Its not all about the players

[TheDaBoss]

We will make finals under Madge....

This year?

Before the warriors game i would of said yes 100%

Now im.a bit iffy atm, ill say yes for now, i think we will sneak into 8th

Next year however..gonna be a real nice yea for tigera fans imo

Wow you really think we’re gonna make the 8 this year based on what you’ve seen of us so far? Kudos for your optimism, I can’t even see where our next win is coming from! Maybe the Dogs, but even they’re due for a win, which will most likely be against us because we’ll be expected to win.

It would be great if we could be the first team to break panthers winning streak lol

I think we will win this week

 

[avocadoontoast]

We will make finals under Madge....

This year?

Before the warriors game i would of said yes 100%

Now im.a bit iffy atm, ill say yes for now, i think we will sneak into 8th

Next year however..gonna be a real nice yea for tigera fans imo

Lol haven't you tipped us to come first the last two years

Nothing wrong with a bit of optimism mate

Being optimistic isn't going to affect the results

 

[TheDaBoss]

We will make finals under Madge....

This year?

Before the warriors game i would of said yes 100%

Now im.a bit iffy atm, ill say yes for now, i think we will sneak into 8th

Next year however..gonna be a real nice yea for tigera fans imo

Lol haven't you tipped us to come first the last two years

Nothing wrong with a bit of optimism mate

Being optimistic isn't going to affect the results

I would rather be optimistic about winning than just being a downer and saying wooden spoon, etc etc.... im not that type of bloke

 

[avocadoontoast]

We will make finals under Madge....

This year?

Before the warriors game i would of said yes 100%

Now im.a bit iffy atm, ill say yes for now, i think we will sneak into 8th

Next year however..gonna be a real nice yea for tigera fans imo

Lol haven't you tipped us to come first the last two years

Nothing wrong with a bit of optimism mate

Being optimistic isn't going to affect the results

I would rather be optimistic about winning than just being a downer and saying wooden spoon, etc etc.... im not that type of bloke

Hey man, if it makes you feel better about things good for you.

 

[mike]

We will make finals under Madge....

This year?

Before the warriors game i would of said yes 100%

Now im.a bit iffy atm, ill say yes for now, i think we will sneak into 8th

Next year however..gonna be a real nice yea for tigera fans imo

Wow you really think we’re gonna make the 8 this year based on what you’ve seen of us so far? Kudos for your optimism, I can’t even see where our next win is coming from! Maybe the Dogs, but even they’re due for a win, which will most likely be against us because we’ll be expected to win.

It would be great if we could be the first team to break panthers winning streak lol

I think we will win this week

I won’t be picking us so chances are high.

 

[sleeve]

This is a rediculous post. I believe we can promote whoever we like now. So i would leave Laurie, AD, and Brooks, drop the rest and bring up all of the replacements from the cup side.
They have the cohesian and skill to perform at a better standard. We won't win anyway, and it might send a message to the turtles in our backline. lol.

 

[jirskyr]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

It’s a team effort all round. I’ve seen Madge at most of the KOEC games giving his input both directly to players or via the coaching staff

It's not just about Madge being present at reserve grade matches or whatever - the true core of the Magpies side are Top 30 players who were signed with and train with firsts: Madden, Walters, Hoffman, Cini, Tuilagi, Simpkin, Simpkins, Mikaele, Musgrove, Amone, Packer, Stefano. All playing significant amount of reggies this year and all Top 30 unless I am mistaken (there are 31 listed on the Teams website, so someone is over, I think it's Kei).

The reserve grade side is good in 2021 because they have a lot of players who are not quite NRL level but a cut-above reserves. These are Madge's players, by whatever route they took to join Tigers. He is training them pre-season and weekly.

 

[jirskyr]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

Doesn’t seem to be an issue in the lower grades.

And that’s why we need to stick solid. Things are improving slowly. Changing the coach again will only give the players the freedom to be soft. If it’s to hard for them blame the coach and they can just sit back and continue with their poor attitude and performances. The players are the problem and have been for 10 years. It has to stop now.

Sorry but that’s just a cop out Mike. The lower grades are doing well despite Madge being at the club, not the other way around.

They are doing well because Madge is at the club. Haritgan had been an improvement for recruiting and Madge is showing them what is needed to win and that’s not to sook but do the hard work.

It really depends how much involvement Madge has in that, I know there is a lot of respect in the club for the job Gardiner is doing with the reserve grade players.

Gardiner is doing a great job, no doubt.

Yeah so its a legitimate question to ask whether the success in the lower grades is a reflection of Madge or because of the hard work of others.

