Human diet + lifestyle

jirskyr said:
Not wanting to start an argument, but didn't you start another thread asking if something like 15 schooners before dinner was too much?

I don't understand the mentality of being really strict on diet if you consistently consume that much alcohol. Alcohol would be the first thing I'd kick if I wanted to be more healthy because it puts a big load on your liver.

I also would worry about your blood tests if you don't eat any veges or fruits. I am not a doctor or a dietician, and I couldn't be arsed to look it up, but I would suspect you can't properly supply your body needs with just meat and no greens. E.g. where do you get your fibre from?

I am of the opinion that most diets are too extreme and eating a balance in moderation, with smaller portions and increased exercise, is what the research always falls back to.
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At the beginning it felt strict but now it's just normal
 
Odessa said:
Have a look at professor David Oakes and the science behind carbs and the browning of the human organs fats and proteins don't brown the organs and don't accumulate in the joins less arthritis

And red meat is the perfect food for the human body
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Red meat is one of the foods, not the only one.

E.g. red meat contains no fibre. Pretty sure high red meat consumption also linked to higher rates of cancer like bowel.

Humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years eating whatever was available, one of the keys to our success.

Of course if you are talking highly-refined carbs then they are not good for you. But complex unprocessed carbs in moderation?
 
jirskyr said:
Well balanced comments.

As you say main issue with diet research is the lack of design quality and consistency. It's very expensive to do research and you ar probably relying on grants rather than corporate money to fund diet research.

Then of course if you do have corporate funding they almost certainly have an angle and a vested interest in the outcome.

Lastly a lot of comments in this thread about personal experience, which unfortunately is very very unreliable. Fine for a pub chat but it's called "anecdotal evidence" for a reason.
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Agreed and more.

When I have been reading anything from gut researchers. They are saying each persons gut biome is totally different. They are finding that one type of Pro-biotic does wonders for some people, nothing for others and harmful for some.

Meaning in our guts, were wildly different.
Yes "anecdotal evidence" can vary a lot, but everything I am reading on diet seems wildly different to everything else on diet. I suspect we haven't discovered a key linking understanding yet that will explain why one person acts one way and another totally different.

The one thing I really wish we would do is fund the CSIRO a lot more. They are batting WAY above the average as far as scientific discoveries go and do awesome work. In so many ways their discoveries make society a better place and I reckon they would crack the gut code (or maybe cure cancer or give us wings or something).
 
Can anyone recommend any books regarding carnivore diet ?
I have read alot online but would love to go straight to some trusted sources to begin a transition.

I have been on a health journey for the last 2 years and lost 22 kgs with eating better, walking and doing F45 4 times a week and now at age 46 feel as good as i did in my early 30s however i feel i have hit a plateau and want to try something new.

Any recommendations would be appreciated.
 
jirskyr said:
Red meat is one of the foods, not the only one.

E.g. red meat contains no fibre. Pretty sure high red meat consumption also linked to higher rates of cancer like bowel.

Humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years eating whatever was available, one of the keys to our success.

Of course if you are talking highly-refined carbs then they are not good for you. But complex unprocessed carbs in moderation?
Click to expand...
There is something in red meat that acts like fiber I can not remember the name of it ...I was watching it the other week also in the same video talking about Vitamin C levels

But humans are best on meat
 
jirskyr said:
Red meat is one of the foods, not the only one.

E.g. red meat contains no fibre. Pretty sure high red meat consumption also linked to higher rates of cancer like bowel.

Humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years eating whatever was available, one of the keys to our success.

Of course if you are talking highly-refined carbs then they are not good for you. But complex unprocessed carbs in moderation?
Click to expand...
If you get time watch this


 
jirskyr said:
Red meat is one of the foods, not the only one.

E.g. red meat contains no fibre. Pretty sure high red meat consumption also linked to higher rates of cancer like bowel.

Humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years eating whatever was available, one of the keys to our success.

Of course if you are talking highly-refined carbs then they are not good for you. But complex unprocessed carbs in moderation?
Click to expand...
And red meat doesn't give you cancer

If you have a look at 7th day Aventis church

They fund alot of those studies

They believe that if they get everyone to eat vegtables no meat Jesus will return and save everyone

I put that up there with Tom Cruises religion that aliens kidnapped Jesus in a B52 bomber
 
Odessa said:
If you get time watch this


Click to expand...
If you get time, read a few of these and see if there are consistent ideas or results being proposed:

Sivasubramanian et al, Comprehensive Review of Red Meat Consumption and the Risk of Cancer. Cureus 2023.

