Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

[goldcoast_tiger]

:unamused:

It's extrovert, not extravert. And the expression is: "strike while the iron is hot" not, "strike while the lion is hot." It refers to blacksmithing and uses that as an allusion to the need to be decisive and back your decisions. Every forum is the right forum to call out lazy , incoherent, unpunctuated, misspelt gibberish. It's called good communication, in English. Dude.

:unamused:

 

[Telltails]

If Ivan visited the Panthers to hear out there offer , it takes the gloss of him but he has said he wants to coach his son , if Ivan come back and met with Jutin and told him about the offer , I'm ok with that as its honest , But if he asked for a release that changes everything
2.5 years to go on a contract put simply if Penrith want him bad enough and he wants out no problem

$ 5000,000 Dollars compensation to Tigers From Penrith and off he goes OR

We say no , and move Hodgo to head coach and let CLEARY run reserve grade for 2.5 years , that way Penrith will need a coach to come in for 2.5 years knowing he is dead in the water after 2020

Option 3 , and I'm hearing this today , Nathan has told Ivan he wants to stay at Penrith and Ivan approached Penrith , Hence 2 meetings at the Tigers , first one to ask for a release , second meeting where he got told no release , This will play out for a couple of weeks and then Ivan will be released

I can understand why Nathan would want to stay at Penrith:

1) better squad than WT's
2) better facilities than WT
3) Plays with his mates
4) better chance of retaining his SOO jumper…

But hey, both Cleary's should be professional about this, they are not in an U9's competition. They should not be so selfish with their personal desires to the detriment of their careers....Nathan if you want to be coached by your old man....follow him...not the other way around.

Lets be fair. We were fine with what they wanted when it suited us. We even wanted to see Nathan break his contract to come here next year. We were cool with that. Suddenly its turning against us and they are slimeballs.

I dont think either are slimeballs. I just think it puts into perspective what is more important to them - and it appears that is being together, and furthering Nathan's career which they seem to think can be best served at Penrith.
Unfortunately for Ivan he signed a contract with us, and we have to now do whats best for us, and that may involve firm retaliation in response to the actions by Penrith to destabilize our club.
How that effects Ivan and his position at the club now remains to be seen - but I cant see how it can work IF in fact he wants to pursue an opportunity at the Panthers.

 

[Devon Head]

Just remember that for once tigers have ALL the leverage. Only incompetence from Pascoe and go could see tigers lose out here. So relax. Anyone who is offered a job would look at it. Doesn’t mean they take it. Ivan is a good man who is highly respected. And he likes that people think that of him.

SG, right or wrong I'm just disappointed at the speed with which members of this forum turned on the WT coach, all of which was based on assumption and fed by rumour. Sad really

Maybe if Ivan wasn't sitting quiet and came out openly denied he has plans to leave then the fans wouldn't be so willing to crucify him.

 

[Harvey]

There would be no point in taking money as compensation, you need benefits the fans can see.

A couple of players from Penrith, with their salaries being subsided by the panthers to the value of 800k per year for the length of Ivan’s contract with the tigers

 

[Tiger_Steve]

Interesting tweet from Gould earlier after someone said that he should apologize to the Tigers members…which Gus 'liked'

https://twitter.com/PhilGould15/status/1026784314631933952

Its an interesting tweet alright.

Could mean a number of things though. My first thought is that he is saying Cleary went to them.

This!

Ivan wants desperately to coach Nathan
Nathan says he’s not leaving Penrith
Ivan goes to plan B

 

[GNR4LIFE]

There would be no point in taking money as compensation, you need benefits the fans can see.

A couple of players from Penrith, with their salaries being subsided by the panthers to the value of 800k per year for the length of Ivan’s contract with the tigers

I agree money would not satisfy the supporters, unless the club uses it pay a new coach. If it meant we could offer Seibold or Bennett a 1.5 a season, then that is something.

If he leaves, it will hurt PR wise, but i don't see it as that big of a setback, because we'll have the cash for a quaity coach. There are plenty out there

 

[happy_tiger]

If the situation is true and smoking gun is saying at it is Wests Tigers have NO leverage.

Ivan wants to leave to coach Penrith, we beat our chests say no it is not happening he’s under contract.

If we don’t let him go we have a coach who doesn’t want to be here. So in affect the leader of the football doesn’t want to be at the club which is filter down through all levels like a poison. Penrith will offer the club some half arsed tokenistic deal knowing they are the ones with power and we are screwed.