He’s the head coach, so doesn’t all structures come down from him?

We have shown we can do it, just can’t do it consistently.

I think it’s blatantly obvious, we don’t have all the cattle as yet.

I am more concern about the lack of game plan and incredibly poor defensive structures.

I think the game plan is actually fine, we regularly score more than 20 points per match and that's supposed to be enough to win half your games or more (which in itself is enough to make finals).

Definitely defence is the issue, not the gameplan IMO. Get the defence right, keep opponents in the teens (or better) and we start winning far more matches.

 

[jirskyr]

I still cant believe that people blame the coach when players fail to tackle the opposition player because of arm grabbing or not completing tackles and allowing them to easily offload,find support..
these NRL CONTRACTED PLAYERS are on a wage to do a job,albeit some younger guys learning....Most in our squad should know the basics of the game....blame the coach,the assistants,the ball boys etc etc...
Our roster isnt up to top 8 teams, yet Madge gets the blame everytime the PLAYERS dont do their job properly that they were employed to do...

Madge definately has his faults,failing this club isnt one of them,the players are failing the themselves and the club...
The sooner people realise this harsh reality the better..

I blame him more for the poor game plan and terrible defensive structures. Still probably wouldn't sack him but I am getting closer.

Coshise,have you played the game at a reasonable level ?
The coach can have all the gameplans and structures in place, if the players cant comprehend how to play to those plans than what does that tell you...
eg I had a great coach in my day who was very strict,but fair,if I played and did my job,but my teamate(s) didnt do theirs,how would that reflect on the result..they all have to work as a unit and until all this team starts working as one we will lose to the better teams that do work as a unit ...the Warriors game should have shown you what happens when you play as a unit and want to win more,,,our team thought they done enough to win but were beaten by a team working together to win the game...pretty simple if you have the football smarts ....

This is one thing I don't like about your posts mate, this attitude of you played the game so you know better than others.

Yeah mate I played the game, yes at a reasonable level, actually played with one of the coaches people want as our coach, also coached the game and I think I am up to 3 NRL players I coached in their teens. Is my resume up to your standards for having an opinion?

Our defensive structures are as poor as I have seen at NRL level, I am not talking about missed tackles I am talking about how we defend, some of that is down to decision making but it is clear that some of these things are tactics.. The selection of Joffa in the second row was unforgivable, as I know for a fact Madge knew he wasn't a second rower. The game plan has been poor and there has been one noticeable sign of an adjustment in that plan. Players also don't want to sign with the club to play under him.

In saying all that, I wouldn't sack him but you can't say there aren't concerns.

So you would rather a keyboard warrior give an opinion that hasnt played the game...Ive never said anything about you personally,but you dont like my posts because I try to put some real perspective on the situations having played the game and been coached in my younger days by a person who played for Australia...
Forgive me father for I have sinned...

The part that gets people offside is "have you ever played the game?". Very condescending even if you don't mean it that way. And I agree overall with your argument about coach and players, it's just that you don't need to have played first-grade or rep football to have some idea how the game should/could be played.

Plenty of coaches out there who were very average sportspersons due to athleticism or injury or circumstance, but doesn't change the fact they have sharp sporting intellect.

Actually, and I know all of the following played footy at some decent level for some period, but the 3 best coaches in the modern game - Bellyache, Robinson, Bennett - were all pretty average footballers with modest (or worse) careers.

 

[jirskyr]

Wests Tigers selections have been by choice not forced…it’s ridiculous

Arguable they have been forced - by poor performance.

 

[jirskyr]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

 

[jirskyr]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.


That first line exemplifies your posts perfectly

Why do you continue to bring up the number of coaches we’ve been through when that only makes my argument more valid. You’re literally on your own in saying that culture has nothing to do with performance; as I’ve said this attitude is a major roadblock in terms of moving forward.

At least you’ve stopped ragging Madge - something got through, finally

Let's stop the blame shifting. What other club other than WTs would out up with the miserable results Maguire has achieved to date? That is part of the culture issue itself!

Parramatta
Raiders
Titans
Warriors
Dragons

Once you start cutting coaches due to lack of results, you sort of can't stop unless the club jags a win here and there.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

We had some great results under Cleary and he has taken his coaching to a even higher level at the Panthers . My expectations are not unrealistic. I consider an improvement in our on-field performance to be acceptable, if wins are not possible. This has not occurred and quite the opposite may be happening. In any case, even the most rusted on Maguire fan must now be quietly having serious misgivngs.

