Immaturity costs us big time...

[goldcoast_tiger]

There will always be a chicken that says "the sky is falling", I'm happy to be the turkey and be patient.

Yep, we're getting the prophecies of doom while we're still in the 8.

Don't you think you're exagerating just a little , I'm not saying to can them. Just that it'd be a help to the team if they ran the ball themselves a bit. Last night the Warriors didnt have to be that tight on them and just concentrated on the runners.
And I think the club has maybe made it harder on them both , by putting them in at the same time.
Nothing would make me happier than to see them crack it, but it's just my opinion that at the moment they are struggling.
It is a forum and we all have opinions , that's just mine.

 

[cochise]

There will always be a chicken that says "the sky is falling", I'm happy to be the turkey and be patient.

Yep, we're getting the prophecies of doom while we're still in the 8.

Don't you think you're exagerating just a little , I'm not saying to can them. Just that it'd be a help to the team if they ran the ball themselves a bit. Last night the Warriors didnt have to be that tight on them and just concentrated on the runners.
And I think the club has maybe made it harder on them both , by putting them in at the same time.
Nothing would make me happier than to see them crack it, but it's just my opinion that at the moment they are struggling.
It is a forum and we all have opinions , that's just mine.

We don't really have any options but to have them both playing together, Brooks is the standout so far so we would need an experienced 5/8th to partner him. We don't have one!

 

[Russell]

Russ,and if the Rorters or Manly offer big money to them and they go,or heaven forbid another Teddy type injury,then what do we do, wait for the next generation to come along and go through the same thing…..

Our game is a big business,it's a gamble you win some you lose some,but most of all you cut your losses and hope you made the right choice..The way Brooks and Moses are going nobody really knows what they are going to produce or even make it to the next level..this is the gamble,if I had my money on a deadset favourite like these two are supposed to be then I would want a bloody good run for my money....

Russ,Iam quite happy to watch the way they go in the next few rounds,and I certainly hope they show me some of the reputed talent they have as playmakers....

TT - understand what you are saying but…

If the club was only going to give them what we have had and a few more rounds - then we should get rid of them to the highest bidder. It is going to take a lot longer than 8 or 9 rounds before you/we see what everyone is expecting. Especially seeing that JT won't let them do their thing yet.

He is trying to teach them and the team - defence, cut out mistakes, don't give away penalties etc.
JT has not got to attack lessons yet. How much can guys in their early twenties absorb? Not much when there is so much to learn.

So why don't all the dissatisfied people on here get stuck into JT for the halves not taking on the line, not chip kicking etc. It is his game plan, they are only following orders.

I know you wear your heart on your sleeve where the Wests Tigers are concerned TT but I have read that you played the game yourself and I'm sure as you see glimses, you will be prepared to cut them more slack as the games roll by.

Russ,that's what I like about you,sensible reasoning,I may have gone off a bit half cocked,not because I wanted to bag the young guys as such,but I like many probably had a very high expectation of things this year because of the hype surrounding our two halves….after your reasoning to me I will endeavour to take each game as it comes and only have a small amount of expectation of the halves while they are still learning.....thank you Russ ..cheers...

Good onya TT - I'm sure you'll enjoy the games more if you keep the frustration level down.

Thanks for the - Thanks TT

 

[cochise]

My advice to anyone in a panic over where we finish this year is to view this years success on not where we finish on the ladder, we will be around midfield, but on how well our guys develop. Go to the games and look for enhancements in the games of players like Brooks, Moses, Tedesco, Sironen, Sue, Ava, Lovett, Naiqama, etc. These players are the future of our club and some will progress some will stay the same and some will regress. Look at the games with an open mind and don't prejudge on what you expect to see from a 5 year 1st grade veteran, you will see little things all these players are adding to their game on a weekly basis.

Have a look at Sirro, a lot of people were writing him off last year and this year he is looking strong, powerful and damaging almost everytime he touches the ball. He will have a break out game in the next couple of months where he will be almost unstoppable.

About round 20 put your head up from looking at the development of our players and see where we are sitting on the ladder, if we are still in the bottom half of the 8 awesome, maybe then get excited about finals footy.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

I actually can not believe this thread exists, but I'm always surprised by the lack of football knowledge of some fans. We are playing with two 20 year old halves here, Andrew Johns took years to develop into the player he became. In an ideal world these 2 players would have come along a couple of years apart allowing them to be partnered with a more experienced partner. We do not have that luxury but these 2 will develop into a strong combination but they need a lot of support from the coaching staff to develop because they don't have that experienced partner to guide them.

