Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

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Where did SG Relax thread go?
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It got merged into one of the other threads on the topic, the "Ivan Cleary" one I think. It didn't actually contain anything anyway, just an opinion like all the others out there…
 
I've always been happy with Luke Brooks, so have not been that fussed about the coach and son cow dung.

My word is my bond and I have little time for anyone other than the very underprivileged that show a lack of integrity. Any gloss that the man may have had, has now well and truly dulled due to his silence. All the other parties have spoken, so his lack of words is telling.
 
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Thinking about all this last night.

Lets look at the facts.

Ivan met with the Panthers Chairman/CEO. No drama's here they are friends and could have simply been meeting about Nathan. As far as we know it was the panthers who initiated this meeting not Ivan

Ivan Informed Justin on Monday after the Griffin got sacked. That he had met with the Panthers. However no release has been asked for.

Pascoe and the club have said there would be no release granted IF one was asked for.

There has only been one person who has said it was Ivan who bought up the idea of going straight away and that is Paul Kent. As far as i am aware no other person has come out and said this.

Brain Fletcher from the Panthers came out and said nothing has been offered to Ivan as of yet.
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It seems like we are all jumping on Ivan due to what Paul Kent said. He has no proof, he is the only one that has bought that up. Maybe just maybe he hasn't got this correct?

It beats me how you can know all those facts yet not be aware of this

"We asked if Ivan had an interest in our coaching position and he said 'yes'," Panthers chief executive Brian Fletcher told Fairfax Media."

It changes everything.
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Fair enough i must have missed that.

What we don't know is the details though. How do we know they didn't say. "if Gus wasn't at the panthers would you be interested in coaching here again in the future?"

I get it that might be a bit far fetched the point is we don't know the context of the question ask to Ivan.

Until Ivan comes out and says his part. I will sit, wait and hope.

If it all does pan out that he goes i will be jumping up and down like every other supporter.

No point getting all worked up over rumors
 
no point getting all worked up over rumors - this is correct… and no point getting all worked up if he goes - just sue him for breach of contract, his reputation will suffer if he goes

the quicker this circus goes away the better - it is damaging the West Tigers brand
 
From everything I've seen of Ivan Cleary in the NRL it has been his integrity that has impressed me most. He's been a straight shooter his whole career and I'm happy to give him the benefit of the doubt until proved otherwise.
 
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So what would we all say if iC and JP have a conference today to say they’ve extended his contract another 2 years?
Would we all say that he’s still shifty and not trust what he’s doing?
There’s allegedly a good chance he was blindsided by this offer from Penrith, and like any person core values or not he would naturally think them over, it would only be human not to.
Hopefully today this is all put to bed one way or the other and we can all move forward….
1 Cleary stays and everything keeps on moving, albeit with NC coming soon
2 Cleary goes, someone like a Maguire comes in and galvanizes everything and we become stronger....
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I was going to post something similar to this.

After all the furore yesterday afternoon, the undisputed facts of the matter are that Penrith have approached Cleary in some form, he has told the Tigers and the Tigers have made media statements that they will not release Ivan.

Whether or not Ivan is weighing up an offer - I don't think that really matters and I don't think it is a smear on Ivan's character.

Imagine if you were in your regular contract job, which you liked, and you had long-term aspirations with your current company and you liked the people and the challenges… and then your best mate from Company B comes to you and says: "I can guarantee you a contract of double-length, same seniority, double the pay and we get to work together in the best facilities".

Do you straight away say "nah mate, I'm a man/woman of my convictions and I'm going to honour my current contract"? Or do you take a few days to mull over this opportunity?

With respect to your current employer, do you then go to them and say "look, I've been offered a really substantial deal by Company B and I wanted to respect you and let you know that is has happened and I'm thinking about it. I expect you are going to hear rumours on the grapevine, so I wanted to come to you first. I've been caught by surprise by these developments and I can't make a decision right this minute. I like it here, and if you could match the conditions of their offer, I'd really like to weigh up two equal offers."

