Its not all about the players

[pawsandclaws1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

It’s absolutely the culture which Madge is trying to fix. It’s not stupid, that’s what the actual underlying problem is.

Maguire has had 2.5 years to fix the culture. I'd suggest his tenure has been sufficient.

 

[Lauren]

@mike
Please don't be rude by trying to tell me what I can and can't comprehend. I understand and also personally witnessed all you've mentioned - we all have - but I find it irrelevant to why our players can't get the basics right or seem mentally unprepared in games.
That's a real victim mentality to have.

 

[mike]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

Perhaps up your game to be less condescending and I won’t have to. Even though I disagree with you on pretty much everything I haven’t said things like ‘what you don’t understand’.

 

[mike]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

Perhaps up your game to be less condescending and I won’t have to. Even though I disagree with you on pretty much everything I haven’t said things like ‘what you don’t understand’.

Not going to change so foe is your best option.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

Perhaps up your game to be less condescending and I won’t have to. Even though I disagree with you on pretty much everything I haven’t said things like ‘what you don’t understand’.

Not going to change so foe is your best option.

I’ve never put anyone on foe, and I’m not going to start now. So I’ll just keep calling you out when you’re out of line.

 

[mike]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

Perhaps up your game to be less condescending and I won’t have to. Even though I disagree with you on pretty much everything I haven’t said things like ‘what you don’t understand’.

Not going to change so foe is your best option.

I’ve never put anyone on foe, and I’m not going to start now. So I’ll just keep calling you out when you’re out of line.

I’m not out of line.

 

[avocadoontoast]

Cant seem to respond but surely you can read that I meant its stupid to get into it over someone not sharing your opinion. @mike

What you don’t seem to understand is the reason they won’t play to their strengths is because they don’t have to. That is what has been happening for the past 10 years. They can just go through the motions and get paid.

Why are you so condescending to people that don’t share your view? What Lauren said was perfectly reasonable.

If you don’t like what I say or how I say it then put me on foe and you’ll never see my posts again. I’m just giving my opinion which is counter to what you and others want to hear.

Perhaps up your game to be less condescending and I won’t have to. Even though I disagree with you on pretty much everything I haven’t said things like ‘what you don’t understand’.

Not going to change so foe is your best option.

I’ve never put anyone on foe, and I’m not going to start now. So I’ll just keep calling you out when you’re out of line.

I’m not out of line.

?

 

[Tigerboy]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

 

[Tigerboy]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

It’s absolutely the culture which Madge is trying to fix. It’s not stupid, that’s what the actual underlying problem is.

Maguire has had 2.5 years to fix the culture. I'd suggest his tenure has been sufficient.

I appreciate the fair criticism in this post. Who was the leadership group, tasked with driving this ‘fix’, when he came on board. I think Lacker was there, a broken ET, maybe Matulino and Benji/Mbye.

That is a big part of the answer!

 

[TigerWest]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

It’s absolutely the culture which Madge is trying to fix. It’s not stupid, that’s what the actual underlying problem is.

Maguire has had 2.5 years to fix the culture. I'd suggest his tenure has been sufficient.

How long should it take?
Is there a guide we can use?
This is a 10 year problem.

 

[Tim Sheens]

As much as we love our fellas, we were beaten by a better roster on Friday night and it had little to nothing to do with the coach.

Try 1 and 2 from the Warriors sum it up.

Try 1 (below) - Warriors managed to get us 4 on 3 on our right side. Simple stuff. No coach is telling their team to try and defend 3 on 4. Our guys wouldn't be gassed at the point of the game so it's just bad read. Lauire also hung right off and made it easy for the Warriors winger.


Try 2 - Joseph Leilua targeted, isolated and beaten 1 on 1 by good footwork which leads to the try.

The rest of their tries were similar stories.

Can't agree on your Laurie call there as he is a stride or two behind the ball out in two hands. Basically perfect textbook stuff for a fullback.

 

[tigerballs]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?

It’s absolutely the culture which Madge is trying to fix. It’s not stupid, that’s what the actual underlying problem is.

Maguire has had 2.5 years to fix the culture. I'd suggest his tenure has been sufficient.