The only hope we have is that Ivan is a man of his word and is having one over Penrith to lure Nathan here. But let’s be honest from what we know of each clubs facilities, player potential and money Penrith is a stronger club.

The leverage tigers have is he can’t coach another first grade NRL team til 2021\. The leverage is Penrith are hell bent on keeping Nathan they are trying to lure his dad there now. If Penrith don’t want to wait they will ha r to give up assets. That’s business

Well SG I have my list for Gus

You keep IC and NC

We will have

Tamou
RCG
Maloney
Mansour
Kikau

and 1.2 million in compensation

Sorry what was that Gus ??

Sorry Gus , I can't understand you …....oh sorry your gagging on it

My apologies

Yeah right and the NRL would say oh yeah that fine, contracts registered. :brick:
Even allowing for your exaggeration and we were looking at only 2 Penrith players paid under pnriths cap as SG suggests… Do we really thing THE NRL would allow this can of worms to become a precedent and usual practise?
It's effectively Penrith with 28 man squad paying for 30 and WTs with 32 man squad paying for 30... it would not happen

Yeah 5 players are an exaggeration Ink

2-3 Straight player swaps plus a cash incentive isn't beyond the realms

Look of good coaches out there at the moment , we get our back row issues sorted

They want the coach ….......................

 

[The_Patriot]

The leverage tigers have is he can’t coach another first grade NRL team til 2021\. The leverage is Penrith are hell bent on keeping Nathan they are trying to lure his dad there now. If Penrith don’t want to wait they will ha r to give up assets. That’s business

Well SG I have my list for Gus

You keep IC and NC

We will have

Tamou
RCG
Maloney
Mansour
Kikau

and 1.2 million in compensation

Sorry what was that Gus ??

Sorry Gus , I can't understand you …....oh sorry your gagging on it

My apologies

Yeah right and the NRL would say oh yeah that fine, contracts registered. :brick:
Even allowing for your exaggeration and we were looking at only 2 Penrith players paid under pnriths cap as SG suggests… Do we really thing THE NRL would allow this can of worms to become a precedent and usual practise?
It's effectively Penrith with 28 man squad paying for 30 and WTs with 32 man squad paying for 30... it would not happen

Yeah 5 players are an exaggeration Ink

2-3 Straight player swaps plus a cash incentive isn't beyond the realms

Look of good coaches out there at the moment , we get our back row issues sorted

They want the coach ….......................

I'm against a player trade. Any player sent here against their will will be out of his contract in a year. Players get out of a contract very easily. Then you have a player who would wants to come no doubt they guy isn't good enough to crack their starting team.

No Deal!

Give Penrith nothing.

 

[Wa_Mag_Tig]

If all this talk is true and Gus has got Ivan, then he has Nathan as well, so why doesn't Gus come out and announce Nathans has signed on for 5 years. I don't believe any of it and i think it's Ivan turning one on Gus, the man that sacked him.

 

[Oggyz]

Interesting tweet from Gould earlier after someone said that he should apologize to the Tigers members…which Gus 'liked'

https://twitter.com/PhilGould15/status/1026784314631933952

Its an interesting tweet alright.

Could mean a number of things though. My first thought is that he is saying Cleary went to them.

David ONeill chairman of Penrith - Ivan's very good mate- reportedly got the ball rolling with this whole scenario.
Gus may not have been the catalyst in this move however he is shouldering the blame

I think that’s going to be Gould’s position, I didnt meet with Cleary, it was ONeill. Thus, he can hold all this at arms length and (in his mind) come out smelling like roses.
But, with the role and influence Gould has at Penrith, plus with the personality type he seems to be, this didn’t happen without the big fat GOULD stamp of approval.

 

[happy_tiger]

Interesting tweet from Gould earlier after someone said that he should apologize to the Tigers members…which Gus 'liked'

https://twitter.com/PhilGould15/status/1026784314631933952

Its an interesting tweet alright.

Could mean a number of things though. My first thought is that he is saying Cleary went to them.

