JAC

[Russell]

These so called ‘dirt hitups’ are a blight on rugby league. Wingers are being de-skilled. Give me a winger any day with the pace to be put into the clear and sprint 60 or. 70 metres to score. If you don’t have genuine pace you have no business being on the wing.

I agree. I speculated in an earlier post regarding Ken Irvine that as wingers have got bigger and stronger they have been sacrificing some pace in order to make the "dirty hit-ups".

Ken Irvine was only 5ft 8in and 78 kilos. He won a professional spring race over 100 yards in 9.3 seconds. Coincidentally Mike Cleary, who played for Souths in the 1960s, won a bronze in the Perth Commonwealth Games 100 yards timed at 9.3 seconds also.

It's hard to believe that with all the improvements in sports science and training methods over the past 60 years, no-one would get close to them today.

So I agree. The game is less of a spectacle with wingers doing the work of forwards, but most lacking the blistering pace of the old timers.

Dude ,that’s not true. It just seems it because they’re absolutely huge now. For the most part a lot of these guys are faster over shorter distances ,they just die really quickly .
I think the nostalgia fairy has sprinkled its dust on you . I watched games recently from the 80s , 90s , 00s early 10s and today .
And whilst the older games , had much more “action “, the general skill level was well below today’s game . It was extremely noticeable. From the way they pass , to offloading the ball with 2 hands , to the ball always hitting the deck , knock backs being actually called knock backs , so it lead to the call on the deck much more often .
The reality is , the wests tigers , would play the Aus team of the 90s and 80s , full of all those legends , and they would put 50 on them .
Just simple things like scooping the ball ip with 1 hand , no look passes , Backline plays , today are so crisp , they are played virtually at the defensive line . I watched the raiders of the 90s and all their moves were so predictable , and they played a lot of early ball. Long , slow build up . Hugely exciting innovative for the time . But not in 2020. The sheer size and power and speed of the average player is noticeable . People say guys like Nofa are slow . If he played back then he’d be the starting winger for the Aus team.

Larry Corowa, Russell Gartner and David Michael would all have carved up Nofoaluma. No doubt quite a few others.

Mate , that’s absolute rubbish ! The difference between 80s players and the ones today is astronomical. If your saying same skill, same era . Then who knows , but the advancements in technology and training full time alone , would make the gulf insurmountable

You forget, these players were far better athletes than Nofoaluma. All tall, all lightning quick and knowing how to read defence. These are capabilities Nofoaluma doesn't have in his kit bag. Remember there were no DVDs to tell you what to do, no robotic wingers,

I don’t forget at all . The reality is if you went into any of these clubs and had a look at all the metrics that would quantify who was a superior athlete , the difference between any athletic 70s player and 1 from current a NRL squad wouldn’t even be close . From strength to speed to agility to vertical leap , lateral movement . The only thing that may be close is sprint speed over 100m . But.most clubs don’t even look to develop that. It’s about over 10m and 40m.

Yes there were no modern training methods. Many drank and smoked on game day or at half time. But, the players I mentioned were superior athletes. Irvine was one of the finest of all time. His name lives on, see if Nofoaluma's does in 30 years.

That’s got nothing to do with anything . It’s basic science and evolution of sport . But yea a fast player from the 50s and 60s is a superior athlete to today , because he ran faster than everyone.

The eye test shows everything . Like I said watch games from 70s 80s 90s 00s 10s to day and you will notice the evolution of the athlete .
Nofoaluma is a superior athlete to any previous generation , mainly because he’s from the current generation and benefits from that .
All the rest is noise, rubbish and nostalgia , not bearing The remotest resemblance of fact .

Irvine, Gasnier, Langlands, Boustead, Corowa, Etinghausen all backs who will be remembered as being outstanding. All superior athletes and footballers.. There is no shame in it, it is reality.

I don’t understand what’s so hard about the fact , that the greatest athletes of all time , if your put them in a time machine , and had them compete today , would get absolutely hammered . Not because they’re not amazing freaks of nature , but because the kids today eat ,sleep , training and sports science .
Eg. The 1500m swim . Kieran Perkins was so good nobody would get anywhere near his 14. 49 I think was the time . Then grant hacket comes along and swims a 14.35 or something like that.
It was unheard of . Now in today’s racing if your not swimming 14.35 as a base time , you’re probably not even making the final .
It is the evolution of sport . I shouldn’t have had to explain this .
It seems fairly obvious to me .