How long should it take?
Is there a guide we can use?
This is a 10 year problem.

I hate to do this again, particularly because he's had one or two decent games recently, but Brooks, rather than Madge is the common denominator for poor performance. Many players needed to be moved on and positions upgraded and that can't be done overnight. Reynolds was a $900,000 5/8, you don't just find one of those every month but everyone thought Douhei was a reasonable attempt. A Kangaroo front rower was going to be hard to replace, as was a champion hooker even though we never played finals with those players. I think we've done as best we could in those areas. A quality starting halfback, these days impossible to find is possibly coming next year. Let's see how we go then.
Everyone has seen the difference one player in TT makes to Manly. We're slowly replacing the crap with better and if and when we snag a top quality individual or even get ourselves into a position to use players like AD or DL to optimum effect we'll see a turn around.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

Stop listening to the garbage the club feeds you. Be objective.

I don’t and I am.

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

It’s built into the culture of the West’s Tigers. Play crap, bludge enough and the coach will get the blame. The coach will get sacked and the players are never held responsible and so the cycle continues.

Sack Madge now and I can almost guarantee people will be complaining about the next coach in 2 years time because the players aren’t performing. Why is that? Because they don’t have to, they can just go through the motions because they are not responsible. The coach will be and we will repeat the cycle again for the next 10 years.

The cycle needs to be broken now and Madge is the coach to do it. The culture needs to change to a winning culture, sacking the coach every couple of years creates the exact opposite culture.

I agree, but Madge isn't getting it done. He needs more support to be brought in.

The more the merrier but it needs to be people Madge can work with like Gardiner. Who is available?

Its past worry about what Madge would prefer, it is time to bring in an assistant that can work with modern players and is able to gameplan for the modern game. I would be willing to take on Morris as an assistant.

That’s a sure way to ensure failure.

Mate he is not working and players are rejecting the place because he is coach.

I don’t believe that. A workable solution could be to promote Gardiner as an assistant NRL coach and get someone else for KOEC.

How can you not believe that?

Stop listening to the media

Stop listening to the garbage the club feeds you. Be objective.

I don’t and I am.

Did you downvote me?

Wasn’t me.

 

[Lauren]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
**Our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.**

Of course it does, that’s the underlying problem. The rest are just symptoms of that issue.

 

[Tigerboy]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.

That first line exemplifies your posts perfectly

Why do you continue to bring up the number of coaches we’ve been through when that only makes my argument more valid. You’re literally on your own in saying that culture has nothing to do with performance; as I’ve said this attitude is a major roadblock in terms of moving forward.

At least you’ve stopped ragging Madge - something got through, finally

 

[Lauren]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.


That first line exemplifies your posts perfectly

Why do you continue to bring up the number of coaches we’ve been through when that only makes my argument more valid. You’re literally on your own in saying that culture has nothing to do with performance; as I’ve said this attitude is a major roadblock in terms of moving forward.

At least you’ve stopped ragging Madge - something got through, finally

Mate you departed away from the topic that was being discussed and resorted to insults.
When I initially answered your post and expressed that you were incorrectly quoting me, you turned it into a big song and dance.
My replies have only been outlines of my comments to clear up any confusion because of of this, but you've became totally unreceptive and defensive in response.
Furthermore you challenged me because I didn't acknowledge or remark on your perspective/comments.

So I was genuinely asking if you (and Mike) could tone it down a little because I feel intimidated by and ganged up by the both of you, as you seem more concerned with forcing your opinions on me and my only intent was opening discussions about our playing style.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

And who are the two who aren't his signings? Very large and convenient part of the conversation left out. Remember he only cut the 27th dead wood out this offseason.

85% of the salary cap is made up of players he signed/re-signed. Of the two he didn’t sign, Mbye was a really good player under Cleary, but Madge doesn’t know how to use him or how to coach him. Packer was also effective under Cleary. Madge just can’t coach, that’s the problem.

Of course the bloke can coach, that is a silly statement.
Again players seem to escape there responsibilities to perform with effort, commitment and skill.

He USED to be able to coach. He can’t adapt his style to the modern game or the players under him. He can’t coach anymore.

Maguire can't coach anymore and we have a squad that should be camped in the top eight - both statements as ridiculous as each other.

