If you could start Over

@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

I want competitive too, badly. I'm not happy to plod.

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.

My point is I don't think cutting Madge adrift is going to turn things around magically. Hasn't worked for us in 10 years. Tigers doubled-down on Madge in 2020 for a reason.

So I'm gonna let the "coach future" angle go for now, focus on what he/we can do with the roster and the performance.
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

I want competitive too, badly. I'm not happy to plod.

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.

My point is I don't think cutting Madge adrift is going to turn things around magically. Hasn't worked for us in 10 years. Tigers doubled-down on Madge in 2020 for a reason.

So I'm gonna let the "coach future" angle go for now, focus on what he/we can do with the roster and the performance.

All good I think we both want the best for the club, guess it’s the frustration of the last ten seasons on my part
 
@hank37w said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319781) said:
We can start over.

It starts next week up in Newcastle.

That’s right Hank, there’s always the next game. That is unless we get kicked out, like Annandale and Glebe etc.

If We were starting over .. the better solution would have been to not have a merger. Get rid of one or both teams.
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree
>

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.



Agree with most of what you've said except this.

We haven't just lost in these 2 rounds, we have been blown off the park. You need to put in consistent performances to be in the hunt but this team doesn't have it in them.
 
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320146) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

I want competitive too, badly. I'm not happy to plod.

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.

My point is I don't think cutting Madge adrift is going to turn things around magically. Hasn't worked for us in 10 years. Tigers doubled-down on Madge in 2020 for a reason.

So I'm gonna let the "coach future" angle go for now, focus on what he/we can do with the roster and the performance.

All good I think we both want the best for the club, guess it’s the frustration of the last ten seasons on my part

Yes all good. For some people the 10 seasons weighs down on them like sinking to the bottom of the ocean. For me, it's like safety blanket - we can only get better and if we lose, that's pretty normal and I'm used to the disappointment.

Honestly when we made the finals in 2010-2011, I wasn't used to dealing with that level of football stress. V difficult. Even 10 years later I still recount ifs and buts from those finals matches when we got knocked out. I can only wonder what it's like for supporters whose teams make the finals most seasons.
 
@tig_prmz said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320161) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

>

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.



Agree with most of what you've said except this.

We haven't just lost in these 2 rounds, we have been blown off the park. You need to put in consistent performances to be in the hunt but this team doesn't have it in them.

Alright, but two isn't a trend. You can identify any two rounds in a season for most sides and find bad games. And better for those bad games to be early in the season than late.

E.g. 2005
Rd 6 Cowboys 44 Tigers 20
Rd 7 Parramatta 26 Tigers 16
Rd 8 Dragons 40 Tigers 32
Rd 9 Manly 34 Tigers 26
Rd 12 Warriors 21 Tigers 4
Rd 13 Storm 30 Tigers 14
Rd 15 Broncos 40 Tigers 22

I'm not being pedantic, I am saying that it's very feasible to salvage a bad start to the season and go on a winning run. A betting man might say it's unlikely for Tigers 2021, but a betting man wouldn't have taken Sharks winning 15 straight in 2016 or Penrith only losing 1 regular-season match in 2020.
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

I want competitive too, badly. I'm not happy to plod.

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.

My point is I don't think cutting Madge adrift is going to turn things around magically. Hasn't worked for us in 10 years. Tigers doubled-down on Madge in 2020 for a reason.

So I'm gonna let the "coach future" angle go for now, focus on what he/we can do with the roster and the performance.

Yep agree
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320367) said:
I'm not being pedantic, I am saying that it's very feasible to salvage a bad start to the season and go on a winning run. A betting man might say it's unlikely for Tigers 2021, but a betting man wouldn't have taken Sharks winning 15 straight in 2016 or Penrith only losing 1 regular-season match in 2020.

I'm sorry but you're looking at anomalies to make your point.

It's not about being a betting man or the odds. This team that we have assembled isn't going to get us to anywhere close to a premiership. By some miracle it might get us to Top 8.

And it's not the players that we have recruited either. It's the "culture". You need a few experienced "winners" in the team to lead it forward which I was hoping Tamou might be able to do but he has one more year with us and I don't think it's going to get us there.

Apart from him, we have Brooks/Nofoaluma/Twal (never played finals), Roberts/Leilua (off-field dramas), Joe O (coming off the worst year of his life). These guys are not the sort of role models that are going to lead the team around.

The gap between us and Top 4 is increasing but so is the gap between us and the 6th to 12th teams.
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320367) said:
@tig_prmz said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320161) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

>

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.



Agree with most of what you've said except this.