 

[twentyforty]

We all know by now that our backline is slow and lacks skill.
We were not favorites against the Warriors, we lost by a small margin. We have improved, and should have won,. The loss was due to the fact the same dud players who cost us previously , did it again. These should be gone or replaced this year. Till that happens no coach in the world will succeed with this side.

Looking forward to playing against the dogs, we stand a very big chance of running out as favourites for the first time? Gotta laugh sometimes.. we are that snowball heading to hell and everyone is blaming the coach 😁 he’s our last man standing and he had the courage to take on the job, but still under more pressure than a sumo’s belt buckle. 😂 I suppose as time passes he will get the recognition and respect he deserves?

 

[jirskyr]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

We had some great results under Cleary and he has taken his coaching to a even higher level at the Panthers . My expectations are not unrealistic. I consider an improvement in our on-field performance to be acceptable, if wins are not possible. This has not occurred and quite the opposite may be happening. In any case, even the most rusted on Maguire fan must now be quietly having serious misgivngs.

Do you remember these results?

2018
Aug 30th Round 25 A South Sydney L 10 - 51 I Cleary C Lawrence ANZ - finals qualifier
Jul 27th Round 20 A Canterbury L 4 - 16 I Cleary E Taylor ANZ
Jun 10th Round 14 A Cronulla L 16 - 24 I Cleary J Reynolds Southern Cross 13,093 9th View
Jun 17th Round 15 H Canberra L 12 - 48 I Cleary R Packer Campbelltown 10,237 10th View
Jul 1st Round 16 H Gold Coast Titans L 12 - 30 I Cleary E Taylor Leichhardt 16,984 10th

2017
Mar 12th Round 2 H Penrith L 2 - 36 J Taylor A Woods Campbelltown 12,232 12th View
Mar 19th Round 3 A Canberra L 6 - 46 J Taylor A Woods GIO Stadium 15,628 16th View
Mar 26th Round 4 H Melbourne L 14 - 22 A Webster A Woods Leichhardt 12,649 16th View
Apr 2nd Round 5 H St George Illawarra L 6 - 28 A Webster A Woods ANZ 13,172 16th View
Apr 17th Round 7 A Parramatta L 22 - 26 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 28,249 14th View
Apr 29th Round 9 H Cronulla L 16 - 22 I Cleary A Woods Leichhardt 13,405 14th View
May 12th Round 10 H South Sydney L 8 - 28 I Cleary C Lawrence ANZ 12,213 15th View
May 19th Round 11 A Brisbane L 0 - 36 I Cleary A Woods Suncorp 21,197 15th View
Jun 3rd Round 13 A St George Illawarra L 12 - 16 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 12,983 15th View
Jun 11th Round 14 H Sydney L 18 - 40 I Cleary A Woods Campbelltown 10,066 15th View
Jun 17th Round 15 A Cronulla L 22 - 24 I Cleary E Taylor Southern Cross 11,695 16th View
Jun 23rd Round 16 H Gold Coast Titans L 14 - 26 I Cleary A Woods Campbelltown 6,891 16th View
Jul 16th Round 19 A Manly Warringah L 16 - 28 I Cleary A Woods Lottoland 14,128 15th View
Jul 23rd Round 20 H Parramatta L 16 - 17 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 30,901 15th

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.


That first line exemplifies your posts perfectly

Why do you continue to bring up the number of coaches we’ve been through when that only makes my argument more valid. You’re literally on your own in saying that culture has nothing to do with performance; as I’ve said this attitude is a major roadblock in terms of moving forward.

At least you’ve stopped ragging Madge - something got through, finally

Let's stop the blame shifting. What other club other than WTs would out up with the miserable results Maguire has achieved to date? That is part of the culture issue itself!

Parramatta
Raiders
Titans
Warriors
Dragons

Once you start cutting coaches due to lack of results, you sort of can't stop unless the club jags a win here and there.

Coaches survive by their results. All of those clubs bar one have defeated WTs. Had we shown an improvement in our performances demonstrating that we are on an upward trajectory, that would give hope. Sadly it's not the case.

 

[TrueTiger]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

We had some great results under Cleary and he has taken his coaching to a even higher level at the Panthers . My expectations are not unrealistic. I consider an improvement in our on-field performance to be acceptable, if wins are not possible. This has not occurred and quite the opposite may be happening. In any case, even the most rusted on Maguire fan must now be quietly having serious misgivngs.

Ivan also has another level of player at his disposal to coach...through hard work and time he had a good platform to start with...our team isnt anywhere near the quality of player Ivan was given,thats why he dumped us to take an easier route to glory...Madge has to do it the hard way and with Hartigans help build his own platform to stand on...I still support Madge 100 percent on what he is trying to achieve,through hard work and honesty....