You can't pull Ken Irvine, Reg Gasnier etc. out of the past put them in 2020 as say they would get creamed.

In your hypothetical scenario (which we all know is extreme daydreaming), if you were realistic in your daydream you would have to have the past players train like present players or present players working in a real job and only training two nights a week.

NOW..... if you did that I'd be with rare exceptions going for the "Old Guys."

What do you think would happen if you put a T-Rex in Martin Place this arvo? I think evolution would get a shake up right there.

Mate your over thinking it . It’s a simple equation “due to training techniques and evolution of sports science , todays players are better athletes “.
That’s it . There’s no nuance . It’s a statement based in fact . There’s multiple articles , documentaries , studies proving this .
The athletes of today are far superior , and it’s not even close

Ok, I will concede better athletes - not necessarily better players.

 

[tig_prmz]

The more I see JAC, the more I want him at fullback. His skill level still hasn't been witnessed. The chip and chase was out of the blue. Also, no matter the situation, he finishes the try, or sets it up. He doesn't have a great passing game but he can deliver the last pass that we have craved.

 

[jrtiger]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.

 

[Madge]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.

Where is this?

 

[JC99]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.

Where is this?

Melbourne announced it. They also extended Brenko Lee and Cooper Johns for a year each

Here’s a link bit.ly/BacklineDepth

 

[851]

These so called ‘dirt hitups’ are a blight on rugby league. Wingers are being de-skilled. Give me a winger any day with the pace to be put into the clear and sprint 60 or. 70 metres to score. If you don’t have genuine pace you have no business being on the wing.

I agree. I speculated in an earlier post regarding Ken Irvine that as wingers have got bigger and stronger they have been sacrificing some pace in order to make the "dirty hit-ups".

Ken Irvine was only 5ft 8in and 78 kilos. He won a professional spring race over 100 yards in 9.3 seconds. Coincidentally Mike Cleary, who played for Souths in the 1960s, won a bronze in the Perth Commonwealth Games 100 yards timed at 9.3 seconds also.

It's hard to believe that with all the improvements in sports science and training methods over the past 60 years, no-one would get close to them today.

So I agree. The game is less of a spectacle with wingers doing the work of forwards, but most lacking the blistering pace of the old timers.

Dude ,that’s not true. It just seems it because they’re absolutely huge now. For the most part a lot of these guys are faster over shorter distances ,they just die really quickly .
I think the nostalgia fairy has sprinkled its dust on you . I watched games recently from the 80s , 90s , 00s early 10s and today .
And whilst the older games , had much more “action “, the general skill level was well below today’s game . It was extremely noticeable. From the way they pass , to offloading the ball with 2 hands , to the ball always hitting the deck , knock backs being actually called knock backs , so it lead to the call on the deck much more often .
The reality is , the wests tigers , would play the Aus team of the 90s and 80s , full of all those legends , and they would put 50 on them .
Just simple things like scooping the ball ip with 1 hand , no look passes , Backline plays , today are so crisp , they are played virtually at the defensive line . I watched the raiders of the 90s and all their moves were so predictable , and they played a lot of early ball. Long , slow build up . Hugely exciting innovative for the time . But not in 2020. The sheer size and power and speed of the average player is noticeable . People say guys like Nofa are slow . If he played back then he’d be the starting winger for the Aus team.

Larry Corowa, Russell Gartner and David Michael would all have carved up Nofoaluma. No doubt quite a few others.

How about David Grant?

Ross Conlan would have torn up Nofa ....Luke Covell as well

Lyou must be drinking...Ross Conlon couldn’t tear a paper bag (unless he was kicking for goal)

Drinking ...do I have something to celebrate ....as I said to Paws the names being dropped were ridiculous

Conlon was a great kicker. Good player as well.

Great kicker .....pretty good player

Nuffie who could kick goals

Mate that is very unfair he was a good player before his hip injury and was still above average after.We (Balmain) only had him after his injury the dogs got the best out of him

He was good at Wests, thats why the Dogs bought him

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.

