Is our team broken

[WT2K]

Our team is a reflection of years of poor management. We have systematically weakened it to manage poor financial decisions and in doing so have not been able to remain competitive with stronger clubs.
We consistently blame individuals and point the finger at players and coaches for shortcomings, instead of accepting that the issues have all been with the management of the club.They are responsible for putting together the squad that represents us each year.
Woods and Teddy leaving to play finals footy - the reason they stated all along - has caused fans to be filthy at them. But it is a valid reason. This year we won't play finals again but Sirro and Marty might, Jac will, Adam Blair will, Blake Austin probably, and the two clubs they are going to are known for particpating in finals footy consistently because they are well run organisations.
Last year those in charge oversaw some very poor decisions that reflected badly on the club and then sacked the coach three weeks into the competition.
Appointing Cleary looks like a good decision for rebuilding the club but it should have been done at the end of last year instead of the club insisting that JT had the full support of the board when clearly he didnt, the result destabilizing the team, again and not ideal when you are trying to tie up contracts with two key players.

Things had/ have to change at top level for us to achieve success and sacking or appointing individuals and pinning our hopes on that, was never going to resolve the position we find ourselves in.
Cleary has a massive task for his part in our club going forward but our key to success and or failure still lies with those who are running the club.

Accurate post

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Our team is a reflection of years of poor management. We have systematically weakened it to manage poor financial decisions and in doing so have not been able to remain competitive with stronger clubs.
We consistently blame individuals and point the finger at players and coaches for shortcomings, instead of accepting that the issues have all been with the management of the club.They are responsible for putting together the squad that represents us each year.
Woods and Teddy leaving to play finals footy - the reason they stated all along - has caused fans to be filthy at them. But it is a valid reason. This year we won't play finals again but Sirro and Marty might, Jac will, Adam Blair will, Blake Austin probably, and the two clubs they are going to are known for particpating in finals footy consistently because they are well run organisations.
Last year those in charge oversaw some very poor decisions that reflected badly on the club and then sacked the coach three weeks into the competition.
Appointing Cleary looks like a good decision for rebuilding the club but it should have been done at the end of last year instead of the club insisting that JT had the full support of the board when clearly he didnt, the result destabilizing the team, again and not ideal when you are trying to tie up contracts with two key players.

Things had/ have to change at top level for us to achieve success and sacking or appointing individuals and pinning our hopes on that, was never going to resolve the position we find ourselves in.
Cleary has a massive task for his part in our club going forward but our key to success and or failure still lies with those who are running the club.

It is worth adding that the Roosters and Bulldogs making the finals most years has more to do with having endless funds than a great management IMO. If you have the dubious capability of signing up every star player who comes off contract, then finals footy is virtually guaranteed. The whole notion of playing finals footy is dictated by the quality of your cattle more often than not (Roosters last season and Warriors every season being two exceptions).

 

[smoking_gun]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

 

[smoking_gun]

^^ pun intended with that last line as well

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Our team is a reflection of years of poor management. We have systematically weakened it to manage poor financial decisions and in doing so have not been able to remain competitive with stronger clubs.
We consistently blame individuals and point the finger at players and coaches for shortcomings, instead of accepting that the issues have all been with the management of the club.They are responsible for putting together the squad that represents us each year.
Woods and Teddy leaving to play finals footy - the reason they stated all along - has caused fans to be filthy at them. But it is a valid reason. This year we won't play finals again but Sirro and Marty might, Jac will, Adam Blair will, Blake Austin probably, and the two clubs they are going to are known for particpating in finals footy consistently because they are well run organisations.
Last year those in charge oversaw some very poor decisions that reflected badly on the club and then sacked the coach three weeks into the competition.
Appointing Cleary looks like a good decision for rebuilding the club but it should have been done at the end of last year instead of the club insisting that JT had the full support of the board when clearly he didnt, the result destabilizing the team, again and not ideal when you are trying to tie up contracts with two key players.

Things had/ have to change at top level for us to achieve success and sacking or appointing individuals and pinning our hopes on that, was never going to resolve the position we find ourselves in.
Cleary has a massive task for his part in our club going forward but our key to success and or failure still lies with those who are running the club.

This makes a lot of sense, the first paragraph in particular is spot on! You have to look at the big picture and the extenuating circumstances behind it all to see where we've gone wrong and like you said the team has been systematically weakened, over a period of time, for quite a while now. You can't just view the problem from what we are seeing being produced on the field at present, it won't make sense and is only cause for speculation and misplaced blame.

