Ivan Cleary - THREAD..

[Eddie]

This was always going to happen. Plain and simple - Cleary was evasive and sheepish the final 6 weeks when asked on the subject. It's clear for me he wants to be at Penrith sooner rather then later.

Part of me says bugger Penrith lets tell them to come back and get him in 2 years. Just to see Gould look like a dill. Then part of me says why prolong the agony - get as much compensation as possible - get in a adequate coach - and move on and hope it all backfires on Penrith. If we cant get significant compensation (cash and or players) plus a decent coach then he stays where he is under contract.

Its hard for us to win out of this.

If Cleary stays every loss next year a lot of fans will be ropable saying he doesn't want to be here. And if we release him now people will say we rolled over. Unfortunate situation - and it appears the coach is not really all he was cracked up to be with his on the bus messaging.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

For Christ's sake, can we forget players as compensation. We'd want top tier players, and what top tier player who just made it to the second week of the finals at a club who looks to be playing regular finals in the foreseeable future would want to be pushed out of that club to go to a club that has missed the finals 7 years straight and with possibly no determined coach?

 

[supercoach]

This was always going to happen. Plain and simple - Cleary was evasive and sheepish the final 6 weeks when asked on the subject. It's clear for me he wants to be at Penrith sooner rather then later.

Part of me says bugger Penrith lets tell them to come back and get him in 2 years. Just to see Gould look like a dill. Then part of me says why prolong the agony - get as much compensation as possible - get in a adequate coach - and move on and hope it all backfires on Penrith. If we cant get significant compensation (cash and or players) plus a decent coach then he stays where he is under contract.

Its hard for us to win out of this.

If Cleary stays every loss next year a lot of fans will be ropable saying he doesn't want to be here. And if we release him now people will say we rolled over. Unfortunate situation - and it appears the coach is not really all he was cracked up to be with his on the bus messaging.

Pretty much how I see it. I think I would hold him to his contract, unless a great coach pops out of thin air or Penrith’s compensation is to good to refuse. Two years is a long time in the NRL anything could happen

 

[happy_tiger]

Christ, we can’t have Cleary running off with all our secrets. Other clubs might finally learn the secret about how to miss the finals for 7 consecutive seasons.

Lol

So your happy to have him here for the next 2 years and then run off to Penrith?

If it means keeping all of our precious secrets under lock and key, you bet i am.

Our secret /truth is already out there

Hobbo spilled the beans , "plodders" , and if they attempt to overachieve force them out , simple

 

[beachtiger]

What an absolute circus with the Ringleader being Gus Gould!!! He is a master manipulator and if the Cleary's can't see that then good luck to them.

If what is being reported is correct and Gus is playing everyone off against each other to make IC's position untenable with timeline of contracts can you imagine the media circus if we stick strong and make IC work out the remaining two years of his contract before going back to be Gus's lap dog!

There will be weekly comments from Gus saying how he can't believe the Tigers are trying to hang onto someone that doesn't want to be there, it's stifling our options to attract players blah blah blah!!

He is an abhorrent human being!!!

 

[TIGERPOWER]

Fox sports reporting Ivan Cleary in deep negotiations to sign with Penrith a 3 year contract from 2021.

I don’t know how people think his position is tenable here. **_The fact he continues to meet with panthers while employed by us shows he has absolutely no integrity._** How can we have a coach that is leaving to our competitor in 2 years and will take all our secrets plus maybe some players when he leaves. Time to cut our losses, get some compensation in the form of a player or money and get someone else in. What a circus this has become and will become. Imagine the last year of his agreement with us, will he be meeting with players behind the scenes to sign them to the panthers.

There's no facts there… This is fox sports - well known for not being totally truthful.
IF this does eventuate then question his integrity all you like, I will join you... But until then let's be careful taking foxsports/nrl 360/any media's word as gospel eh?