David ONeill chairman of Penrith - Ivan's very good mate- reportedly got the ball rolling with this whole scenario.
Gus may not have been the catalyst in this move however he is shouldering the blame

I think that’s going to be Gould’s position, I didnt meet with Cleary, it was ONeill. Thus, he can hold all this at arms length and (in his mind) come out smelling like roses.
But, with the role and influence Gould has at Penrith, plus with the personality type he seems to be, this didn’t happen without the big fat GOULD stamp of approval.

The other point is what Ivan said recently about not wanting to coach Nathan while he was unestablished

He said on NRL 360 week before last he didn't want to be accused of nepotism and picking Nathan before he was a standout selection

When you then look at when Ivan was "sacked and then when NC started at Penrith , could this have all be planned …..

I doubt we will ever know the truth

 

[innsaneink]

The leverage tigers have is he can’t coach another first grade NRL team til 2021\. The leverage is Penrith are hell bent on keeping Nathan they are trying to lure his dad there now. If Penrith don’t want to wait they will ha r to give up assets. That’s business

Well SG I have my list for Gus

You keep IC and NC

We will have

Tamou
RCG
Maloney
Mansour
Kikau

and 1.2 million in compensation

Sorry what was that Gus ??

Sorry Gus , I can't understand you …....oh sorry your gagging on it

My apologies

Yeah right and the NRL would say oh yeah that fine, contracts registered. :brick:
Even allowing for your exaggeration and we were looking at only 2 Penrith players paid under pnriths cap as SG suggests… Do we really thing THE NRL would allow this can of worms to become a precedent and usual practise?
It's effectively Penrith with 28 man squad paying for 30 and WTs with 32 man squad paying for 30... it would not happen

That’s the power wests tigers have in this scenario. And they should use it. Like I said just because it hasn’t been done doesn’t mean in can’t be done. Cleary is an asset. Tigers can use him how they want if he wants out. Tigers have invested a lot in Ivan. A lot. So to think they would just let him walk out for a couple hundred thousand is ridiculous. And I’d hope that’s pascoes mentality as well. He doesn’t seem to be the kind of bloke who would do Penrith any favours. I’d expect cash and 2 players if they want Cleary like reported would be the minimum.

I agree we have hand…. We have hand Jerry... Hand.

Who do they have that we want?
Backrow and centre seems to be our weakness... We can't do coach for player but we can do player for player heavily in our favour and best interest if in fact Cleary asks for and s granted a release.

I like some others aren't too bothered if Cleary goes provided we can replace him with an NRL quality coach.... It would however be a shame to see all the work he's put in cut short... We have been slowly improving under Ivan after all

 

[teddy23]

Now I know there’s a strong chance you won’t be able to read this but I’m sure people whom are close to you and the club will…. this message is only directed at you pending if the media reports of you wanting out are true!

This is all just on my chest and I’m sure if the NRL 360 reports are true.... I speak for all Wests Tigers fans!

Where do I start..... us Wests Tigers fans have been on a long excruciating ride since 2011 - scandal after scandal had occurred and fans were starting to drop faster than flies along with the passion us tiger fans had for the game that arguably at stages could be stronger than any fan base!

Problems with management, players and facilities were surfaced all over media outlets - fans had enough - memebers on this forum started to disappear such as myself - membership rates dropped and so did our love for the game we once knew as rugby league.....

But then something happened in 2017 that gave us all hope.... a coach whom had been sacked for being to tired from a club who was having recent success - a coach who was eager for a job but not given one for 2 years by any club - when JT was sacked fans urged for Ivan Cleary to be the man, we had faith that this could be the guy to change things around for this club!

When you came aboard to a club with a broken fan base you told us all this is a new era and urged us to get on the bus - a bus you promised you would lead for a new profound direction that this club hasn’t pathed along for quite some while!

Your first day on the job it was clear that us fans believed you were the man - “Ivan the messiah” - “In Ivan we trust” - “”get on the bus” just to name a few!

Similar incident happened this time last year with a player wanting to leave mid season whom was under contract for a few more months - ironically you came out and questioned his integrity for not honouring his contract even though the club didn’t want him - these comments are ones that made us fans believe the man who was leading this club was a man with character and old school loyaltity..... guess we were wrong

I guess this whole “get on the bus” thing wasn’t you genuinely wanting us to succeed more just a marketing chip to get us fans to falsely believe you were in it for the long run and believed you could bring this club success - but no it was just dodgy strategy to sell memberships and to be used as your core advertising method when selling merchandise and tickets - along with to being able to entice players to pick up there bags and move locations just so they had the opportunity to play with you.... little did they know the coach they thought that was full of integrity was just an imposter

The West’s Tigers has invested so much into you - Given you everything you’ve wanted like full control of recruitment - You were told to write any number for your son and that the board would tick it off!

