Its not all about the players

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

 

[jirskyr]

Stick with the coach.

All you blokes banging om about dumping Madge seem to fail to realise that dumping coaches is part of the core that makes Wests Tigers fail.

Lamb dumped, Sheens dumped, Potter not re-signed, JT dumped, Ivan got a better offer.

You guys want to achieve success by repeating the same mistakes Tigers have already made. No, you do something different by actually sticking with a coach for once and giving the club and players a chance to figure out a winning system over time.

Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart prime examples of letting the coach run.

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, **bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.**

How could you possibly know that? sorry another silly statement.

TigerWest is right - its an opinion and nothing more. John Morris didn't get overlooked at Cronulla because he is an ace coach.

He had them playing a really good style of football with zero cap to work with. He got the firing and playing tough. For all his fluff about being a tough coach, Madge’s style of play isn’t tough at all.

So you may think it’s just an opinion but I can’t imagine anyone who would be worse than Madge at the moment.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

 

[cochise]

Stick with the coach.

All you blokes banging om about dumping Madge seem to fail to realise that dumping coaches is part of the core that makes Wests Tigers fail.

Lamb dumped, Sheens dumped, Potter not re-signed, JT dumped, Ivan got a better offer.

You guys want to achieve success by repeating the same mistakes Tigers have already made. No, you do something different by actually sticking with a coach for once and giving the club and players a chance to figure out a winning system over time.

Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart prime examples of letting the coach run.

It is a hard one, as I don't believe things are progressing well under him at the moment and he is a hinderance to attracting the higher quality players that we need but I don't want to sack another coach and start again. I would like to see someone like Morris brought in as an assistant who has good relationships with players and has a better understanding of game planning for the modern game.

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It would be impossible to disagree with you more. The lower grades are going well due to Hartigan and the coaches. The top grade is not having the same success due to the coach. He’ll be moved on soon anyway so one of us will be proved right or wrong.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

 

[Madge]

Stick with the coach.

All you blokes banging om about dumping Madge seem to fail to realise that dumping coaches is part of the core that makes Wests Tigers fail.

Lamb dumped, Sheens dumped, Potter not re-signed, JT dumped, Ivan got a better offer.

You guys want to achieve success by repeating the same mistakes Tigers have already made. No, you do something different by actually sticking with a coach for once and giving the club and players a chance to figure out a winning system over time.

Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart prime examples of letting the coach run.

It is a hard one, as I don't believe things are progressing well under him at the moment and he is a hinderance to attracting the higher quality players that we need but I don't want to sack another coach and start again. I would like to see someone like Morris brought in as an assistant who has good relationships with players and has a better understanding of game planning for the modern game.

This is exactly where I stand.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

It’s a team effort all round. I’ve seen Madge at most of the KOEC games giving his input both directly to players or via the coaching staff

 

[Telltails]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

Gardiner has worked with Maguire at South's and as the NZ assistant. The lower grade coaches were moved on to make room for him. Do you think Maguire may have had a role in that?

 

[Geo]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It would be impossible to disagree with you more. The lower grades are going well due to Hartigan and the coaches. The top grade is not having the same success due to the coach. He’ll be moved on soon anyway so one of us will be proved right or wrong.

The State Cup is doing well more so because the standard this year is poor thb.. it’s Penrith and us.. we will know more in a few weeks when we play them.. Gardner is doing a great job in getting them motivated each week with the up and down of personnel...the structures flow from the top grade down..more than half train with FG each week with 3 sessions together at most for State Cup

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

Gardiner has worked with Maguire at South's and as the NZ assistant. The lower grade coaches were moved on to make room for him. Do you think Maguire may have had a role in that?

That is a good point mate. I am just over the rubbish game plan we have seen this season from our first grade squad. At times it has been difficult to see what we were actually trying to achieve in games.

The only sign of adjustment with game planning I have seen this season was the move of Mbye to 5/8th to try and get the outside backs earlier ball. That was definitely a gameplan adjustment as the reason for Madden being on the bench was as backup if Mbye didn't work in that role. Madden's biggest strength at this point in his career is the fact he give early ball.

 

[TigerWest]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

He’s the head coach, so doesn’t all structures come down from him?

We have shown we can do it, just can’t do it consistently.

I think it’s blatantly obvious, we don’t have all the cattle as yet.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

He’s the head coach, so doesn’t all structures come down from him?

We have shown we can do it, just can’t do it consistently.

I think it’s blatantly obvious, we don’t have all the cattle as yet.

I am more concern about the lack of game plan and incredibly poor defensive structures.

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Stick with the coach.

All you blokes banging om about dumping Madge seem to fail to realise that dumping coaches is part of the core that makes Wests Tigers fail.

Lamb dumped, Sheens dumped, Potter not re-signed, JT dumped, Ivan got a better offer.

You guys want to achieve success by repeating the same mistakes Tigers have already made. No, you do something different by actually sticking with a coach for once and giving the club and players a chance to figure out a winning system over time.

Brad Arthur and Ricky Stuart prime examples of letting the coach run.

It is a hard one, as I don't believe things are progressing well under him at the moment and he is a hinderance to attracting the higher quality players that we need but I don't want to sack another coach and start again. I would like to see someone like Morris brought in as an assistant who has good relationships with players and has a better understanding of game planning for the modern game.

This is exactly where I stand.

Well Madge do something about it! ?