Right ….. let me see if I got this right please.
Gould is going to offer a 2019-2020 contract to a coach on a clear understanding that he will be out of job in 2021 because they signed Cleary in 2021?
Let me run out and accept that offer.
No .... this is either bull-dust or Gould is playing high stakes poker with Pascoe and the two Cleary's are in the pot.
I would say the latter.
No formal contract signed yet by Cleary junior so negotiations (final sign off) seems to me to be based on what happens with Dadda. I am afraid it all points to negotiated release with compo. Pascoe will need to be firm on that aspect and club not seen to roll over.
As far as Cleary senior is concerned (if that happens) he will lose a lot of respect in eyes of lots of people both within this clubs community and NRL people generally./

It seems Cleary senior has parked his integrity to the side in order to coach his son at whatever cost. Unless the Clearys were on board with gus’s master plan, there is no way he would be talking and leaking things to the media. To me Ivan is worse than Gould in this whole thing, and the sooner we let him go the better.

 

[jadtiger]

Fox sports reporting Ivan Cleary in deep negotiations to sign with Penrith a 3 year contract from 2021.

I don’t know how people think his position is tenable here. **_The fact he continues to meet with panthers while employed by us shows he has absolutely no integrity._** How can we have a coach that is leaving to our competitor in 2 years and will take all our secrets plus maybe some players when he leaves. Time to cut our losses, get some compensation in the form of a player or money and get someone else in. What a circus this has become and will become. Imagine the last year of his agreement with us, will he be meeting with players behind the scenes to sign them to the panthers.

There's no facts there… This is fox sports - well known for not being totally truthful.
IF this does eventuate then question his integrity all you like, I will join you... But until then let's be careful taking foxsports/nrl 360/any media's word as gospel eh?

Right ….. let me see if I got this right please.
Gould is going to offer a 2019-2020 contract to a coach on a clear understanding that he will be out of job in 2021 because they signed Cleary in 2021?
Let me run out and accept that offer.
No .... this is either bull-dust or Gould is playing high stakes poker with Pascoe and the two Cleary's are in the pot.
I would say the latter.
No formal contract signed yet by Cleary junior so negotiations (final sign off) seems to me to be based on what happens with Dadda. I am afraid it all points to negotiated release with compo. Pascoe will need to be firm on that aspect and club not seen to roll over.
As far as Cleary senior is concerned (if that happens) he will lose a lot of respect in eyes of lots of people both within this clubs community and NRL people generally./

It seems Cleary senior has parked his integrity to the side in order to coach his son at whatever cost. Unless the Clearys were on board with gus’s master plan, there is no way he would be talking and leaking things to the media. To me Ivan is worse than Gould in this whole thing, and the sooner we let him go the better.

I disagree, as always you seem to be unable to differentiate between agenda/speculation and what are actual facts.

 

[Fletch]

News on Nathan’s contact extension a few days after the Panthers 2018 season finishing, and speculative news from multiple media sources (Fox Sports/SMH) that Ivan is negotiating to coach Penrith from 2021 suggests that an understanding of intent from both Cleary’s could of been unofficially resolved some time ago. Ivan’s reading of a carefully prepared statement and unwillingness to discuss was him shutting down the narrative, so the Tigers and Penrith could complete their 2018 seasons.

Benji in a recent article alluded to conversations with Ivan about Ivan’s fear of damage to his reputation is telling. There’s no doubt that if Ivan has been negotiating with Penrith behind the scenes, this will be considered by many as a treasonous and dishonorable act to the Tigers club, players, sponsors and supporters. If this proves correct than I think it’s a situation that’ll pain Ivan, damage his integrity and be eternally regretful for him. But it’s a desision he may be prepared to make such is his strong bond with Nathan and their desire to work together, and that’s understandable it’s just an unusual one that unfortunately leaves the Tigers club as the innocent sufferer in all this, and it’ll be difficult for those in Tigers colours not hold some sort of grudge towards Ivan.

I agree that if Ivan stayed with the Tigers he would preform professionally but the situation simply becomes untenable, and the club is likely to start “drifting” again as Ivan’s relationship dynamic with Tigers players, staff, sponsors and fans begins to shift and highly likely erode and sour as the crux of the problem will be his long term allegiance to Penrith.

If Ivan reaches an agreement to coach Penrith in 2021 then I don’t think the Tigers club has much choice other than to negotiate a settlement and let him go now, and the Tigers try to appoint another coach before November. We have to move on!