I agree completely TT
Although a lot here , don't want to see that the bad management by the club over a long time , has as at least contributed to the frustrations that some of the players have probably been feeling for awhile .
Most now admit that a high percentage of the team is not of first grade standard , and wouldn't be in first grade at most Nrl clubs. That's hasn't just happened now, that's the way we have been for a fairly long period,
The last few years of turmoil, (no matter whose fault it was) was a massive distraction to all concerned,
There seems to be some who want to whitewash the clubs failures, and that's the surest way to have it repeated again.
While the way some of the players( mainly one) went about leaving, certainly hasn't helped at all , I would think that Woods and Tedesco and probably ET as well( although he hasn't been here that long) would have become well and truly sick of fronting up week after week
And carrying quite a few of their teammates.
While both aren't playing well at the moment, it's not long ago that most of us were thinking
Very differently.
Players can , and do go through down periods at most clubs at some time. But If their confidence in the club and Management has been eroded too far, as it could well have been here, I can understand them being hesitant to believe that the club can be relied on to change it as much as it needs to be changed.
Obviously a start was made by getting a decent Coach, but maybe it was too little too late.

Hopefully things has or will change at the top , and we will build a better club than we've been in the last few years. If it doesn't we will be in much worse shape than we are now.

 

[MG1962]

There seems to be some who want to whitewash the clubs failures, and that's the surest way to have it repeated again.

I am not exactly sure what you want people to do here. Wests Tigers are not some democratic institution, we can't impeach the leadership. Even as members of either team's football club. no one gets to decided on a day to day basis what course of action the club should be taking.

The club has publicly said that board decisions made a few years ago are the cause of a lot of issues with the club. What else do you want the current board to do. Resign to help further pay for the sins of the past.

Following a football team is not a prison sentence. People don't like how things are being done, they can choose another team, another sport, even another interest. It has happened before, it will happen again.

 

[Russell]

There seems to be some who want to whitewash the clubs failures, and that's the surest way to have it repeated again.

I am not exactly sure what you want people to do here. Wests Tigers are not some democratic institution, we can't impeach the leadership. Even as members of either team's football club. no one gets to decided on a day to day basis what course of action the club should be taking.

The club has publicly said that board decisions made a few years ago are the cause of a lot of issues with the club. What else do you want the current board to do. Resign to help further pay for the sins of the past.

Following a football team is not a prison sentence. People don't like how things are being done, they can choose another team, another sport, even another interest. It has happened before, it will happen again.

Well said. It's time to stop complaining and get behind the new improved Cleary Tigers.

 

[earl]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

 

[Telltails]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

 

[tigerap]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

That is so sad but true…Woods being the club captain has led this team poorly on and off the field...at no stage has he fulfilled his obligations as club captain and the players saw from the beginning of the year and know that in their hearts...I think the best thing for Clearly to do is to strip Woods of the club captain and give it to Elijah Taylor on the basis he is planning for 2018...the team will rally behind ET but will continue to labour behind Woods.....
I'm also betting that both Woods and Tedesco have horrible SOO games as their form this year has been significantly below what we have come to expect of them...and I would not be surprised if somehow it will all come back to being the WT's fault....bring on 2018...I seriously can't wait to see the back of Woods and to a lesser extent Tedesco...

 

[jirskyr]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

What nonsense.

Who is decimating the team? The roster we had in 2016 went within 1 win of the finals. A bit better early-season form, just one close loss going the other way and we are playing finals football. It's not a great roster but it was finals-capable.

Everything that has happened in 2017 has been the result of prolonged contract negotiations, media scrutiny and the resulting disaffected performances on the field.

There is absolutely no reason why a roster 95% identical to last year's should not have come in and picked up from Round 25 2016, the Raiders drubbing notwithstanding.

But they didn't. To now be called upon a halves pairing of JLJ and Rankin - well that's Mitchell Moses' fault primarily. To be down in attack offerings, that's again Moses fault but also Tedesco's. That is what they are being paid for. Don't underestimate how much the non-Tigers fans are noting Tedesco's drop in form this year.

Every club spends more or less the salary cap. It depends on what you do with the cap. Our roster start of 2017 was capable of playing finals footy, they just needed to lift themselves 10%. Turns out they couldn't do it, couldn't save the coach so he got the axe for his own performance, but also the performance of the players.

Every coach that gets the hook, some of that blood is on the hands of the players. Like Sheens said, players remove coaches.