Russell Packer had the opportunity to win a premiership with the Dragons - what does he do? He moves to the tigers so he can play under Ivan and take this club to a preimership together!

Ben Matulino had a young family.... lived in NZ and had it all sorted out! You came knocking trying to sell him this picture of you leading the tigers to success in the long run..... he picked up his bags and moved to Australia due to the respect and trust he had in you!

A vision both Mbye and Reynolds were sold as well!

Decisions were being made us tiger fans weren’t too fond of but we didn’t care we had 110% trust in you and so did the board.... something you can kiss behind from not only this club but the whole league - players being signed on big deals - the players being chosen - but still this forum raged with “in Ivan with trust” posts!

Not only us fans but players committed to this mantra you set out throughout the league - but to pick it and go crawling back to the team who had sacked you telling the whole rugby league world you were “too tired to be a coach” just so you can play with a decent roster is such a significant dent in your creditability - I’ll tell you one thing you won’t be just losing the job but you’ll be losing the respect from the NRL as a whole that I can guarantee - go chase the money but just remember your legacy and built charisma of wanting to build clubs and being a people friendly coach has just gone down the drain and turned into the coaching version of SBW back in the day - we were mistaken of you character and now we can all see how you really are you sold your soul Mr Cleary and now the whole world can see it!

Be free to leave any messages you have for Ivan below hoping people within the club can read this!

 

[momo_amp_medo]

The poor players.

Yep if it’s “done deal” with Cleary leaving then all (WT compensation, Cleary contract and announcements) should be sorted before our next game.
Can’t see that our team runs out with this hanging over them.

 

[innsaneink]

The leverage tigers have is he can’t coach another first grade NRL team til 2021\. The leverage is Penrith are hell bent on keeping Nathan they are trying to lure his dad there now. If Penrith don’t want to wait they will ha r to give up assets. That’s business

Well SG I have my list for Gus

You keep IC and NC

We will have

Tamou
RCG
Maloney
Mansour
Kikau

and 1.2 million in compensation

Sorry what was that Gus ??

Sorry Gus , I can't understand you …....oh sorry your gagging on it

My apologies

Yeah right and the NRL would say oh yeah that fine, contracts registered. :brick:
Even allowing for your exaggeration and we were looking at only 2 Penrith players paid under pnriths cap as SG suggests… Do we really thing THE NRL would allow this can of worms to become a precedent and usual practise?
It's effectively Penrith with 28 man squad paying for 30 and WTs with 32 man squad paying for 30... it would not happen

Yeah 5 players are an exaggeration Ink

2-3 Straight player swaps plus a cash incentive isn't beyond the realms

Look of good coaches out there at the moment , we get our back row issues sorted

They want the coach ….......................

Yep… I agree

If however he stays it makes me wonder if possible future recruits will be skeptical how long he's here for.... It's hard enough for us to attract talent as you know... This wouldn't help

 

[Tiger_Steve]

The biggest problem with him leaving is the players have bought into his message. They feel part of something special. Seems it was all smoke and mirrors now but it will be hard for a new coach to pick that up. Reynolds alluded to that on 360 saying the playing group would be greatly affected in Cleary bailed. Treachery is the word that comes to mind

 

[happy_tiger]

Well SG I have my list for Gus

You keep IC and NC

We will have

Tamou
RCG
Maloney
Mansour
Kikau

and 1.2 million in compensation

Sorry what was that Gus ??

Sorry Gus , I can't understand you …....oh sorry your gagging on it

My apologies

Yeah right and the NRL would say oh yeah that fine, contracts registered. :brick:
Even allowing for your exaggeration and we were looking at only 2 Penrith players paid under pnriths cap as SG suggests… Do we really thing THE NRL would allow this can of worms to become a precedent and usual practise?
It's effectively Penrith with 28 man squad paying for 30 and WTs with 32 man squad paying for 30... it would not happen

That’s the power wests tigers have in this scenario. And they should use it. Like I said just because it hasn’t been done doesn’t mean in can’t be done. Cleary is an asset. Tigers can use him how they want if he wants out. Tigers have invested a lot in Ivan. A lot. So to think they would just let him walk out for a couple hundred thousand is ridiculous. And I’d hope that’s pascoes mentality as well. He doesn’t seem to be the kind of bloke who would do Penrith any favours. I’d expect cash and 2 players if they want Cleary like reported would be the minimum.