 

[TIGERPOWER]

There's no facts there… This is fox sports - well known for not being totally truthful.
IF this does eventuate then question his integrity all you like, I will join you... But until then let's be careful taking foxsports/nrl 360/any media's word as gospel eh?

Right ….. let me see if I got this right please.
Gould is going to offer a 2019-2020 contract to a coach on a clear understanding that he will be out of job in 2021 because they signed Cleary in 2021?
Let me run out and accept that offer.
No .... this is either bull-dust or Gould is playing high stakes poker with Pascoe and the two Cleary's are in the pot.
I would say the latter.
No formal contract signed yet by Cleary junior so negotiations (final sign off) seems to me to be based on what happens with Dadda. I am afraid it all points to negotiated release with compo. Pascoe will need to be firm on that aspect and club not seen to roll over.
As far as Cleary senior is concerned (if that happens) he will lose a lot of respect in eyes of lots of people both within this clubs community and NRL people generally./

It seems Cleary senior has parked his integrity to the side in order to coach his son at whatever cost. Unless the Clearys were on board with gus’s master plan, there is no way he would be talking and leaking things to the media. To me Ivan is worse than Gould in this whole thing, and the sooner we let him go the better.

I disagree, as always you seem to be unable to differentiate between agenda/speculation and what are actual facts.

We will soon find out. Where there is smoke there is fire. Funny how none of the coaching speculation with the other teams has stuck. Yet the stories of Cleary to the panthers just won’t go away. Why do you think that is?

 

[jadtiger]

Right ….. let me see if I got this right please.
Gould is going to offer a 2019-2020 contract to a coach on a clear understanding that he will be out of job in 2021 because they signed Cleary in 2021?
Let me run out and accept that offer.
No .... this is either bull-dust or Gould is playing high stakes poker with Pascoe and the two Cleary's are in the pot.
I would say the latter.
No formal contract signed yet by Cleary junior so negotiations (final sign off) seems to me to be based on what happens with Dadda. I am afraid it all points to negotiated release with compo. Pascoe will need to be firm on that aspect and club not seen to roll over.
As far as Cleary senior is concerned (if that happens) he will lose a lot of respect in eyes of lots of people both within this clubs community and NRL people generally./

It seems Cleary senior has parked his integrity to the side in order to coach his son at whatever cost. Unless the Clearys were on board with gus’s master plan, there is no way he would be talking and leaking things to the media. To me Ivan is worse than Gould in this whole thing, and the sooner we let him go the better.

I disagree, as always you seem to be unable to differentiate between agenda/speculation and what are actual facts.

We will soon find out. Where there is smoke there is fire. Funny how none of the coaching speculation with the other teams has stuck. Yet the stories of Cleary to the panthers just won’t go away. Why do you think that is?

Gould

 

[Tigerdave]

Not sure why there would be a need to release him early, it's not like a coach can "tank it" in games nor would they want to leave with a bad win/loss record.

If he goes in 2021, he goes, it gives us a couple of years to find a good fit and there's a few out there who would be looking for a coaching job anyway.

The club would be silly to release him early, but can't imagine Ivan wanting to work with Gould again given the past, the guy clearly can't be trusted. He ousted a coach who got the club to the finals no less and it was the guy who replaced IC, how dumb would IC have to be to go back to the Panthers with Gus still there?

 

[WT2K]

Gould the slimey turd still at it I see. Ah well, in the words of our former captain.. It is what it is.

 

[happy_tiger]

What an absolute circus with the Ringleader being Gus Gould!!! He is a master manipulator and if the Cleary's can't see that then good luck to them.

If what is being reported is correct and Gus is playing everyone off against each other to make IC's position untenable with timeline of contracts can you imagine the media circus if we stick strong and make IC work out the remaining two years of his contract before going back to be Gus's lap dog!

There will be weekly comments from Gus saying how he can't believe the Tigers are trying to hang onto someone that doesn't want to be there, it's stifling our options to attract players blah blah blah!!

He is an abhorrent human being!!!

Again the club could of been far smarter , signed players in our positions of weakness early in the season and make us look like a viable option for NC and IC and any other players coming off ciontract

 

[Yossarian]

What an absolute circus with the Ringleader being Gus Gould!!! He is a master manipulator and if the Cleary's can't see that then good luck to them.