We haven't just lost in these 2 rounds, we have been blown off the park. You need to put in consistent performances to be in the hunt but this team doesn't have it in them.

Alright, but two isn't a trend. You can identify any two rounds in a season for most sides and find bad games. And better for those bad games to be early in the season than late.

E.g. 2005
Rd 6 Cowboys 44 Tigers 20
Rd 7 Parramatta 26 Tigers 16
Rd 8 Dragons 40 Tigers 32
Rd 9 Manly 34 Tigers 26
Rd 12 Warriors 21 Tigers 4
Rd 13 Storm 30 Tigers 14
Rd 15 Broncos 40 Tigers 22

I'm not being pedantic, I am saying that it's very feasible to salvage a bad start to the season and go on a winning run. A betting man might say it's unlikely for Tigers 2021, but a betting man wouldn't have taken Sharks winning 15 straight in 2016 or Penrith only losing 1 regular-season match in 2020.

2005 again .....rrrrrrrrrrrr
 
@tig_prmz said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320459) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320367) said:
I'm not being pedantic, I am saying that it's very feasible to salvage a bad start to the season and go on a winning run. A betting man might say it's unlikely for Tigers 2021, but a betting man wouldn't have taken Sharks winning 15 straight in 2016 or Penrith only losing 1 regular-season match in 2020.

I'm sorry but you're looking at anomalies to make your point.

It's not about being a betting man or the odds. This team that we have assembled isn't going to get us to anywhere close to a premiership. By some miracle it might get us to Top 8.

And it's not the players that we have recruited either. It's the "culture". You need a few experienced "winners" in the team to lead it forward which I was hoping Tamou might be able to do but he has one more year with us and I don't think it's going to get us there.

Apart from him, we have Brooks/Nofoaluma/Twal (never played finals), Roberts/Leilua (off-field dramas), Joe O (coming off the worst year of his life). These guys are not the sort of role models that are going to lead the team around.

The gap between us and Top 4 is increasing but so is the gap between us and the 6th to 12th teams.

An anomaly can only be so if it does not turn up repeatedly. Teams that play finals football regularly have form slumps during the season. The point is that they do it less often and for less duration than the bottom 8.

You are predicting Tigers need a miracle to make the Top 8. That's fine, but it's a prediction only. I am pointing out the fact that plenty of sides have been lapped during a season and still played finals. Certainly almost nobody believes we can go anywhere near the premiership, that's only for the most optimistic amongst us.

Re "winners" - it's an interesting point. What do you mean by a "winner". James Roberts played finals football 3/4 seasons with Broncos and 1/2 seasons with Souths (Souths made the finals obviously but he wasn't playing any longer). BJ Leilua has played finals 4 times including 2 Grand Finals. Mbye played finals 3/5 years at Bulldogs before joining Tigers including a Grand Final. Heck even Rusty Packer has played in a Grand Final.

The only blokes who have consistently not played finals are players stuck at the Tigers!
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320350) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320146) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320142) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319821) said:
I’m not asking for a premiership this year all I’m asking for is team to be competitive and be moving in the right direction,I’m not seeing ether. But hey if you’re happy to plod along for the next 2/3 season’s who am I to judge. Although you do make some good points some even if I don’t totally agree

I want competitive too, badly. I'm not happy to plod.

Season is only 2 rounds down however, there is every opportunity to turn things around.

My point is I don't think cutting Madge adrift is going to turn things around magically. Hasn't worked for us in 10 years. Tigers doubled-down on Madge in 2020 for a reason.

So I'm gonna let the "coach future" angle go for now, focus on what he/we can do with the roster and the performance.

All good I think we both want the best for the club, guess it’s the frustration of the last ten seasons on my part

Yes all good. For some people the 10 seasons weighs down on them like sinking to the bottom of the ocean. For me, it's like safety blanket - we can only get better and if we lose, that's pretty normal and I'm used to the disappointment.

Honestly when we made the finals in 2010-2011, I wasn't used to dealing with that level of football stress. V difficult. Even 10 years later I still recount ifs and buts from those finals matches when we got knocked out. I can only wonder what it's like for supporters whose teams make the finals most seasons.