I agree we have hand…. We have hand Jerry... Hand.

Who do they have that we want?
Backrow and centre seems to be our weakness... We can't do coach for player but we can do player for player heavily in our favour and best interest if in fact Cleary asks for and s granted a release.

I like some others aren't too bothered if Cleary goes provided we can replace him with an NRL quality coach.... It would however be a shame to see all the work he's put in cut short... We have been slowly improving under Ivan after all

Ivan is a good coach , many players on our roster seem in career best form or have improved dramatically

The shame would have getting NC in here next season and everyone thinking we suddenly become premiership favourites

We still have roster issues that need immediate solutions

I know this is waaaayyyyy out there , but Kent suggested about Penrith becoming a TPA for the Wests Tigers , when you really think about it …....... I can't think of a reason why legally you couldn't do it , OK it sounds ridiculous but , when you think of it this is a ridiculous one off situation , how often will a father be a head coach and a son be a possible game superstar ??

And talking ridiculous .......why does the idea of Cleary and Pascoe dropping a big steaming heap of poop on Gus's door step not sound out of the realms of possibility either

Just spitballing Ink

 

[momo_amp_medo]

Now I know there’s a strong chance you won’t be able to read this but I’m sure people whom are close to you and the club will…. this message is only directed at you pending if the media reports of you wanting out are true!

This is all just on my chest and I’m sure if the NRL 360 reports are true.... I speak for all Wests Tigers fans!

Where do I start..... us Wests Tigers fans have been on a long excruciating ride since 2011 - scandal after scandal had occurred and fans were starting to drop faster than flies along with the passion us tiger fans had for the game that arguably at stages could be stronger than any fan base!

Problems with management, players and facilities were surfaced all over media outlets - fans had enough - memebers on this forum started to disappear such as myself - membership rates dropped and so did our love for the game we once knew as rugby league.....

But then something happened in 2017 that gave us all hope.... a coach whom had been sacked for being to tired from a club who was having recent success - a coach who was eager for a job but not given one for 2 years by any club - when JT was sacked fans urged for Ivan Cleary to be the man, we had faith that this could be the guy to change things around for this club!

When you came aboard to a club with a broken fan base you told us all this is a new era and urged us to get on the bus - a bus you promised you would lead for a new profound direction that this club hasn’t pathed along for quite some while!

Your first day on the job it was clear that us fans believed you were the man - “Ivan the messiah” - “In Ivan we trust” - “”get on the bus” just to name a few!

Similar incident happened this time last year with a player wanting to leave mid season whom was under contract for a few more months - ironically you came out and questioned his integrity for not honouring his contract even though the club didn’t want him - these comments are ones that made us fans believe the man who was leading this club was a man with character and old school loyaltity..... guess we were wrong

I guess this whole “get on the bus” thing wasn’t you genuinely wanting us to succeed more just a marketing chip to get us fans to falsely believe you were in it for the long run and believed you could bring this club success - but no it was just dodgy strategy to sell memberships and to be used as your core advertising method when selling merchandise and tickets - along with to being able to entice players to pick up there bags and move locations just so they had the opportunity to play with you.... little did they know the coach they thought that was full of integrity was just an imposter

Russell Packer had the opportunity to win a premiership with the Dragons - what does he do? He moves to the tigers so he can play under Ivan and take this club to a preimership together!

Ben Matulino had a young family.... lived in NZ and had it all sorted out! You came knocking trying to sell him this picture of you leading the tigers to success in the long run..... he picked up his bags and moved to Australia due to the respect and trust he had in you!

A vision both Mbye and Reynolds were sold as well!

Decisions were being made us tiger fans weren’t too fond of but we didn’t care we had 110% trust in you and so did the board.... something you can kiss behind from not only this club but the whole league - players being signed on big deals - the players being chosen - but still this forum raged with “in Ivan with trust” posts!

