feeds media a story to write about without being factual and does not add to team culture.

Personally all it does is deflect the performance of the teams effort last night and the coach!!!

Until Packer & Reynolds leave, not much will change. Hopefully we get JAC and Tamou turns out to be a great buy. Other than that that’s probably all that will happen in 2021, apart from signing on a few players on minimal contracts.