The kicking game is most definately the gameplan the players have been asked to follow, Brooks has one of the best long kicking games I have seen but he is being told to put up the midfield bombs. JT is trying to get a situation where our defensive line is set and at the returner as he catches the ball.

Also talking about our game plan it is a very simple gameplan. We are trying to move the ball through our forwards into the oppositions 20, when we reach the 20 we will take a settler to around centre field. We will then attack on either side through the use of second man plays where we either hit the 2nd man, works best when the 2nd man is Teddy as he is our best ball player atm, or hit the lead runner, usually Sirro or lawrance with a short ball. This is the extent of our gameplan at this stage of the season but it will expand as the season progresses

Anyway sorry for the novel, give these guys time and they will develop, it may take a little longer than we would like because they are lacking the experience partner to guide them, but there are no shortage of halves in our coaching ranks so they will get there in time and we will challenge for the premiership with these 2 players guiding us.

I'm always surprised that some people love to imply that their football knowledge is so much better than others on here.
But you are right about the comparisons with Andrew Johns. The two cannot be compared as Johns had the perfect entry into the top grade . Off the bench to get him used to it, and then experienced players around him for quite awhile.
IM certainly not death riding either of them , but I'm just saying what I see, and I'm hoping that these kids futures will not be harmed because of the way they have been brought in .

 

[guyofthetiger]

ha ha… i have changed my perspective on this whole issue as the season gets going. before the season began i had low expectations and just wanted to see the young guys improve over the course of it.
then i was critical of moses doing nothing.

now im actually quite satisfied the team is 3-3! add to that a good showing against souths, and a loss to the dogs they should never have lost, and theyre not going so badly!

i like that the club is showing conviction in sticking to what has been determined as the path to take. im happy with farah taking a less dominant role, moses is starting to show glimpses of what can be (one time last night i particularly liked a play he backed up...farahs break maybe?) and brooks hasnt done anything to get me too concerned about him although he seems to be a little behind where i would have thought hed be at this stage.

still, i think the buzzword for 2015 is patience. give the team at least half a season and lets take another look then.

Couldn't agree more.

Having said that TrueTiger, understand your concern.

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[guyofthetiger]

If you guys and girls on the forum think Brooks and Moses will win us anything within the next five years think again…

Both are highly reputed playmakers on big money and yet failed to get us a win tonight when it was a winnable game for us.....

Kicks down the throat of the opposition,missed takles poor reads for last play options and the list goes on...

Brooks and Moses....inexperienced,imature,and most of all scared..welcome to the big league,it's good to be fantastic in your own age group but now they get run over,bashed and bruised,with little to offer in return..

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,otherwise be happy to lose week in week out until they get enough experience, unless of course they get hurt and aren't seen for months.....

Games aren't won on reputation alone....if Tapau,Halitau,Woods,Simona and co weren't there tonight we would have 50 put on us....little glimpses of brilliance aren't enough to play week in week out in the NRL .....say what you like about me but this is my opinion and I will stick to it until I see an enormous improvement in these two.... :unamused:

True Tiger, one word for you…..Wanker!!!

I'm sure mods have chopped posts or posters out for less

_Posted using RoarFEED 4.2.0_

 

[cochise]

I actually can not believe this thread exists, but I'm always surprised by the lack of football knowledge of some fans. We are playing with two 20 year old halves here, Andrew Johns took years to develop into the player he became. In an ideal world these 2 players would have come along a couple of years apart allowing them to be partnered with a more experienced partner. We do not have that luxury but these 2 will develop into a strong combination but they need a lot of support from the coaching staff to develop because they don't have that experienced partner to guide them.

The kicking game is most definately the gameplan the players have been asked to follow, Brooks has one of the best long kicking games I have seen but he is being told to put up the midfield bombs. JT is trying to get a situation where our defensive line is set and at the returner as he catches the ball.