You are in the super small 5% minority of fans if you feel it's mostly the club's fault what happened in 2017 and not the players. The club has overhauled everything over the last 3-4 seasons, every position has been changed from the top of the board, CEO, Football Manager, coach, assistance coaches. You can't ask for more change than that - everyone with responsibility has paid for failure and moved on. EXCEPT some of the players.

Well now it's the reckoning, the new guy has come in and issued ultimatums to these players to step up and bring the team forward. And what happened? They all quit, they are all quitters. Why blame the club for your loss of form? Have some ownership of your own output.

Do you think casual NSW Blues fans are stoked about Woods being picked for SOO? Have you even read the chatter? He got in by the skin of his teeth, people are not impressed about how he has behaved on and off the field this year. Ditto Tedesco, he's lucky Moylan is playing like a busted too. Farah, well they've pulled the plug on him just slightly slower than the Tigers did.

 

[Telltails]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

What nonsense.

Who is decimating the team? The roster we had in 2016 went within 1 win of the finals. A bit better early-season form, just one close loss going the other way and we are playing finals football. It's not a great roster but it was finals-capable.

Everything that has happened in 2017 has been the result of prolonged contract negotiations, media scrutiny and the resulting disaffected performances on the field.

There is absolutely no reason why a roster 95% identical to last year's should not have come in and picked up from Round 25 2016, the Raiders drubbing notwithstanding.

But they didn't. To now be called upon a halves pairing of JLJ and Rankin - well that's Mitchell Moses' fault primarily. To be down in attack offerings, that's again Moses fault but also Tedesco's. That is what they are being paid for. Don't underestimate how much the non-Tigers fans are noting Tedesco's drop in form this year.

Every club spends more or less the salary cap. It depends on what you do with the cap. Our roster start of 2017 was capable of playing finals footy, they just needed to lift themselves 10%. Turns out they couldn't do it, couldn't save the coach so he got the axe for his own performance, but also the performance of the players.

Every coach that gets the hook, some of that blood is on the hands of the players. Like Sheens said, players remove coaches.

You are in the super small 5% minority of fans if you feel it's mostly the club's fault what happened in 2017 and not the players. The club has overhauled everything over the last 3-4 seasons, every position has been changed from the top of the board, CEO, Football Manager, coach, assistance coaches. You can't ask for more change than that - everyone with responsibility has paid for failure and moved on. EXCEPT some of the players.

Well now it's the reckoning, the new guy has come in and issued ultimatums to these players to step up and bring the team forward. And what happened? They all quit, they are all quitters. Why blame the club for your loss of form? Have some ownership of your own output.

Do you think casual NSW Blues fans are stoked about Woods being picked for SOO? Have you even read the chatter? He got in by the skin of his teeth, people are not impressed about how he has behaved on and off the field this year. Ditto Tedesco, he's lucky Moylan is playing like a busted too. Farah, well they've pulled the plug on him just slightly slower than the Tigers did.

I dont give a rats about casual Blues fans. Every fan has differing views about who is selected in SOO teams every year. The same people who didnt rate Woods last year wouldnt rate him this year.
As far as form goes wouldnt matter how he played atm with you because you are filthy at him. Against the Bulldogs he was outstanding and then he got injured the following week.
You can choose to ignore that the club is responsible for player retention and recruitment and managing the cap like every other clubs management is, and you can spin it which ever way you want but results will show you when you measure our club against other clubs they have under performed consistently, just like our team has.

 

[PD77]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

What nonsense.

Who is decimating the team? The roster we had in 2016 went within 1 win of the finals. A bit better early-season form, just one close loss going the other way and we are playing finals football. It's not a great roster but it was finals-capable.

Everything that has happened in 2017 has been the result of prolonged contract negotiations, media scrutiny and the resulting disaffected performances on the field.

There is absolutely no reason why a roster 95% identical to last year's should not have come in and picked up from Round 25 2016, the Raiders drubbing notwithstanding.

But they didn't. To now be called upon a halves pairing of JLJ and Rankin - well that's Mitchell Moses' fault primarily. To be down in attack offerings, that's again Moses fault but also Tedesco's. That is what they are being paid for. Don't underestimate how much the non-Tigers fans are noting Tedesco's drop in form this year.

Every club spends more or less the salary cap. It depends on what you do with the cap. Our roster start of 2017 was capable of playing finals footy, they just needed to lift themselves 10%. Turns out they couldn't do it, couldn't save the coach so he got the axe for his own performance, but also the performance of the players.