All of that sounds fair to me, and in terms of the facts presented, they are the only things that have happened. Some fans have taken Wests' media posturing to be about Ivan Cleary, but actually I think it's more about taking on Penrith very early in the piece. I think Tigers have been very aggressive to come out in the media and basically say "if any of this Penrith talk is true, we will fight it with everything we have." Worst thing to do for Tigers would be to go quiet and let Penrith think it will be a cakewalk.

But Ivan himself - what does the man say to placate fans right this moment? He's got a team to coach for this weekend. There's only two things Ivan can say to appease Tigers fans - #1 I have had an offer but I've decided to reject it; #2 I have had a substantial offer and I need time to consider it, without putting my current duties on hold.

Outcome #1 - unlikely to happen within a few days of Griffin being sacked, if the offer is genuinely new and substantial. Who would truly make a decision that quickly, even with the strongest convictions - sport is about making the most of your finite-length career.

Outcome #2 - fair and reasonable, however the stickler is that Tigers have already said they won't release. So how can Ivan come out and say publicly that he's considering a rival offer, when his current employers have already publicly stated that they won't let him? Tigers have essentially backed Ivan into a corner, and that's why I guess he hasn't made a statement yet - not because he's gone, but because anything he says would be contradictory to comments already made by both Penrith and Wests. Ivan also can't come out and say he's accepted an offer, because legally he's not allowed to and he gets himself into legal trouble by making such public statements.

Cleary can't avoid the press for long however; he has head coach duties and they are sure as hell going to bail him up.

I think people are mostly being fair so far - surprised, and if Ivan does ask to leave there will be huge backlash, but also he hasn't said or done anything in public yet.

You can't hate on Ivan for weighing up what is likely a very attractive job offer.
 
Like most of you I've got opinions on how this has all played out and who the bad guys and good guys are, if there are any good guys. I won't bore you with them because ultimately our opinions won't change how this plays out.
My thoughts are for our future. We have a game on the weekend and I can't see how this drama won't have a substantial effect on the outcome particularly against a team who've averaged 51.5 points against us in our last 4 games.
My bigger concern is recruitment. Depending on who you believe we are looking to recruit 4 - 6 players for 2019 and beyond. I think we all agree our list needs significant beefing up with quality first graders, not ISP level players. What quality player in their right mind would come to WT without knowing who was coaching.
Personally I think Cleary will go and frankly after this drama I'd say "good riddance". But, whichever way it plays out, it must be sorted inside one week or we risk longer term damage to the club.
 
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We’re gonna get pumped by Canberra. There’ll be a huge Cleary backlash at Leichhardt vs Dragons from the 7,000 who attend. Hope I’m wrong. But that’s generally how things pan out at the WT.
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This will be put to bed before Leichhardt. Either Cleary will upgrade and extend his Tigers contract or he will not be at Leichhardt.
 
Re analysing the pascoe video again…
the fact he mentions that we are going to 'fight this'.
It signals there is intent there by ivan, right?
 
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Interesting tweet from Gould earlier after someone said that he should apologize to the Tigers members…which Gus 'liked'

https://twitter.com/PhilGould15/status/1026784314631933952

Its an interesting tweet alright.

Could mean a number of things though. My first thought is that he is saying Cleary went to them.

David ONeill chairman of Penrith - Ivan's very good mate- reportedly got the ball rolling with this whole scenario.
Gus may not have been the catalyst in this move however he is shouldering the blame

I think that’s going to be Gould’s position, I didnt meet with Cleary, it was ONeill. Thus, he can hold all this at arms length and (in his mind) come out smelling like roses.
But, with the role and influence Gould has at Penrith, plus with the personality type he seems to be, this didn’t happen without the big fat GOULD stamp of approval.
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Indeed
 
@ said:
Re analysing the pascoe video again…
the fact he mentions that we are going to 'fight this'.
It signals there is intent there by ivan, right?
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Yes.

