Its not all about the players

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

Mate, he isn't a good coach. What is the game plan he is trying to implement? Worst than that though is the fact players don't want to play under him.

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

Agreed, what players have actually improve since he has been here?

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

Not one player has improved under his guidance.

 

[hobbo1]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

So how come the Storms are pumping Canberra with a team of nobody’s .?

 

[happy_tiger]

Who are all these players Madge supposedly been talking too. ?

I believe they are rugby league players ...but you can never tell with the WT's

 

[gallagher]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

Not one player has improved under his guidance.

The water boy is less of a greedy guts.

 

[mike]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

Not one player has improved under his guidance.

Disagree. Douhie has, Mikaele has and dare say even Garner has. Just a few off the top of my head.

 

[Snake]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If Bellamy was coaching this team the Tigers would be entrenched in the top 8 ..please 85%of this team are good
players ..The team needs to be coached you see defence can be coached .
Maguire is done just being protected from the embarrassment to others !

 

[TYGA]

Same delusional people always banging on about the coach. Give it a rest what part of bottom 4 roster don’t people comprehend.

 

[Snake]

Same delusional people always banging on about the coach. Give it a rest what part of bottom 4 roster don’t people comprehend.

That's rubbish

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

Agreed, what players have actually improve since he has been here?

I can’t think of one

 

[gallagher]

Same delusional people always banging on about the coach. Give it a rest what part of bottom 4 roster don’t people comprehend.

So who's responsible for that?

 

[cochise]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

Not one player has improved under his guidance.

Disagree. Douhie has, Mikaele has and dare say even Garner has. Just a few off the top of my head.

So 3 have? Out what 40?

 

[hobbo1]

Same delusional people always banging on about the coach. Give it a rest what part of bottom 4 roster don’t people comprehend.

So who's responsible for that?

There known as the untouchables

 

[avocadoontoast]

It is all about the players

In 2.5 years the playing group has changed significantly, yet they’re playing the same. The only constant is the coach and management. They need to go.

No mate it’s the players. They are the ones who drop balls, throw forward passes, miss tackles. We just don’t have the cattle at the moment to compete. That is slowly changing. You only need to look to the lower grades to know.

I disagree Mike. We’ve chopped and changed players a lot since Madge has arrived but unfortunately it’s made no difference. His coaching methods are antiquated and simply don’t work for the modern game. Our team is an embarrassment and he’s a large reason for it. He’s had 2.5 years, he’s failed, time to try something different. It doesn’t matter who we sign, with him at the helm we’ll never move forward.

Our lower grades success, in my opinion, is all Hartigan.

Well we disagree. Until we have actual NRL grade players results won’t change. Gladly that is happening, just not as quickly as everyone would like.

Our team now is much better than teams in previous years, but he can’t coach. Cleary got a team that was half as talented to play to their abilities, because he’s a good coach. We will never play finals with Madge as coach.

It’s a bottom 4 NRL squad. That’s the issue.

We finished higher previously with lesser squads. The problem is, he can’t coach. You bring Flanagan or another credentialed coach with an understanding of the modern game and we improve overnight.

It wouldn’t matter who the coach was, it’s a dud squad. Even Bellamy wouldn’t do any better, he be moving players on just like we are slowly.

If that’s the case, why did he sign them? 28/30 are his signings or re-signings.

You could put the Australian team under him and they’d struggle. His style is no longer relevant to the modern game.

Wasn’t much on offer at the time. Things are changing slowly. Anyway we are not going to agree.

It doesn’t matter, he isn’t getting anything out of the current players. He can’t coach.

So the players aren’t being professional then. Move them on.

Not one player has improved under his guidance.

Disagree. Douhie has, Mikaele has and dare say even Garner has. Just a few off the top of my head.

How about everyone else?

 

[avocadoontoast]

Same delusional people always banging on about the coach. Give it a rest what part of bottom 4 roster don’t people comprehend.

I don’t think it is a bottom 4 roster.