Every coach that gets the hook, some of that blood is on the hands of the players. Like Sheens said, players remove coaches.

You are in the super small 5% minority of fans if you feel it's mostly the club's fault what happened in 2017 and not the players. The club has overhauled everything over the last 3-4 seasons, every position has been changed from the top of the board, CEO, Football Manager, coach, assistance coaches. You can't ask for more change than that - everyone with responsibility has paid for failure and moved on. EXCEPT some of the players.

Well now it's the reckoning, the new guy has come in and issued ultimatums to these players to step up and bring the team forward. And what happened? They all quit, they are all quitters. Why blame the club for your loss of form? Have some ownership of your own output.

Do you think casual NSW Blues fans are stoked about Woods being picked for SOO? Have you even read the chatter? He got in by the skin of his teeth, people are not impressed about how he has behaved on and off the field this year. Ditto Tedesco, he's lucky Moylan is playing like a busted too. Farah, well they've pulled the plug on him just slightly slower than the Tigers did.

X2

 

[mike]

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

What nonsense.

Who is decimating the team? The roster we had in 2016 went within 1 win of the finals. A bit better early-season form, just one close loss going the other way and we are playing finals football. It's not a great roster but it was finals-capable.

Everything that has happened in 2017 has been the result of prolonged contract negotiations, media scrutiny and the resulting disaffected performances on the field.

There is absolutely no reason why a roster 95% identical to last year's should not have come in and picked up from Round 25 2016, the Raiders drubbing notwithstanding.

But they didn't. To now be called upon a halves pairing of JLJ and Rankin - well that's Mitchell Moses' fault primarily. To be down in attack offerings, that's again Moses fault but also Tedesco's. That is what they are being paid for. Don't underestimate how much the non-Tigers fans are noting Tedesco's drop in form this year.

Every club spends more or less the salary cap. It depends on what you do with the cap. Our roster start of 2017 was capable of playing finals footy, they just needed to lift themselves 10%. Turns out they couldn't do it, couldn't save the coach so he got the axe for his own performance, but also the performance of the players.

Every coach that gets the hook, some of that blood is on the hands of the players. Like Sheens said, players remove coaches.

You are in the super small 5% minority of fans if you feel it's mostly the club's fault what happened in 2017 and not the players. The club has overhauled everything over the last 3-4 seasons, every position has been changed from the top of the board, CEO, Football Manager, coach, assistance coaches. You can't ask for more change than that - everyone with responsibility has paid for failure and moved on. EXCEPT some of the players.

Well now it's the reckoning, the new guy has come in and issued ultimatums to these players to step up and bring the team forward. And what happened? They all quit, they are all quitters. Why blame the club for your loss of form? Have some ownership of your own output.

Do you think casual NSW Blues fans are stoked about Woods being picked for SOO? Have you even read the chatter? He got in by the skin of his teeth, people are not impressed about how he has behaved on and off the field this year. Ditto Tedesco, he's lucky Moylan is playing like a busted too. Farah, well they've pulled the plug on him just slightly slower than the Tigers did.

X2

X3

 

[TigerSJ]

I can see both sides of the argument. The dynamics of a consistently winning team are complicated and it takes a lot of things to be right. It is a gross over simplification to blame specific players or the current playing group or the coach or the board alone. Sure it all starts at the top with strong and decisive management that makes good long term decisions whilst maintaining the culture and history of the club. In the recent decade we started to decline in this area with the treatment of Benji and some other loyal players and the huge mismanagement of the cap. The Wests vs Balmain struggles also still seem to create friction within and until everybody moves on we will continue to have disharmony.
Years ago I remember repeatedly questioning the recruitment and retention policies of the club - the list of Ex Tigers vs the list of replacement players was a joke - and we all know where mismanagement of this area has led us.
Then we have made choices on coach selection that haven't really worked out for us for a whole lot of reasons relating to the Board members support, certain players in the team, quality of our roster and those particular coaches ability. Our Roster of players has never had quality depth so we have suffered greatly when key players have been injured. So many player issues, the media commentary, and so on, and so on…..you could write a book!
My point is if you examine each inter-related area that is required to make up the successful formula, you will find we have been underperforming in it for some reason. In the end this has all led to a lack of winning culture and belief that now pervades our club.
What can we do.....There have been changes in management over the last couple of years. I do not know enough about specific Board members and how long they have been in office so I cant comment on whether they need to be moved on in the interest of the Club, but I do believe that a big clean out of our Roster accompanied with Ivan's management and the building of a different culture will go a long way to making us competitive in the future.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Yes the team is broken. The core leadership group let the team down. Not by signing elsewhere every player has that right but it's how they let their teammates down while they were trying to secure their own futures. It was the most selfish sequences from players I've seen in a long time and it was lead by the "club captain" and they have already checked out (Tedesco and woods) so you can't blame the others for not wanting to play with them. It's just all disharmony. 2018 will be different. The culture change is in effect. Just have to rid the dead wood

