Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan
Well-known member
Well it's no wonder they have no clue about running an NRL club. You can't increase the success of a football club by adding a pokie machine to the training facility. It must be their only move.
It's time to take the fight back to HBG
- Thread starter balmain boy
- Start date
They’re only interested in the easy money from having that many machines… not on improving the football team until it’s called the Magpies.
hammertime
Well-known member
Far out, why does this always devolve into a magpies thing? There's no need guys. While I understand the bias on the board, which is a problem in itself purely on time wastage, it cheapens any message about needing skilled, connected and experienced operators at the helm.
It's incredibly dumb to devolve this into a magpies vs balmain thing. It will get us nowhere.
It's incredibly dumb to devolve this into a magpies vs balmain thing. It will get us nowhere.
Chunk
Well-known member
It won't work AI says amongst other things
Ultimately, asking Macarthur Leagues to give more to the Wests Tigers is a legal and ethical impossibility. Every extra dollar given to the professional NRL team would mean stripping a dollar away from a Campbelltown charity, a local junior footy player, or essential community support services
And AI says that WA owns Macarthur Leagues anyway.
So the 'fight' basically means we need to be able to access more funds from HBG. How do you make this happen?
hammertime
Well-known member
The only way we can truly make it happen in a sustainable way, if they aren't willing to do it themselves, is to make the directors accountable. If they actually feared losing their position, they'd stack the board with people more capable than themselves and fund the bejezzus out of us. Otherwise theyd be removed.
The problem is. We can't do that. L&G probably could if they developed a backbone and crafted some legislation around these protectionist structures, but that's not going to happen either.
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Chunk
Well-known member
Yes definately, however, for some reason its not in their 'charter' they have no 'legal' obligation. Why though? Is this the debenture system or is it more?
AI says
But other Leagues club contibute more to their football clubs.
The reason powerhouse clubs like the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs receive more leagues club funding than the Wests Tigers comes down to differing board control structures, severe geographical division of profits, and the unique financial burdens of a merged joint venture.
While the Canterbury League Club routinely pours millions into the Bulldogs NRL team, the Holman Barnes Group (HBG) operates under a completely different corporate reality:
1. Board Control: Direct Ties vs. Separation. The most critical difference between the two setups is who controls the purse strings:The Bulldogs Model: The Canterbury-Bankstown Football Club holds a guaranteed structural majority on the Canterbury League Club board (appointing four out of seven directors). Because the football side legally controls the commercial leagues club, they can easily vote to approve massive, multi-million-dollar annual grants straight to their NRL football program.
The Wests Tigers Model: The Wests Tigers football management has zero control over HBG's corporate board. HBG operates completely independently as a licensed hospitality group. Their primary corporate priority is running profitable hospitality venues, treating the Wests Tigers as an investment portfolio piece rather than their singular purpose. (We're screwed 😉)
Even though they have the debenture system, it seems they still would have different priorities compared to the Bulldogs?
So even if it was the Wests Magpies, just for example, they still wouldn't recieve the funding like the Bulldogs?
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hammertime
Well-known member
Yeah, thats a fair pickup. I actually didn't know that. But with HBG as a controlling interest on both, they can still make the same call. I don't think all clubs are setup like the dogs.
No...even the Magpies (Lidcombe era) when I was a kid were severely underfunded by WA.
The leagues club treated the football club as an afterthought.
I wish my dad was still with us id love to talk to him more about it and learn more...all the Ashie locals treated the club with disdain despite being Magpies fans
Surprised to hear the Dogs FC control the leagues club
Chunk
Well-known member
I found this through AI, but I think it would be very close to the truth. Their Leagues Club, being dependent on the football club makes sense.
That’s the reason why the league club exists, because of the football club
Can you imagine the Canterbury Leagues Club forking over money to a failing soccer team, especially when the footy club was struggling, it’d be very surprising but good old HBG does exactly that, clowns!
What’s the CEO have to say about this? These questions need to be answered?
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Leck
Well-known member
Chunk, the reality is that RSL and leagues clubs are struggling in metropolitan areas.
The other issue is that many board members aren't particularly smart or creative when it comes to building, let alone sustaining a club.
We're an example of this.