Also talking about our game plan it is a very simple gameplan. We are trying to move the ball through our forwards into the oppositions 20, when we reach the 20 we will take a settler to around centre field. We will then attack on either side through the use of second man plays where we either hit the 2nd man, works best when the 2nd man is Teddy as he is our best ball player atm, or hit the lead runner, usually Sirro or lawrance with a short ball. This is the extent of our gameplan at this stage of the season but it will expand as the season progresses

Anyway sorry for the novel, give these guys time and they will develop, it may take a little longer than we would like because they are lacking the experience partner to guide them, but there are no shortage of halves in our coaching ranks so they will get there in time and we will challenge for the premiership with these 2 players guiding us.

I'm always surprised that some people love to imply that their football knowledge is so much better than others on here.
But you are right about the comparisons with Andrew Johns. The two cannot be compared as Johns had the perfect entry into the top grade . Off the bench to get him used to it, and then experienced players around him for quite awhile.
IM certainly not death riding either of them , but I'm just saying what I see, and I'm hoping that these kids futures will not be harmed because of the way they have been brought in .

I didn't imply it, I stated that some fans have a lack of knowledge about football.

But I do agree that the halves are being brought through in less than an ideal situation, hopefully the highly experienced halves on our coaching staff can guide them through the 1st couple of year. That' what I believe JT is trying to do with the simplified gameplans.

 

[Telltails]

I don't know what people expect from blokes with less than 30 games of NRL when we get towelled up in the forwards ,we lose the ruck and we don't have a 50/50 split of the ball ??

We could of had Lewis and Johns as our halves and still lost

YES!!! I dont know what half these people are watching. The few times we were in the Warriors quarter we converted into points.We defended our line for numerous sets - 69% -31% possession and 8-3 penalty count just prior to half time - and people are saying the halves dont run the ball enough!! We didnt have any ball - for a great percentage of that game. Both halves had try assists which dosnt seem to count with most, but that is their job in the team. The team did well to stay with the Warriors in that game. Had a couple of decisions gone our way - we win it. Last year we probably would have got beat by forty with those stats. The halves are not starring, and they are making some mistakes - but as a team I think we are going great compared to the performances last year.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I'm willing to be patient with both of them, however the fact is our kicking game this season is the worst in the NRL by far. This needs to improve NOW.

 

[Tigermama]

The time and money spent on these two could be spent elsewhere if you want to win something soon,

And where could that money be better spent? If you could actually solve that puzzle you'd run a successful football club. In reality it's pretty hard to just buy yourself a working long term halves pairing.

You could throw a million bucks a season at a young, in form half like Foran who no longer fits into a more successful team's cap. Then you try to budget another 24 players and pray you got the balance right.

You could recruit the drunks, thugs, party animals, sex offenders, twitter trolls and wife beaters that other teams have cut loose cheap. These guys can win premierships for a team that can keep them out of trouble (or at least off social media). The Tigers have been keen to put the days of Field, McGuiness and Hopoate behind them, showing no interest in the likes of Todd Carney or Blake Ferguson.

You could bring up hacks from NSW cup who have the experience to sort of play the role, even if they don't set the world on fire. They're in their mid 20's, have plenty of match fitness, know the position well and probably played a few NRL games with another club before being found surplus to requirements. Josh Drinkwater has already been through the whole cycle, including a stint in the ESL, and he's only 22.

You could grab a 30 something former rep player who's run his course at another club. These are blokes who played for their state and their country, trouble is it was in 2006\. Shopping for them is a bit like buying a second hand car, there's good value out there, but it's a gamble. The Tigers passed on Luke Lewis at the same time they bought Braith Anasta. Luke Lewis was playing origin while Anasta was injured on the sidelines on his way to a full time media gig. The Tigers decision could just as easily gone the other way.

Or you could back the best talent from your development system and see what happens. We're at 50% win/loss with the youngest halves pairing in the comp. We're hardly in crisis. This side will improve, and if we don't have a cascade of injuries we should play finals footy this year.

Very good post Cosimo.. TT be patient, as these two is what JT has to work with at the moment. We'll give them time and hopefully they will improve 100%.
Yes we didn't win the game, we were undisciplined, and our halfs kicking and last tackle options weren't the best i agree, but we hung in there with our defence. Loosing by 10 points to a fired up team like the Warriors at their homeground wasn't embarrassing. In days past it would've been a lot worse. Our halfs will learn more from a loss, then a win.
They need to improve their kicking game though, as it's very poor. :frowning:

 

[Tigermama]

There will always be a chicken that says "the sky is falling", I'm happy to be the turkey and be patient.