Comprehensive Review of Red Meat Consumption and the Risk of Cancer - PMC

Red and processed meat consumption rates are increasing in the United States. In this review, we present the current evidence that links red meat consumption and cancer development. A literature search was conducted in the PubMed and Google Scholar ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Farvid et al, Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies. Eur J Epidemiol 2021.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies - PubMed

Red meat and processed meat consumption has been hypothesized to increase risk of cancer, but the evidence is inconsistent. We performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies to summarize the evidence of associations between consumption of red meat (unprocessed), processed...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ma and Qi, Red Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk: A Systematic Analysis of Global Data. Foods 2023.

Red Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk: A Systematic Analysis of Global Data - PMC

The association between red meat consumption and cancer risk remains a controversy. In this study, we systematically collected and analyzed global data (from Our World in Data and Global Cancer Observatory) to investigate this association for the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Aykan, Red Meat and Colorectal Cancer. Oncol Rev. 2015

Red Meat and Colorectal Cancer - PMC

Colorectal cancer (CRC) is the third most common cancer in men and the second in women worldwide. More than half of cases occur in more developed countries. The consumption of red meat (beef, pork, lamb, veal, mutton) is high in developed countries ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Diallo et al, Red and processed meat intake and cancer risk: Results from the prospective NutriNet-Santé cohort study. Int J Cancer 2015.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Red and processed meat intake and cancer risk: Results from the prospective NutriNet-Santé cohort study - PubMed

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (WHO-IARC) classified red meat and processed meat as probably carcinogenic and carcinogenic for humans, respectively. These conclusions were mainly based on studies concerning colorectal cancer, but scientific evidence is still limited for other...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lippi et al, Meat consumption and cancer risk: a critical review of published meta-analyses. Crit Rev Oncol Hematol 2016.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Meat consumption and cancer risk: a critical review of published meta-analyses - PubMed

Dietary habits play a substantial role for increasing or reducing cancer risk. We performed a critical review of scientific literature, to describe the findings of meta-analyses that explored the association between meat consumption and cancer risk. Overall, 42 eligible meta-analyses were...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Kim, The association between red, processed and white meat consumption and risk of pancreatic cancer: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Cancer Causes Control 2023.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The association between red, processed and white meat consumption and risk of pancreatic cancer: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies - PubMed

Findings from this meta-analysis suggested that high consumption of red meat and white meat is associated with an increased risk of pancreatic cancer. Future prospective studies are warranted to confirm the association between meat consumption and the risk of pancreatic cancer.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

See unlike the youtube videos these are academic papers and not monetised - and that is not to say that there is zero question about the funding or intent of the authors, but I took a random cross-section of papers by researchers in different countries and different journals, many of which are meta-analyses (i.e. analyse multiple studies at once, not just one study). You might get grants and bragging rights for publishing to journals but you aren't selling ad content via youtube. There's no T-shirts or merch at pubmed.
 
jirskyr said:
If you get time, read a few of these and see if there are consistent ideas or results being proposed:

Sivasubramanian et al, Comprehensive Review of Red Meat Consumption and the Risk of Cancer. Cureus 2023.

Comprehensive Review of Red Meat Consumption and the Risk of Cancer - PMC

Red and processed meat consumption rates are increasing in the United States. In this review, we present the current evidence that links red meat consumption and cancer development. A literature search was conducted in the PubMed and Google Scholar ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Farvid et al, Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies. Eur J Epidemiol 2021.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Consumption of red meat and processed meat and cancer incidence: a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies - PubMed

Red meat and processed meat consumption has been hypothesized to increase risk of cancer, but the evidence is inconsistent. We performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of prospective studies to summarize the evidence of associations between consumption of red meat (unprocessed), processed...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ma and Qi, Red Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk: A Systematic Analysis of Global Data. Foods 2023.

Red Meat Consumption and Cancer Risk: A Systematic Analysis of Global Data - PMC

The association between red meat consumption and cancer risk remains a controversy. In this study, we systematically collected and analyzed global data (from Our World in Data and Global Cancer Observatory) to investigate this association for the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Aykan, Red Meat and Colorectal Cancer. Oncol Rev. 2015

Red Meat and Colorectal Cancer - PMC

Colorectal cancer (CRC) is the third most common cancer in men and the second in women worldwide. More than half of cases occur in more developed countries. The consumption of red meat (beef, pork, lamb, veal, mutton) is high in developed countries ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Diallo et al, Red and processed meat intake and cancer risk: Results from the prospective NutriNet-Santé cohort study. Int J Cancer 2015.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Red and processed meat intake and cancer risk: Results from the prospective NutriNet-Santé cohort study - PubMed

The International Agency for Research on Cancer (WHO-IARC) classified red meat and processed meat as probably carcinogenic and carcinogenic for humans, respectively. These conclusions were mainly based on studies concerning colorectal cancer, but scientific evidence is still limited for other...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Lippi et al, Meat consumption and cancer risk: a critical review of published meta-analyses. Crit Rev Oncol Hematol 2016.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Meat consumption and cancer risk: a critical review of published meta-analyses - PubMed