A lot of denial going on but thats where it is.
 
I watched the NRL 360 debate late last night and to say it left me gobsmacked was an understatement. There was a fair amount of love and understanding for Cleary saying stuff like he has more obligations to his son. I actually disagree with that, he has an obligation to his son as a father, he has an obligation to all the players he lured to us from O/S and other clubs and signed them on big deals with his vision. He had from what we believe full autonomy within reason over football operation.

The other things that floored me is when these meeting actually took place, over a week ago but nothing was said until late Monday afternoon. Why not be transparent even if your considering going, give the tigers every chance to sort out thier affairs, instead he left us caught on the hop. They were carrying on about his integrity that doesnt sound like integrity to me.

Im actually getting sick to death of hearing about his son, be a father be a man stop hiding in the shadows and show some of that integrity. Hand in your opal card while your at it, I cant believe there is no truth in this as there is so much smoke you cant see your hand in front of your face. Things have happened and he has put his son's playing career above any other of his many obligations. Remembering he could go and coach him in 2 years time but the suggestion that he in fact put forward the notion of next year is beyond ridiculous and shows no integrity whatsoever. No one has ever said you cant coach your son i believe people are bending over backwards to make it happen either here or there. I can see how there is a better option but do it in 2 years time.
 
I think it beggars belief to think Ivan Cleary wakes up one day and says "Gee I'd love to coach Penrith. I know they've got a coach already but I'll just call up and ask!"

I'm guessing IC spoke to the Penrith CEO who has said something like "If the job was available would you be interested?" And he said yes. Gus can play semantics all he wants but the insinuation that this was all Cleary's idea is ridiculous IMO.
 
To echo what others have said, this ends one of two ways

1\. He gets released with massive compensation given to us

2\. He extends his contract for 2 more years, equalling the length offered by Penrith. Though, probably equal monetarily.

I can live with either.
 
@ said:
So what would we all say if iC and JP have a conference today to say they’ve extended his contract another 2 years?
Would we all say that he’s still shifty and not trust what he’s doing?
There’s allegedly a good chance he was blindsided by this offer from Penrith, and like any person core values or not he would naturally think them over, it would only be human not to.
Hopefully today this is all put to bed one way or the other and we can all move forward….
1 Cleary stays and everything keeps on moving, albeit with NC coming soon
2 Cleary goes, someone like a Maguire comes in and galvanizes everything and we become stronger....
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Until Brisbane or Melbourne decides they want Madge as coach and he bolts and we're back to square one. Until he stand up to the bullies history will keep repeating.
 
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I watched the NRL 360 debate late last night and to say it left me gobsmacked was an understatement. There was a fair amount of love and understanding for Cleary saying stuff like he has more obligations to his son. I actually disagree with that, he has an obligation to his son as a father, he has an obligation to all the players he lured to us from O/S and other clubs and signed them on big deals with his vision. He had from what we believe full autonomy within reason over football operation.

The other things that floored me is when these meeting actually took place, over a week ago but nothing was said until late Monday afternoon. Why not be transparent even if your considering going, give the tigers every chance to sort out thier affairs, instead he left us caught on the hop. They were carrying on about his integrity that doesnt sound like integrity to me.

Im actually getting sick to death of hearing about his son, be a father be a man stop hiding in the shadows and show some of that integrity. Hand in your opal card while your at it, I cant believe there is no truth in this as there is so much smoke you cant see your hand in front of your face. Things have happened and he has put his son's playing career above any other of his many obligations. Remembering he could go and coach him in 2 years time but the suggestion that he in fact put forward the notion of next year is beyond ridiculous and shows no integrity whatsoever. No one has ever said you cant coach your son i believe people are bending over backwards to make it happen either here or there. I can see how there is a better option but do it in 2 years time.
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Well said Doc !
 
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