Ivan Cleary

@jirskyr said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1042202) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1042109) said:
People on FB and Twitter are generally unhappy about everything.

That's my point exactly. There is a lot of media noise nowadays and if you selectively listen to parts of it, you will hear only what you already think.

Take anything at all, any concept or review or opinion and almost all of those that are digested are either totally in agreement with your own, or totally opposite. For example, if you read product reviews on Amazon, the most easily available and the most likely searched for are the 5-star or 1-star ratings. On metacritic, it is the >90% or the <50% reviews. Nobody goes looking for "the middle" opinion, the "ok" opinion. Average Joe doesn't even write or post about something average, they only speak up if they love it or loathe it.

So yeah not at all surprised that @Cultured_Bogan can find lots of folks online who are disenfranchised. It's probably always been true that a significant proportion of League followers are falling away from the game, as new supporters come in. But in decades past, you didn't really hear about all the individual opinions. E.g. where are all the North Sydney supporters now? I am sure tens to perhaps hundreds of thousands of Bears supporters got pretty disenfranchised around 2000, but nobody was really listening in back then.

I personally am not disenfranchised with the NRL at all and I consciously avoid too much social media to try keep the bitching to a minimum. I focus on the actual matches played, and in that respect modern technology helps me connect with on-field action like never before.

And when we specifically talk about examples of "poor administration" by the NRL, things are offered up:
- failure to grow game in country, sometimes questionable support for international game
- potential salary cap issues, underhanded club deals, haves and have-nots
- perceived favouritism
- inconsistent decision-making in judiciary and refereeing

Probably all true to some extent.

But does one simultaneously balance those negatives with the known positives of the administration?
- Men of League and Beyond Blue
- NRL community programs - State of Mind, Voice Against Violence, School To work, League in Harmony
- Brain Cancer round
- Club engagement with schools
- New Women's NRL and rep competition, annual women's round
- Growth of Pacific Is footy and elevation of Tonga to Tier 1
- Indigenous round and All Stars match
- Amalgamation and oversight of Australia-wide touch football
- NRL active support of inclusivity, e.g. Macklemore, same-sex marriage statement, Israel Folau statement
- NRL concussion protocols and ongoing player safety
- RLPA bargaining agreement
- Largest ever TV deal
- NSW Govt investment in 3 state-of-art Rugby League stadiums
- Consistently top-rating Finals, Grand Final and Origin TV viewership
- Monopoly over Pay-TV highest rated programs
- Investment in NRL.com and match streaming technologies in partnership w Telstra and Foxtel
etc.

I don't deny that the NRL either founded or support great initiatives, and I'm fully aware of most of the above.

At the end of the day, it is a byproduct of the game though. While the product suffers (via administration,) all those positives are less significant.

You're happy with the organisation, and I am aware that you're not the only one. I'm not claiming that social media is solely an echo chamber for the disenfranchised, plenty love the game as much as ever and that's great for them (and you.) I'm not, and there's plenty like me. I love my club and will continue to support them, but the administration has lost me as an avid fan of the wider game.
 
@Cultured_Bogan said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1042216) said:
@jirskyr said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1042202) said:
@GNR4LIFE said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1042109) said:
People on FB and Twitter are generally unhappy about everything.

That's my point exactly. There is a lot of media noise nowadays and if you selectively listen to parts of it, you will hear only what you already think.

Take anything at all, any concept or review or opinion and almost all of those that are digested are either totally in agreement with your own, or totally opposite. For example, if you read product reviews on Amazon, the most easily available and the most likely searched for are the 5-star or 1-star ratings. On metacritic, it is the >90% or the <50% reviews. Nobody goes looking for "the middle" opinion, the "ok" opinion. Average Joe doesn't even write or post about something average, they only speak up if they love it or loathe it.

So yeah not at all surprised that @Cultured_Bogan can find lots of folks online who are disenfranchised. It's probably always been true that a significant proportion of League followers are falling away from the game, as new supporters come in. But in decades past, you didn't really hear about all the individual opinions. E.g. where are all the North Sydney supporters now? I am sure tens to perhaps hundreds of thousands of Bears supporters got pretty disenfranchised around 2000, but nobody was really listening in back then.

I personally am not disenfranchised with the NRL at all and I consciously avoid too much social media to try keep the bitching to a minimum. I focus on the actual matches played, and in that respect modern technology helps me connect with on-field action like never before.

And when we specifically talk about examples of "poor administration" by the NRL, things are offered up:
- failure to grow game in country, sometimes questionable support for international game
- potential salary cap issues, underhanded club deals, haves and have-nots
- perceived favouritism
- inconsistent decision-making in judiciary and refereeing

Probably all true to some extent.