Not only us fans but players committed to this mantra you set out throughout the league - but to pick it and go crawling back to the team who had sacked you telling the whole rugby league world you were “too tired to be a coach” just so you can play with a decent roster is such a significant dent in your creditability - I’ll tell you one thing you won’t be just losing the job but you’ll be losing the respect from the NRL as a whole that I can guarantee - go chase the money but just remember your legacy and built charisma of wanting to build clubs and being a people friendly coach has just gone down the drain and turned into the coaching version of SBW back in the day - we were mistaken of you character and now we can all see how you really are you sold your soul Mr Cleary and now the whole world can see it!

Be free to leave any messages you have for Ivan below hoping people within the club can read this!

Yep ….. pretty much along the lines of the thoughts that all fair minded NRL fans have in respect to this outcome.
There is a good SMH article by Andrew Webster on the subject.

 

[joe]

This is not helping our preparation for this weeks must win game, positive comments would be good, IC and the team need to concentrate on the weekend game.

 

[tsjonathan]

Now I know there’s a strong chance you won’t be able to read this but I’m sure people whom are close to you and the club will…. this message is only directed at you pending if the media reports of you wanting out are true!

This is all just on my chest and I’m sure if the NRL 360 reports are true.... I speak for all Wests Tigers fans!

Where do I start..... us Wests Tigers fans have been on a long excruciating ride since 2011 - scandal after scandal had occurred and fans were starting to drop faster than flies along with the passion us tiger fans had for the game that arguably at stages could be stronger than any fan base!

Problems with management, players and facilities were surfaced all over media outlets - fans had enough - memebers on this forum started to disappear such as myself - membership rates dropped and so did our love for the game we once knew as rugby league.....

But then something happened in 2017 that gave us all hope.... a coach whom had been sacked for being to tired from a club who was having recent success - a coach who was eager for a job but not given one for 2 years by any club - when JT was sacked fans urged for Ivan Cleary to be the man, we had faith that this could be the guy to change things around for this club!

When you came aboard to a club with a broken fan base you told us all this is a new era and urged us to get on the bus - a bus you promised you would lead for a new profound direction that this club hasn’t pathed along for quite some while!

Your first day on the job it was clear that us fans believed you were the man - “Ivan the messiah” - “In Ivan we trust” - “”get on the bus” just to name a few!

Similar incident happened this time last year with a player wanting to leave mid season whom was under contract for a few more months - ironically you came out and questioned his integrity for not honouring his contract even though the club didn’t want him - these comments are ones that made us fans believe the man who was leading this club was a man with character and old school loyaltity..... guess we were wrong

I guess this whole “get on the bus” thing wasn’t you genuinely wanting us to succeed more just a marketing chip to get us fans to falsely believe you were in it for the long run and believed you could bring this club success - but no it was just dodgy strategy to sell memberships and to be used as your core advertising method when selling merchandise and tickets - along with to being able to entice players to pick up there bags and move locations just so they had the opportunity to play with you.... little did they know the coach they thought that was full of integrity was just an imposter

The West’s Tigers has invested so much into you - Given you everything you’ve wanted like full control of recruitment - You were told to write any number for your son and that the board would tick it off!

Russell Packer had the opportunity to win a premiership with the Dragons - what does he do? He moves to the tigers so he can play under Ivan and take this club to a preimership together!

Ben Matulino had a young family.... lived in NZ and had it all sorted out! You came knocking trying to sell him this picture of you leading the tigers to success in the long run..... he picked up his bags and moved to Australia due to the respect and trust he had in you!

A vision both Mbye and Reynolds were sold as well!

Decisions were being made us tiger fans weren’t too fond of but we didn’t care we had 110% trust in you and so did the board.... something you can kiss behind from not only this club but the whole league - players being signed on big deals - the players being chosen - but still this forum raged with “in Ivan with trust” posts!

Not only us fans but players committed to this mantra you set out throughout the league - but to pick it and go crawling back to the team who had sacked you telling the whole rugby league world you were “too tired to be a coach” just so you can play with a decent roster is such a significant dent in your creditability - I’ll tell you one thing you won’t be just losing the job but you’ll be losing the respect from the NRL as a whole that I can guarantee - go chase the money but just remember your legacy and built charisma of wanting to build clubs and being a people friendly coach has just gone down the drain and turned into the coaching version of SBW back in the day - we were mistaken of you character and now we can all see how you really are you sold your soul Mr Cleary and now the whole world can see it!

Be free to leave any messages you have for Ivan below hoping people within the club can read this!

ain't nobody got time to read that…