That’s your opinion, but the bloke is done as a coach. More people are realising this each week.

More "people" like frustrated fans. Every fan of every club travelling poorly thinks the coach can't coach. Six weeks ago Des Hasler was washed up as well - but then he got his superstar player back and happy days at Manly again. No doubt the knives are out for Ricky Stuart atm too. Maguire will only last so long we all know that but let's not pretend the squad is any more than it is.

Yeah but Madge has been here almost 2.5 years. The longer he’s here the worse it gets. I can’t imagine how bad we’ll be by the end of the year. Get rid of him now, bring in Flanagan or Morris and you’d see immediate improvement.

You want Flanagan to dope them up for the win. OK

You want to stick with Madge and lose forever?

I want to stick with Madge and fix the culture and our soft underbelly where players can just bludge and leave it to someone else. This has been going on long before Madge arrived. It needs to be fixed and Madge is exactly the hard nosed coach we need to do it.

This is the concern I share with others, nothing really looks fixed though and there's still no distinct playing style. Or consistency in the team's effort and attitude. Every few games we'll see some signs of intent and motivation but our gameplan - or how we perform - often looks too lackluster to challenge the better teams.
It can't be because we're newly formed either as Bulldogs and Warriors have made many recruitment changes to their roster yet are playing more cohesively by now.
Every other team have shown some capability of applying tactics suited to the attacking style of play desired in today's game, even we have once or twice. But most have also consequently adapted a plan to counterattack or restrain the opposition. We come across as clueless and stuck at times.

We don't appear too dissimilar to Raiders who are talented enough but seem reluctant or lost in improvising. I believe there's some x factor in the team but it's like we don't know how to use it effectively. Laurie and Doueihi are great competitors with some vision, Stefano and Mikaele are a real handful and Brooks and Liddle are made for the game. However there's little evidence we have pieced together a suitable gameplan, to make it work. We've shifted players all year long and the further it goes the more uncoordinated or clumsy we look as a team. So its like are we actually moving away from what our best team looks like or do we even know who they are at this point?

*Also just to clarify but my interpretation of fixed is using the Cowboys in comparison. Payten has seemingly devised strategies which allow Cowboys to defend collaboratively and brought out all their attacking strengths.

Lol and another post subtly attacks the coach

Scramble sucks aside the few you’ve said and we’ve got no pace... sure, the cowboys are doing great struggling against knights ! I’d suggest you go and rewatch the game to see that our plan in attack was definitely evident and struggled as the game went on with opposition more easily repelling us.

The above becomes a massive concern for our team who’ve always liked to throw in the towel and show a distinct lack of desire (individually) to get back into grinding games and stay in touch.

When we fatigue in attack and the middle eventually starts to collapse - as it should... the edges become so flimsy it wouldn’t have mattered if we scored twice on both sin bins and then took a penalty for good measure. We were always going to cough it up on the back of this and is a terrible look and standard for the younger guys to get used to, Nof racing up and in after SO many years and Talau now clearly doing his best impressions of Joey and Mbye’s time here, most weeks.

It’s a failure right across the board actually and in no way/shape or form to do with a game plan - not on Friday night and rarely ever against the Warriors. A disgraceful performance, Lauren.

I actually don't wish to see another coach be moved on, but he is accountable for fixing the team's performance issues and there's nothing concrete to suggest he's rectifying them at all - we've only shown we usually move away from what's working for us with making unnecessary team changes. Aside from some individual players showing some improvements it isn't translating at a collective level.
We haven't exactly been setting the bar too high but if someone is failing to live up to or work on the poor or inconsistent standards they've shown throughout the year, this now possibly becomes more a team selection or coaching problem.

Turning it into a historical argument (Madge's winning strike rate or the club's poor patterns of behaviors) does little to address the team's current shortcomings. The board or Hartigan aren't responsible for overturning this.


So you purport to knowing what his KPI’s are/whether he’s succeeding or failing... I’d say from the straw man position you’re taking like most that you would like more insight and to see the results turning around on field. Like all of us.

Posts like your first demonstrably set us back when people accept or state that it has to do with coaching records or game plans when we lack the x-factor as well as the insidious culture problems stemming right from the top.