 

[pawsandclaws1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

We had some great results under Cleary and he has taken his coaching to a even higher level at the Panthers . My expectations are not unrealistic. I consider an improvement in our on-field performance to be acceptable, if wins are not possible. This has not occurred and quite the opposite may be happening. In any case, even the most rusted on Maguire fan must now be quietly having serious misgivngs.

Ivan also has another level of player at his disposal to coach...through hard work and time he had a good platform to start with...our team isnt anywhere near the quality of player Ivan was given,thats why he dumped us to take an easier route to glory...Madge has to do it the hard way and with Hartigans help build his own platform to stand on...I still support Madge 100 percent on what he is trying to achieve,through hard work and honesty....

TT I admire your commitment. I doubt Maguire would have the Panthers winning as they are if he were in charge. The players at Penrith are responding to Cleary's coaching.

 

[Geo]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

Cleary had us performing against the best teams. We beat the Storm. Maguire is not at his coaching level.

That was 6 rounds mate. 18 wins from 43 games (42%) which is barely better than Madge has with Tigers now.

We had some great results under Cleary and he has taken his coaching to a even higher level at the Panthers . My expectations are not unrealistic. I consider an improvement in our on-field performance to be acceptable, if wins are not possible. This has not occurred and quite the opposite may be happening. In any case, even the most rusted on Maguire fan must now be quietly having serious misgivngs.

Do you remember these results?

2018
Aug 30th Round 25 A South Sydney L 10 - 51 I Cleary C Lawrence ANZ - finals qualifier
Jul 27th Round 20 A Canterbury L 4 - 16 I Cleary E Taylor ANZ
Jun 10th Round 14 A Cronulla L 16 - 24 I Cleary J Reynolds Southern Cross 13,093 9th View
Jun 17th Round 15 H Canberra L 12 - 48 I Cleary R Packer Campbelltown 10,237 10th View
Jul 1st Round 16 H Gold Coast Titans L 12 - 30 I Cleary E Taylor Leichhardt 16,984 10th

2017
Mar 12th Round 2 H Penrith L 2 - 36 J Taylor A Woods Campbelltown 12,232 12th View
Mar 19th Round 3 A Canberra L 6 - 46 J Taylor A Woods GIO Stadium 15,628 16th View
Mar 26th Round 4 H Melbourne L 14 - 22 A Webster A Woods Leichhardt 12,649 16th View
Apr 2nd Round 5 H St George Illawarra L 6 - 28 A Webster A Woods ANZ 13,172 16th View
Apr 17th Round 7 A Parramatta L 22 - 26 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 28,249 14th View
Apr 29th Round 9 H Cronulla L 16 - 22 I Cleary A Woods Leichhardt 13,405 14th View
May 12th Round 10 H South Sydney L 8 - 28 I Cleary C Lawrence ANZ 12,213 15th View
May 19th Round 11 A Brisbane L 0 - 36 I Cleary A Woods Suncorp 21,197 15th View
Jun 3rd Round 13 A St George Illawarra L 12 - 16 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 12,983 15th View
Jun 11th Round 14 H Sydney L 18 - 40 I Cleary A Woods Campbelltown 10,066 15th View
Jun 17th Round 15 A Cronulla L 22 - 24 I Cleary E Taylor Southern Cross 11,695 16th View
Jun 23rd Round 16 H Gold Coast Titans L 14 - 26 I Cleary A Woods Campbelltown 6,891 16th View
Jul 16th Round 19 A Manly Warringah L 16 - 28 I Cleary A Woods Lottoland 14,128 15th View
Jul 23rd Round 20 H Parramatta L 16 - 17 I Cleary A Woods ANZ 30,901 15th

Every single painful one of them.. thanks for posting

 

[jirskyr]

Let's stop the blame shifting. What other club other than WTs would out up with the miserable results Maguire has achieved to date? That is part of the culture issue itself!

Parramatta
Raiders
Titans
Warriors
Dragons

Once you start cutting coaches due to lack of results, you sort of can't stop unless the club jags a win here and there.

Coaches survive by their results. All of those clubs bar one have defeated WTs. Had we shown an improvement in our performances demonstrating that we are on an upward trajectory, that would give hope. Sadly it's not the case.

No the question was what other club would put up with the miserable results. Very easy to show a run of very bad results where the above-mentioned clubs didn't cut their coach, and that's without even trawling all the results of all the clubs in the last 10 or so years.