But does one simultaneously balance those negatives with the known positives of the administration?
- Men of League and Beyond Blue
- NRL community programs - State of Mind, Voice Against Violence, School To work, League in Harmony
- Brain Cancer round
- Club engagement with schools
- New Women's NRL and rep competition, annual women's round
- Growth of Pacific Is footy and elevation of Tonga to Tier 1
- Indigenous round and All Stars match
- Amalgamation and oversight of Australia-wide touch football
- NRL active support of inclusivity, e.g. Macklemore, same-sex marriage statement, Israel Folau statement
- NRL concussion protocols and ongoing player safety
- RLPA bargaining agreement
- Largest ever TV deal
- NSW Govt investment in 3 state-of-art Rugby League stadiums
- Consistently top-rating Finals, Grand Final and Origin TV viewership
- Monopoly over Pay-TV highest rated programs
- Investment in NRL.com and match streaming technologies in partnership w Telstra and Foxtel
etc.

I don't deny that the NRL either founded or support great initiatives, and I'm fully aware of most of the above.

At the end of the day, it is a byproduct of the game though. While the product suffers (via administration,) all those positives are less significant.

You're happy with the organisation, and I am aware that you're not the only one. I'm not claiming that social media is solely an echo chamber for the disenfranchised, plenty love the game as much as ever and that's great for them (and you.) I'm not, and there's plenty like me. I love my club and will continue to support them, but the administration has lost me as an avid fan of the wider game.


I’m with you CB. The administration adopts a reactive, inconsistent approach to running the game. It is ‘knee jerk’ and amateurish. Greenberg is tepid at best. He makes strong statements to fuel his ego and underlying insecurities and then does not follow through.
I am a lost cause in that I love the game no matter what - even though it drives me nuts. However, nearly everyone I speak to in my circle of family/friends/colleagues is less interested in the game because of:
- player poor behaviour
- inept refereeing
- perceived favouritism.
Governance needs to change or they’ll be no elite game to govern!
 
Ivan Cleary on 360 being interrogated by Kent. Cleary losing credibility with every passing moment. He is upset his integrity has been questioned- give me a break!!
 
@Tiger_Steve said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1044340) said:
Ivan Cleary on 360 being interrogated by Kent. Cleary losing credibility with every passing moment. He is upset his integrity has been questioned- give me a break!!

I wish Buzz was there also but it was still fun watching him squirm.
 
I hated Jason Taylor but at least he was up front and was who and what he said he would be.

Cleary is nothing but a spin artist who thinks the game owes him something.

Whats more he has won 0 premierships.

ZERO
 
Ivan played us as fools. Why did he sign a contract with us in the first place ?

Completely used us, when in reality he always had an affiliation/ connection with Penrith (unfinished business as he calls it)
 
i think the whole cleary saga was all about his son not wanting to leave his mates at penrith " dad im not coming to tigers "
then cleary chose his son over us good luck to him.
 
Upset about his integrity being questioned again. Has Ivan ever taken responsibility for anything? He must be really unlucky being caught up in this crap all the time.
 
What about his unfinished business line something drawing him to Penrith. Sounded like someone telling lies in a job interview that’s not too sure what they are saying
 
@Jedi_Tiger said in [Ivan Cleary](/post/1044352) said:
i think the whole cleary saga was all about his son not wanting to leave his mates at penrith " dad im not coming to tigers "
then cleary chose his son over us good luck to him.

Cleary had every intention of seeing out his contract at Wests Tigers. Penrith put the hard word on him and offered him big coin. Cleary played hardball - Penrith sacked Griffin to show how committed they were to Cleary and in the end, his boy was used to drag him across.

It was grubby by the Panthers powerbroker(s). I think in hindsight Cleary did the right thing leaving immediately as opposed to signing for 2020 and hanging around at the WT.

It meant we could move onto a new coach and on from the whole saga.

Nathan was never leaving Penrith.
 
Ivan leaving is the best thing to happen to Wests Tigers since Sheens arrived and won the premiership in 2005. Madge is the best coach we have had an exactly what this underperforming joint needed. No nonsense tough love and a good man manager. He plays the long game and doesn’t overpay players for short term success. Now Cleary is blowing up the joint to prove Gus wrong. He wants his own team we’ll take them back from Tigers NSW Cup.
 
He is a liar, says whatever he thinks will appease the person questioning. Makes it up as he goes.

We dodged a MASSIVE bullet though....Nathan Cleary is on a million a year and has had MORE ball than ANY half in the comp in the opposition 20 all year...

More attacking ball than any 7 all year....and has SIX try assists.

Stop and think about that. He lacks the ability to put guys into holes and overlaps. SIX try assists.

By way of comparison, Brooks has 13..and people on here hammer Brooks....he has 13 v 6...!!!

Slimey Moses, with similar ball to Cleary, has 20.

If we had of got Ivan and Nathan for five years, we would have been absolutely screwed.
 
He was all hype from day one. Couldn’t even keep the players that were off contract. The bus rubbish was one of the darkest times in the clubs history.
 
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