Dietary habits play a substantial role for increasing or reducing cancer risk. We performed a critical review of scientific literature, to describe the findings of meta-analyses that explored the association between meat consumption and cancer risk. Overall, 42 eligible meta-analyses were...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Kim, The association between red, processed and white meat consumption and risk of pancreatic cancer: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies. Cancer Causes Control 2023.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The association between red, processed and white meat consumption and risk of pancreatic cancer: a meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies - PubMed

Findings from this meta-analysis suggested that high consumption of red meat and white meat is associated with an increased risk of pancreatic cancer. Future prospective studies are warranted to confirm the association between meat consumption and the risk of pancreatic cancer.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

See unlike the youtube videos these are academic papers and not monetised - and that is not to say that there is zero question about the funding or intent of the authors, but I took a random cross-section of papers by researchers in different countries and different journals, many of which are meta-analyses (i.e. analyse multiple studies at once, not just one study). You might get grants and bragging rights for publishing to journals but you aren't selling ad content via youtube. There's no T-shirts or merch at pubmed.
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What you then need to do for us @Odessa is review the literature for papers about large numbers of successful outcomes, with few side effects, of the carnivore diet.

In fairness there may be a very substantial lack of research that can be quoted, but that is also a symptom of why some of these diets have issues, because the lack of data does not mean there will not be negative data.
 
Odessa said:
There is something in red meat that acts like fiber I can not remember the name of it ...I was watching it the other week also in the same video talking about Vitamin C levels

But humans are best on meat
Click to expand...
I would be interested to hear about this meat ingredient, because meat has basically zero fibre. Let me know when you recall specifically what it is.
 
Balance is key. You need meat, veggies, fruit, grains, water etc. Eat in moderation, cook nice food, enjoy eating it, it's ok to have a glass of wine with dinner. If you're having on average more than 2 drinks a night you need to cut back.
Moderation and balance. Lots of fresh ingredients and flavour. Focusing too much on any one food group is rarely a good idea.
I remember when suddenly everyone was doing some sort of caveman diet a few years back because some celebrity chef made a short term niche market, before everyone realised what a kook he was. These fads come and go.
 
jirskyr said:
Nah mate I don't watch hand-picked youtube videos. If I really want to look into it I'll start reading medical papers, which is part of my career training.
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The guy I posted the other day in the bottom of the video he Post all the papers he wants to be questioned and welcomes it I think he has written over 500 papers
 
Odessa said:
The guy I posted the other day in the bottom of the video he Post all the papers he wants to be questioned and welcomes it I think he has written over 500 papers
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No there are no papers posted at all. Lots of links to products for sale though.

And that Dr Abs dude in the interview, not only can I not take him seriously because he's wearing blue contacts, but I looked him up and he's a cosmetic surgeon. He doesn't offer any qualifications or references or published papers, just instagram and youtube videos. That doesn't bode well, it's got "quack" written all over it.

But you see that's my problem with what you are saying about these health claims. You can't just say "oh he lists lots of papers and wants to be questioned" - that is the absolutely basic level of a fraudster or quack, people who build a nice website or resume or hand-picked resources. You have to interrogate those sources, look at those papers. Research where the person is employed and their potential reputation in their field. You can't just accept what is posted in youtube from some random person and accept their word that they already did all the comprehensive well-designed and globally reputable research for you.
 
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jirskyr said:
No there are no papers posted at all. Lots of links to products for sale though.

And that Dr Abs dude in the interview, not only can I not take him seriously because he's wearing blue contacts, but I looked him up and he's a cosmetic surgeon. He doesn't offer any qualifications or references or published papers, just instagram and youtube videos. That doesn't bode well, it's got "quack" written all over it.

But you see that's my problem with what you are saying about these health claims. You can't just say "oh he lists lots of papers and wants to be questioned" - that is the absolutely basic level of a fraudster or quack, people who build a nice website or resume or hand-picked resources. You have to interrogate those sources, look at those papers. Research where the person is employed and their potential reputation in their field. You can't just accept what is posted in youtube from some random person and accept their word that they already did all the comprehensive well-designed and globally reputable research for you.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate it's only 200 papers did you check this guy out ?

Today you’re getting a deep dive with Dr. Thomas N. Seyfried!

Dr. Seyfried is Professor of Biology at Boston College, and received his Ph.D. in Genetics and Biochemistry.

He has over 200 peer-reviewed publications and is author of the book, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer
 
jirskyr said:
Red meat is one of the foods, not the only one.

E.g. red meat contains no fibre. Pretty sure high red meat consumption also linked to higher rates of cancer like bowel.

Humans evolved for hundreds of thousands of years eating whatever was available, one of the keys to our success.

Of course if you are talking highly-refined carbs then they are not good for you. But complex unprocessed carbs in moderation?
Click to expand...
I am pretty Shaw this is the video talking about the was the meat is broken down the gut and vitamin C

 
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