If what is being reported is correct and Gus is playing everyone off against each other to make IC's position untenable with timeline of contracts can you imagine the media circus if we stick strong and make IC work out the remaining two years of his contract before going back to be Gus's lap dog!

There will be weekly comments from Gus saying how he can't believe the Tigers are trying to hang onto someone that doesn't want to be there, it's stifling our options to attract players blah blah blah!!

He is an abhorrent human being!!!

Again the club could of been far smarter , signed players in our positions of weakness early in the season and make us look like a viable option for NC and IC and any other players coming off ciontract

We went 12-12 this year with our $700k half off the field pretty much all season. Surely if you're Nathan Cleary you'd think you're good for a couple more wins at least.

 

[happy_tiger]

What an absolute circus with the Ringleader being Gus Gould!!! He is a master manipulator and if the Cleary's can't see that then good luck to them.

If what is being reported is correct and Gus is playing everyone off against each other to make IC's position untenable with timeline of contracts can you imagine the media circus if we stick strong and make IC work out the remaining two years of his contract before going back to be Gus's lap dog!

There will be weekly comments from Gus saying how he can't believe the Tigers are trying to hang onto someone that doesn't want to be there, it's stifling our options to attract players blah blah blah!!

He is an abhorrent human being!!!

Again the club could of been far smarter , signed players in our positions of weakness early in the season and make us look like a viable option for NC and IC and any other players coming off ciontract

We went 12-12 this year with our $700k half off the field pretty much all season. Surely if you're Nathan Cleary you'd think you're good for a couple more wins at least.

We still missed the Top 8 by three wins Yoss

We are a long way away from the top sides

 

[Spartan117]

We went 12-12 this year with our $700k half off the field pretty much all season. Surely if you're Nathan Cleary you'd think you're good for a couple more wins at least.

Yoss - Really respect your insight as you know.

Im not sure Reynolds Would have /Will add that much to us when fit next year.

Our Fwds are still not formidable enough IMO

 

[jirskyr]

I don't really understand the questions of integrity if a bloke like Ivan would choose to negotiate a contract w Penrith for 2021\. Players do it all the time, e.g. Kalyn Ponga. You are allowed to look out for yourself years in advance and I think the challenging part is fans who call on this as disingenuous, as if people on contracts don't fulfill their end of the agreement just because the contract has a definite end date.

Ivan has a contract with us for 2 seasons and beyond that he owes us nothing and has no obligations. Depending on results, there is a reasonable chance that we don't extend Ivan, so I can understand that if another club offers him a 3-year deal starting in 2 years, that gives him 5 years surety, which is more than any coach currently has.

Now in terms of signing a longer-term deal then the latest employer agitating for a release from an earlier contract - nothing unusual there, you just don't permit it if not in your favour.

The main question, as illustrated by momo above, is how Penrith would propose to facilitate Ivan Cleary starting as head coach in 2021\. Do you ignore all his results with Tigers for the next 2 years? Do you ignore all the form of NC during that same period? Who do you sign as coach in the interim - senior coaches might not take such a closed contract, and junior coaches are… well, junior.

Imagine if you were Penrith and signed Madge for 2019-2020, and he did a terrific job, and you are already in the pot with IC from 2021\. Madness. What if you sign a junior like Ciraldo and he gets similarly good results? Sure NC will be happy for his father to come over, but what about all the other players who rather like Ciraldo or the interim coach?

Finally, people talk about Penrith having a "premiership window". Those windows are typically 3 years wide, and Penrith have expended 2018, so Ivan 2021 would stand to come in at the end of the "window".

That is, of course, unless Penrith are supposing that they have an infinite premiership window, along with their infinite rolling 5-year plan.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

If they sign Cleary from 2021, its a no brainer Ciiraldo will fill the role till then.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

If they sign Cleary from 2021, its a no brainer Ciiraldo will fill the role till then.

Maaaate ….... you'd be a no brainer coach to sign contract like that. But again he may be that.
Arrangement worst than a pit-full of snakes.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

I don't see it as a bad thing for a guy with his experience. If he does well over the next 2 years, suddenly his stock rises. Id jump at the chance if i was him.