There lies the problem for me as supporters and members
We should not have to get used to the disappointment and it shouldn’t be normal or acceptable
 
@strongee said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319789) said:
Look , I hate to break it to everyone , but this year is the first year where we didn’t just sign average players , who would compete for 20 of 24 games for a win loss of 11 and 13 . **What we did do , is sign a whole bunch of 19-21 year olds , and watch them nurture together . Most of those guys , you’re Lauries , AD and Simpkin of the world are in key positions . It is now a waiting game .** Really our season for real starts this week . Many of us knew we would lose both these games , not to the extent that we did , but hey , as long as we get rid of BJ , we should have at least a feeling of trust that we arnt going to bleed 30 points before we even get started. As for the rest , I dunno , it’s going to be a bumpy ride , and there is going to be some bodies left on the side of the ride as we drive along . BJ is the first , Brooks needs to fix his kicking game pronto , and some of the middles and edges need to start looking over thier shoulder , as we do have Simpkins and Blore to come in and take a couple of jobs .
**The team that played on Sunday will not be the one that finishes the season.**

Most rebuilds need a full tear down , then build up . I’m praying that won’t happen to us , but I’m no longer confident . But really our first test as to where we are is this week . We played 2 teams with years worth of continuity , and we got torched . It’s a bit of a bull crap draw , but what can you do . I would have preferred to ease into the season and build confidence , even if it is false .

Great post. Probably the best post of the week.

It really is a waiting game now. The recruitment has been very good. Exactly what was needed. As was fixing the junior pathways etc.

The foundation has been set but unfortunately it might be a case of two steps back one step forward for a little while.

The depth we have acquired is also very good.

The issue was always going to be the halves.

As for the OP's question if i could start over id have a young half back much more ready for NRL than Jock Madden. Thats all, the rest is ok.
 
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319721) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319672) said:
@tilllindemann said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319646) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319635) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319615) said:
@joelcainenumber1fan said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319327) said:
Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

The gladiator turned that place into a powerhouse not Maguire,he as an ordinary coach was just there at the right time
 
@spacecub said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320613) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319721) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319672) said:
@tilllindemann said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319646) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319635) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319615) said:
@joelcainenumber1fan said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319327) said:
Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

The gladiator turned that place into a powerhouse not Maguire,he as an ordinary coach was just there at the right time


You are certainly entitled to your opinion but i doubt many would agree with it
 
@speed2burn said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319720) said:
For the record, we’ve had to defend 8-10 more sets than our opposition the past 2 weeks through poor ball handling / stupid penalties

And that contributes greatly to a loss atm. If we can cut that out we will start to compete more.
It would also help if our main playmaker started getting the kicks right - finishing sets absolutely cruelled us in both games.
 
@spacecub said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320613) said:
@jirskyr said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319721) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319672) said:
@tilllindemann said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319646) said:
@goanna57 said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319635) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319615) said:
@joelcainenumber1fan said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319327) said:
Nofo worries me a lot right now
hes attack has completely gone since he got his contract

he had one great year...it was a myth

The only myth is the coach

We've tried just about every coach in Australia.

Replacing a coach who's won two premierships with yet another new coaching experiment would be madness.

One premiership In nrl and even the club he won that at got rid of him and there still making finals. When he started we were 9th his first year 9th again next year 11th
do we need to hit rock bottom.Maguire has recruited majority of the playing squad and assistants of his choice it rests with him as he whould say he must take ownership of the performance’s

So what you are saying is Maguire developed a roster capable of making the finals for the next decade? Or are you suggesting it was 100% Anthony Seibold's influence on the roster that got them from 12th to 3rd in one season?

Before Maguire, Souths made the finals once in 10 NRL seasons (once in 20 NRL/ARL/NSWRL seasons), including 3 spoons. During Maguire they made the finals 4/6 years and won a comp. After Maguire they have made the finals 3 more consecutive years.

Doesn't matter if Souths eventually outsted Madge, he was very successful in turning one of the most under-performing clubs in the NRL era into a powerhouse. If that's the least of what Madge can do at the Tigers, so be it, give him the reins.

Souths fans permanently indebted to Madge, nobody before or after has had Souths in a Grand Final since 1971.

The gladiator turned that place into a powerhouse not Maguire,he as an ordinary coach was just there at the right time

You don't like him we get it but he is entitled to own his achievement as a premiership coach. Plenty of coaches have had talented rosters to work with and failed to win the big one.
 