Not something you contemplate if it comes down to one performance (or many) which shows the same weaknesses. Good and well for you to say we should stick with him now after your posts state almost the opposite and that he isn’t having success.

These aren’t theories but rather facts, need more stars. Which coach btw, do you think would turn around the obvious attitude problem ? How does he plan to force Nof to hold his wing - even when outnumbered

Better yet - you don’t think our coach has already tried. It’s these individual people that are further promoting ingrained ideas. Lee H, for example is the reason for his absurd new contract freshly inked. Not coach... how do you blame him for an issue present throughout a blokes whole league career ?

So, who do we replace him with because I’m not offering up any excuses for the performance yet can’t see how BJ’s career self-imploding is on Madge; or anyone else. It’s a very one-sided view to take and is not a fair defence of the one I took issue with. Unsure of where you or myself, in these comments, is using his record as justification for/against him staying but we need the stability.

Hope for our sakes we continue making smarter recruitment choices! It’s not about the coach

No I'm specifically talking about Madge having the team capable of playing to their strengths. My original post was clear enough to suggest this and said nothing about sacking him.
So please stop deflecting.
If we're not winning because we constantly have someone in the team who shouldn't be there - killing all our chances, that is ineffective with team selections.
Or if we are unable to play a distinctive style suited to the game, that is also symptomatic of ineffective game planning.
So instead of getting all wound up and turning it into some long winded argument because you disagree, please don't as it's stupid.
You know very well what I've said. Who else is responsible for the two issues I've pointed out if not Madge?


Wait, so your whole entire third response was a deflection onto me ? Claiming I’m essentially too passionate and upset right now to reason logically... you didn’t even suggest one player that we could and *should* bring in to replace Nof

Neither did you respond to a single valid point, RE: Madge. You then went onto say somebody else has a victim mentality for agreeing with the reason goal of progress.

Keep getting riled up over our coach and further the ‘success’ divide.

I was really hoping you’d at least acknowledge my point-of-view, or @mike instead of reverting back to garbage childlike defensive posts.

Please stop with the aggression.
Because people don't wish to engage in conversation that sidetracks it doesn't warrant responses that only further irritate the situation. So there's no need to get all combative.
Perhaps get a dictionary also.
I've only ever made a point about our poor performances due to the lack of strategy and tactic and hinted how the team selections show a certain hypocrisy to the whole accountability argument. Madge is the only person in control of this and whether you agree with my opinion or not, it's irrefutable.
With all due respect, but you need to get a grip on your behaviour.

I'll state this so there's no confusion but the reason I don't care for historical culture problems or any surrounding topics is:
When a player drops balls, rushes in on defence or doesn't have the vision to execute a play which gives the team an advantage; I find the number of coaches we've gone through totally unrelated to this.
So call me what you like but it makes no difference to the fact that our culture problems over the past decade has nothing to do with how the team turns up or competes on game day.


That first line exemplifies your posts perfectly

Why do you continue to bring up the number of coaches we’ve been through when that only makes my argument more valid. You’re literally on your own in saying that culture has nothing to do with performance; as I’ve said this attitude is a major roadblock in terms of moving forward.

At least you’ve stopped ragging Madge - something got through, finally

Mate you departed away from the topic that was being discussed and resorted to insults.
When I initially answered your post and expressed that you were incorrectly quoting me, you turned it into a big song and dance.
My replies have only been outlines of my comments to clear up any confusion because of of this, but you've became totally unreceptive and defensive in response.
Furthermore you challenged me because I didn't acknowledge or remark on your perspective/comments.

So I was genuinely asking if you (and Mike) could tone it down a little because I feel intimidated by and ganged up by the both of you, as you seem more concerned with forcing your opinions on me and my only intent was opening discussions about our playing style.

I’m not ‘forcing’ my opinion on anyone. I can’t do that nor would I want to. It’s my opinion and I’ll state it as strongly as I like, you can take it or leave it, that’s entirely up you.

The current playing style, or lack of it if you like, IMO is a symptom of a bigger underlying issue that I have previously outlined.

 

[Merlot]

we all need 2 suit up in amour,n take a cup of concrete ,passions run deep