king_sirro
Well-known member
What a really sad state we are in after 26 years. I am completely beaten down by this club. To think that such a small minority who cant let go of the past continue to cause fractions among the club and supporter base is just so sad. The majority of old Magpie and Balmain supporters embraced the Wests Tigers in such an incredible way. I was at our first trial game where Leichhardt was packed and buzzing with the anticipation of 2 supporter groups who suffered many years of failure, pumped at the thought of success. The support for the Wests Tigers since has only grown. We are a powerful supporter group, stronger than most of, if not all other clubs. Yet we have allowed a pathetic small minority ruin us. Even some crap from the supporters drives me mad. Some will group all former Magpies together as holding onto the past, which simply isn't even close to being true. Same with Balmain, some old Pies supporters will group all ex Balmain supporters together as wanting whats best for Balmain over Wests Tigers. Most of it is all in their heads. I would guess that we are well into the 90% bracket of all supporters just wanting the best for Wests Tigers, yet here we sit. Just this week a poster claimed a Balmain rhetoric of Balmian equal excellence, Balmain are holier than thou....I mean that is completely made up in the posters head. No one thinks Balmain were good, no one. Thats just one example of how we ourselves are feeding the idiots in power, the small minority that want division, want power for their "old" club. Its beyond belief how pathetic and sad it all is. Im at the point i would be relieved if the Magpies took over. Ive always been a closet Bears supporters and I live on the border of the Balmain district and Norths district. I know i could never support another team while Wests Tigers are playing, it just cant happen, but if we folded I could take an interest in a struggling Bears team. Thats how bad this is. I want my club to fold. Private ownership or bust IMO
wonka
Well-known member
They now own Mariners womens FC and half owners of Apia FC no wonder they have no money for WT
TheEnz
Well-known member
I am totally against the way the HBG debenture system is set up and the impact it has on the quality of board members both on the HBG board and the Wests Tigers board and yes it probably has a knock on effect related to performance.....however having said that, we fielded a team that should have easily beaten Parramatta, should have easily beaten the Dragons and should have easily beaten the Knights all three of those opponents had relatively bad games and were still able to beat us...or I should say we beat ourselves...to me using HBG as an excuse for what the team has dished up over the last 5 weeks is a cop out.
GNR4LIFE
Well-known member
Serious question. What money do we require?
Oscar Martinez
Well-known member
I took a trip over to the forum of the most unsuccessful club in the history of sport, the Gold Coast Titans.
The privately owned Gold Coast Titans.
Funny enough there's no mention anywhere of the owners.
Private ownership isn't the panacea the hand wringers on here seem to think it is.
The privately owned Gold Coast Titans.
Funny enough there's no mention anywhere of the owners.
Private ownership isn't the panacea the hand wringers on here seem to think it is.
Thats a bit of cherry picking there.
If we had better coaching assistants wed be better overall the whole season
The attack would.be better...the defense likewise...
Injuries and walkouts are their own issues....but being underfunded imo with out assistants has held us back and thats on HB
Sinead O'Connor sang a song about this. "What's in your head?" "Zombie"
TheEnz
Well-known member
Every round I look at our team and who we play against...player for player and think to myself who would I swap. I can tell you against Parra and the Dragons there are not too many I would take from our opposition, Knights are maybe close to even. So for me our guys are showing a lack of heart and resilience. I am totally against our owners and you will see that in all my commentary, however I feel that this year they seem to be providing the team with what they need from a funding perspective and since blowing things up late last year have been pretty quiet. We played with great passion in the first 10 weeks however the polish was lacking yet we still won games on aggressive defense and backing each other up in attack, since then the passion is gone and the lack of polish is exposed. Thats not just a HBG thing and whilst I agree the HBG thing needs to fixed, however that will take time and is out of the control of the club and coaching team, yet the player passion and resilience and lack of polish issue is one that the club and coaching team can influence and should be held accountable for.
Chunk
Well-known member
Yes for sure. The extra 6-7 million the Dogs get can go a very long way.
It seems we are some way behind!
Key Structural Differences with Bulldogs and Wests Tigers
1. Football Operations & Hierarchy
- The Bulldogs operate with a heavy administrative buffer between the board and the locker room. Football mastermind Phil Gould directs long-term strategy, complemented by Chief of Staff Adam Hartigan managing day-to-day operations. This shields Head Coach Cameron Ciraldo so he can focus purely on defensive systems and tactical execution. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- The Wests Tigers utilize a more streamlined system. Shaun Mielekamp handles executive tasks, leaving Benji Marshall with absolute authority over the entire football program, including culture shifts and extensive roster rebuilds. [1, 2]
2. Coaching Support Network
- The Bulldogs have heavily invested in specialized consulting roles within their coaching staff. For example, their setup includes dedicated tackle-technique consultants (Alex Prates) and individual athletic development specialists (Rubin Ruzicka). [1]
- The Wests Tigers lean on a traditional, deeply loyal group of assistant coaches, utilizing former club veterans like Chris Heighington and tactical minds like John Morris to manage game-day strategies and field setups. [1]
3. Analytical & High-Performance Approaches
- The Bulldogs frame their analytics department strictly around technical IT metrics and digital performance logging, spearheaded by Mohamed Ali. [1]
- The Wests Tigers feature a highly visible analytical group that directly influences live game play. Lead analyst Kassidy Grant sits alongside Marshall in the box, interpreting real-time wearable telemetry, while former player Simon Dwyer acts as a hybrid video analyst and coaching consultant.
4. Junior Pathways Pipeline
- The Bulldogs run a unified Academy system managed internally by Craig Wilson and coached by club legends like Mick Potter and Josh Jackson. [1]
- The Wests Tigers navigate a dual-pathway system owing to their joint-venture heritage. They share support staff across distinct regions, utilizing separate coaches for the Wests Magpies (e.g., Nathan Lakeman) and the Balmain Tigers (e.g., Andrew Kazzi). [1, 2]
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