Before we start looking at a premiership or even a rudddy finals appearance this year , can w3 look ar getting a *WIN* first
 
@the_patriot said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320610) said:
@strongee said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319789) said:
Look , I hate to break it to everyone , but this year is the first year where we didn’t just sign average players , who would compete for 20 of 24 games for a win loss of 11 and 13 . **What we did do , is sign a whole bunch of 19-21 year olds , and watch them nurture together . Most of those guys , you’re Lauries , AD and Simpkin of the world are in key positions . It is now a waiting game .** Really our season for real starts this week . Many of us knew we would lose both these games , not to the extent that we did , but hey , as long as we get rid of BJ , we should have at least a feeling of trust that we arnt going to bleed 30 points before we even get started. As for the rest , I dunno , it’s going to be a bumpy ride , and there is going to be some bodies left on the side of the ride as we drive along . BJ is the first , Brooks needs to fix his kicking game pronto , and some of the middles and edges need to start looking over thier shoulder , as we do have Simpkins and Blore to come in and take a couple of jobs .
**The team that played on Sunday will not be the one that finishes the season.**

Most rebuilds need a full tear down , then build up . I’m praying that won’t happen to us , but I’m no longer confident . But really our first test as to where we are is this week . We played 2 teams with years worth of continuity , and we got torched . It’s a bit of a bull crap draw , but what can you do . I would have preferred to ease into the season and build confidence , even if it is false .

Great post. Probably the best post of the week.

It really is a waiting game now. The recruitment has been very good. Exactly what was needed. As was fixing the junior pathways etc.

The foundation has been set but unfortunately it might be a case of two steps back one step forward for a little while.

The depth we have acquired is also very good.

The issue was always going to be the halves.

As for the OP's question if i could start over id have a young half back much more ready for NRL than Jock Madden. Thats all, the rest is ok.

The halfback issue , is an industry wide one . Canberra went to the UK, the roosters got lucky , and poached the sneaky glue guy to the Souths premiership , who got into a biff with the owner on a booze trip , Souths kept the other half of that equation and stuck him with a guy , who spent the first 26 years of his life floating in reserve grade purgatory, and Melbourne just manufactured one , like they did the time before that.
After that every single other team has huge question marks over the bloke wearing the number 7 , including manly . What’s DCE win record without a gun fullback ? Stewart before turbo .
 
@strongee said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320713) said:
@the_patriot said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320610) said:
@strongee said in [If you could start Over](/post/1319789) said:
Look , I hate to break it to everyone , but this year is the first year where we didn’t just sign average players , who would compete for 20 of 24 games for a win loss of 11 and 13 . **What we did do , is sign a whole bunch of 19-21 year olds , and watch them nurture together . Most of those guys , you’re Lauries , AD and Simpkin of the world are in key positions . It is now a waiting game .** Really our season for real starts this week . Many of us knew we would lose both these games , not to the extent that we did , but hey , as long as we get rid of BJ , we should have at least a feeling of trust that we arnt going to bleed 30 points before we even get started. As for the rest , I dunno , it’s going to be a bumpy ride , and there is going to be some bodies left on the side of the ride as we drive along . BJ is the first , Brooks needs to fix his kicking game pronto , and some of the middles and edges need to start looking over thier shoulder , as we do have Simpkins and Blore to come in and take a couple of jobs .
**The team that played on Sunday will not be the one that finishes the season.**

Most rebuilds need a full tear down , then build up . I’m praying that won’t happen to us , but I’m no longer confident . But really our first test as to where we are is this week . We played 2 teams with years worth of continuity , and we got torched . It’s a bit of a bull crap draw , but what can you do . I would have preferred to ease into the season and build confidence , even if it is false .

Great post. Probably the best post of the week.

It really is a waiting game now. The recruitment has been very good. Exactly what was needed. As was fixing the junior pathways etc.

The foundation has been set but unfortunately it might be a case of two steps back one step forward for a little while.

The depth we have acquired is also very good.

The issue was always going to be the halves.

As for the OP's question if i could start over id have a young half back much more ready for NRL than Jock Madden. Thats all, the rest is ok.

The halfback issue , is an industry wide one . Canberra went to the UK, the roosters got lucky , and poached the sneaky glue guy to the Souths premiership , who got into a biff with the owner on a booze trip , Souths kept the other half of that equation and stuck him with a guy , who spent the first 26 years of his life floating in reserve grade purgatory, and Melbourne just manufactured one , like they did the time before that.
After that every single other team has huge question marks over the bloke wearing the number 7 , including manly . What’s DCE win record without a gun fullback ? Stewart before turbo .


I dont do the every club has issues thing.

If you want to make the 8 you need a good half or 5/8. Very rarely are there exceptions. Most teams in this comp have a quality half on their books.

We have a bottom 5 halfback and an unproven 5/8 who may provide some hope.
 
@tig_prmz said in [If you could start Over](/post/1320161) said:
We haven’t just lost in these 2 rounds, we have been blown off the park. You need to put in consistent performances to be in the hunt but this team doesn’t have it in them.


It took us a while go get going in 05. We have a new team. We have had a complete overhaul of our spine.

I wouldn't start over. We have a good base to build on.
 

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