Lol.. There's quite a few turkeys on this forrum NT. Me included. :laughing:

 

[Tigermama]

I actually can not believe this thread exists, but I'm always surprised by the lack of football knowledge of some fans. We are playing with two 20 year old halves here, Andrew Johns took years to develop into the player he became. In an ideal world these 2 players would have come along a couple of years apart allowing them to be partnered with a more experienced partner. We do not have that luxury but these 2 will develop into a strong combination but they need a lot of support from the coaching staff to develop because they don't have that experienced partner to guide them.

The kicking game is most definately the gameplan the players have been asked to follow, Brooks has one of the best long kicking games I have seen but he is being told to put up the midfield bombs. JT is trying to get a situation where our defensive line is set and at the returner as he catches the ball.

Also talking about our game plan it is a very simple gameplan. We are trying to move the ball through our forwards into the oppositions 20, when we reach the 20 we will take a settler to around centre field. We will then attack on either side through the use of second man plays where we either hit the 2nd man, works best when the 2nd man is Teddy as he is our best ball player atm, or hit the lead runner, usually Sirro or lawrance with a short ball. This is the extent of our gameplan at this stage of the season but it will expand as the season progresses

Anyway sorry for the novel, give these guys time and they will develop, it may take a little longer than we would like because they are lacking the experience partner to guide them, but there are no shortage of halves in our coaching ranks so they will get there in time and we will challenge for the premiership with these 2 players guiding us.

I love reading a good novel Cochise… Good post :wink:

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

We had 'experienced' Anasta and Marshall and our kicking game was not better :frowning:
IMHO, Moses is much better option than Anasta.
Brooks kicking game produced few tries, he was one of the best against the Poodles.
We just need to be patient, 'Rome wasn't built in one day' :slight_smile:

Go Tigers

 

[Sco77y]

Bottom line is I think we'd all rather have our two current young, developing halves than any kind of setup we've had in the past 5 years (at least). We were going nowhere in this area and finally we appear to be moving in the right direction, with plenty of upside I'm sure. We have a lot to look forward to in the coming years across our entire roster - something we could never have said in previous years. Brooks and Moses need more time to gel, and this will happen in time.. They're gaining a lot of experience after each and every round in the NRL and I think they could take a lot out of the Warriors game in particular. I can only see them improving week in and week out, and by the end of the season we'll have something pretty exciting there I'm sure.

 

[Tigermama]

A very optimistic post 77y.. Love it :slight_smile:

 

[TrueTiger]

Well fellow forumers,this was quite an argumentative topic to say the least…after having read many of the posts,some people were very vocal about giving the young halves time to get used to NRL,some were critical of the two as a combination and I feel others sat on the fence so to speak.....my conclusion therein is that the young guys are what we have as our FG halves and we have to persevere with them for quite awhile it seems...hopefully they will develope and start producing the skills they are reputed to have as playmakers...

One thing that really stands out is...we haven't the depth to place a more experienced half with either one for a couple of games to at least guide them and show them the ropes required at this level......I did say to Russ earlier in the thread,that I may have gone off half cocked by posting this thread,not to bag the kids but I was expecting a tremendous 2015 due to having this combination playing in the top grade for us,they have a huge reputation according to the Club and will be our saving grace,I have not seen this at the moment,but Iam willing to give them the time to get more confidence and experience on their side....all in all I appreciate the input from all fellow forumers wether it be positive or negative,we are and always will be entitled to our opinion,whilst respecting others opinion and keeping within the boundaries of respect to each other..

 

[simonthetiger]

Does anyone remember the game against the dogs last year when they both fired and we flogged canterbury by 40??

its in there….they have done it at junior level and sporadically in firsts.

Hang in there.....i feel really confident that they will come good.

 

[pHyR3]

Does anyone remember the game against the dogs last year when they both fired and we flogged canterbury by 40??

its in there….they have done it at junior level and sporadically in firsts.

Hang in there.....i feel really confident that they will come good.

brooks wasnt there, that was alllll mitch moses :wink:

 

[Geo]

Does anyone remember the game against the dogs last year when they both fired and we flogged canterbury by 40??

its in there….they have done it at junior level and sporadically in firsts.

Hang in there.....i feel really confident that they will come good.

brooks wasnt there, that was alllll mitch moses :wink:

He was…I clearly remember Austin and Moses combining to put Brooks in under the sticks....