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. **They've played extremely poor footy** and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

Actually aside from Moses I don't think that's true at all.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Great post. These traitors have let the whole team and the club down. They've played extremely poor footy and dragging this on for as long as they have just to get themselves the maximum possible money and any special deals that they want killed this season and a coach.

I don't see things as being that bad though post this season.

I've also never seen such grubby behaviour from a group of players.

No the current team leaders got sick of listening to the real leaders of the club who have decimated their team to the point where we are fielding what most consider is a reserve grade side.
Very easy for those players to take the money and stay - there was plenty on offer - but there is more that motivates them and they had the options to get it elsewhere.
We have had plenty of time to get our house in order and we havnt and the days of loyalty are well and truly over.As a club we proved that last year.
It was probably the wake up call the club needed and we can only hope that from now on the club makes good decisions so we are the club attracting quality players instead of watching them play for other teams.

What nonsense.

Who is decimating the team? The roster we had in 2016 went within 1 win of the finals. A bit better early-season form, just one close loss going the other way and we are playing finals football. It's not a great roster but it was finals-capable.

Everything that has happened in 2017 has been the result of prolonged contract negotiations, media scrutiny and the resulting disaffected performances on the field.

There is absolutely no reason why a roster 95% identical to last year's should not have come in and picked up from Round 25 2016, the Raiders drubbing notwithstanding.

But they didn't. To now be called upon a halves pairing of JLJ and Rankin - well that's Mitchell Moses' fault primarily. To be down in attack offerings, that's again Moses fault but also Tedesco's. That is what they are being paid for. Don't underestimate how much the non-Tigers fans are noting Tedesco's drop in form this year.

Every club spends more or less the salary cap. It depends on what you do with the cap. Our roster start of 2017 was capable of playing finals footy, they just needed to lift themselves 10%. Turns out they couldn't do it, couldn't save the coach so he got the axe for his own performance, but also the performance of the players.

Every coach that gets the hook, some of that blood is on the hands of the players. Like Sheens said, players remove coaches.

You are in the super small 5% minority of fans if you feel it's mostly the club's fault what happened in 2017 and not the players. The club has overhauled everything over the last 3-4 seasons, every position has been changed from the top of the board, CEO, Football Manager, coach, assistance coaches. You can't ask for more change than that - everyone with responsibility has paid for failure and moved on. EXCEPT some of the players.

Well now it's the reckoning, the new guy has come in and issued ultimatums to these players to step up and bring the team forward. And what happened? They all quit, they are all quitters. Why blame the club for your loss of form? Have some ownership of your own output.

Do you think casual NSW Blues fans are stoked about Woods being picked for SOO? Have you even read the chatter? He got in by the skin of his teeth, people are not impressed about how he has behaved on and off the field this year. Ditto Tedesco, he's lucky Moylan is playing like a busted too. Farah, well they've pulled the plug on him just slightly slower than the Tigers did.

I dont give a rats about casual Blues fans. Every fan has differing views about who is selected in SOO teams every year. The same people who didnt rate Woods last year wouldnt rate him this year.
As far as form goes wouldnt matter how he played atm with you because you are filthy at him. Against the Bulldogs he was outstanding and then he got injured the following week.
You can choose to ignore that the club is responsible for player retention and recruitment and managing the cap like every other clubs management is, and you can spin it which ever way you want but results will show you when you measure our club against other clubs they have under performed consistently, just like our team has.

Spot on!

 

[jirskyr]

I dont give a rats about casual Blues fans. Every fan has differing views about who is selected in SOO teams every year. The same people who didnt rate Woods last year wouldnt rate him this year.
As far as form goes wouldnt matter how he played atm with you because you are filthy at him. Against the Bulldogs he was outstanding and then he got injured the following week.
You can choose to ignore that the club is responsible for player retention and recruitment and managing the cap like every other clubs management is, and you can spin it which ever way you want but results will show you when you measure our club against other clubs they have under performed consistently, just like our team has.

You should give a rats about the average Blues fan, because their opinion is as valuable as yours. Yes it's true that people who didn't rate Woods in 2016 don't rate him in 2017, the issue you should be concerned about is the people who DID rate him in 2016 who DON'T in 2017.

That's not me by the way, I think he does his job and based on previous performances for NSW, though his Tigers form is down a bit, he should be there… and there isn't a long line of NSW props out-performing him over a consistent period.

I would not and do not ignore the club being responsible for recruitment and retention. We have a roster, the competency of that roster is a matter of opinion. Based on results only, it's an average roster.

But you never addressed my comment - this team was basically good enough to get within 1 win of the finals. A little better performance 2016 and they make the finals. That same side is reeling 2017, not even close to threatening the Top 8\. Is that recruitment and retention's fault? Maybe it's the coaches fault, definitely coaching changed. But the other constant is PLAYERS.

So results are based on off-field management and on-field performance, we all know that. Certainly players need the support off-field to ensure they can perform to their best. But at some point you have to look at the players, at some point the finger pointing has to stop and you just need a basic level of performance from the side, a basic level of energy, commitment to the jersey, of effort each week, of discipline.

I don't think we are seeing that, I think many fans agree. I think we are seeing a LACK of consistent performance and discipline and it's compounding whatever emotional/mental issues that exist with off-field turmoil.

Fans would be fine if a player chose to move on but simultaneously played clearly strong and enthusiastic football. Honestly I think maybe only Ava has maintained his form since negotiating a new contract with another club, everyone else their form has dropped. It's not acceptable.

 

[Balmainbred]

Well said telltails i quote 1 jack Gibson "it all starts on a Monday morning in the front office"

 

[Telltails]

I dont give a rats about casual Blues fans. Every fan has differing views about who is selected in SOO teams every year. The same people who didnt rate Woods last year wouldnt rate him this year.
As far as form goes wouldnt matter how he played atm with you because you are filthy at him. Against the Bulldogs he was outstanding and then he got injured the following week.
You can choose to ignore that the club is responsible for player retention and recruitment and managing the cap like every other clubs management is, and you can spin it which ever way you want but results will show you when you measure our club against other clubs they have under performed consistently, just like our team has.

You should give a rats about the average Blues fan, because their opinion is as valuable as yours. Yes it's true that people who didn't rate Woods in 2016 don't rate him in 2017, the issue you should be concerned about is the people who DID rate him in 2016 who DON'T in 2017.

That's not me by the way, I think he does his job and based on previous performances for NSW, though his Tigers form is down a bit, he should be there… and there isn't a long line of NSW props out-performing him over a consistent period.

I would not and do not ignore the club being responsible for recruitment and retention. We have a roster, the competency of that roster is a matter of opinion. Based on results only, it's an average roster.

But you never addressed my comment - this team was basically good enough to get within 1 win of the finals. A little better performance 2016 and they make the finals. That same side is reeling 2017, not even close to threatening the Top 8\. Is that recruitment and retention's fault? Maybe it's the coaches fault, definitely coaching changed. But the other constant is PLAYERS.

So results are based on off-field management and on-field performance, we all know that. Certainly players need the support off-field to ensure they can perform to their best. But at some point you have to look at the players, at some point the finger pointing has to stop and you just need a basic level of performance from the side, a basic level of energy, commitment to the jersey, of effort each week, of discipline.

I don't think we are seeing that, I think many fans agree. I think we are seeing a LACK of consistent performance and discipline and it's compounding whatever emotional/mental issues that exist with off-field turmoil.

Fans would be fine if a player chose to move on but simultaneously played clearly strong and enthusiastic football. Honestly I think maybe only Ava has maintained his form since negotiating a new contract with another club, everyone else their form has dropped. It's not acceptable.

Again you can spin it anyway you want but it is a results based game and our record shows we have performed poorly in all facets - and accountablity always starts at the top.
Whether Teddy and Woods handled the contract talks admirably or not, does not excuse the fact that we have promised better results for years and not delivered - and as two over achievers in a poor performing club they cant be held responsible for our lack of success or development as a team. Our current roster is as weak as I can remember it for some time - and yet until Simona was cut their was suggestion that we had cap issues!
Our decision makers/ management have offered little more than things will be better next year, and hopefully it will. One year too late it seems for Teddy and Woods, and the Roosters and the Bulldogs like clubs in strong positions do - took full advantage of it.