Great news
hopefully mansour to dogs
and then it becomes us vs bunnies for JAC

 

[HowDugWT]

The more I see JAC, the more I want him at fullback. His skill level still hasn't been witnessed. The chip and chase was out of the blue. Also, no matter the situation, he finishes the try, or sets it up. He doesn't have a great passing game but he can deliver the last pass that we have craved.

I want to see JAC at fullback a lot but i'm even more excited for Doueihi in the halves. He was amazing against eels.

 

[Tiger5150]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.

Or Jennings could replace Vunivalu

 

[jadtiger]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.


Or Jennings could replace Vunivalu

You are correct,i wouldnt read anything into it yet

 

[jrtiger]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.


Or Jennings could replace Vunivalu

he could, but I think that Lumelume is their long term replacement for Vunivalu.

 

[TheDaBoss]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.


Or Jennings could replace Vunivalu

I think that lumelume fellas was there replacement for vulivalu

That's just a guess

 

[Deleted member 3518]

These so called ‘dirt hitups’ are a blight on rugby league. Wingers are being de-skilled. Give me a winger any day with the pace to be put into the clear and sprint 60 or. 70 metres to score. If you don’t have genuine pace you have no business being on the wing.

I agree. I speculated in an earlier post regarding Ken Irvine that as wingers have got bigger and stronger they have been sacrificing some pace in order to make the "dirty hit-ups".

Ken Irvine was only 5ft 8in and 78 kilos. He won a professional spring race over 100 yards in 9.3 seconds. Coincidentally Mike Cleary, who played for Souths in the 1960s, won a bronze in the Perth Commonwealth Games 100 yards timed at 9.3 seconds also.

It's hard to believe that with all the improvements in sports science and training methods over the past 60 years, no-one would get close to them today.

So I agree. The game is less of a spectacle with wingers doing the work of forwards, but most lacking the blistering pace of the old timers.

Dude ,that’s not true. It just seems it because they’re absolutely huge now. For the most part a lot of these guys are faster over shorter distances ,they just die really quickly .
I think the nostalgia fairy has sprinkled its dust on you . I watched games recently from the 80s , 90s , 00s early 10s and today .
And whilst the older games , had much more “action “, the general skill level was well below today’s game . It was extremely noticeable. From the way they pass , to offloading the ball with 2 hands , to the ball always hitting the deck , knock backs being actually called knock backs , so it lead to the call on the deck much more often .
The reality is , the wests tigers , would play the Aus team of the 90s and 80s , full of all those legends , and they would put 50 on them .
Just simple things like scooping the ball ip with 1 hand , no look passes , Backline plays , today are so crisp , they are played virtually at the defensive line . I watched the raiders of the 90s and all their moves were so predictable , and they played a lot of early ball. Long , slow build up . Hugely exciting innovative for the time . But not in 2020. The sheer size and power and speed of the average player is noticeable . People say guys like Nofa are slow . If he played back then he’d be the starting winger for the Aus team.

Larry Corowa, Russell Gartner and David Michael would all have carved up Nofoaluma. No doubt quite a few others.

Mate , that’s absolute rubbish ! The difference between 80s players and the ones today is astronomical. If your saying same skill, same era . Then who knows , but the advancements in technology and training full time alone , would make the gulf insurmountable

You forget, these players were far better athletes than Nofoaluma. All tall, all lightning quick and knowing how to read defence. These are capabilities Nofoaluma doesn't have in his kit bag. Remember there were no DVDs to tell you what to do, no robotic wingers,

I don’t forget at all . The reality is if you went into any of these clubs and had a look at all the metrics that would quantify who was a superior athlete , the difference between any athletic 70s player and 1 from current a NRL squad wouldn’t even be close . From strength to speed to agility to vertical leap , lateral movement . The only thing that may be close is sprint speed over 100m . But.most clubs don’t even look to develop that. It’s about over 10m and 40m.

Yes there were no modern training methods. Many drank and smoked on game day or at half time. But, the players I mentioned were superior athletes. Irvine was one of the finest of all time. His name lives on, see if Nofoaluma's does in 30 years.

That’s got nothing to do with anything . It’s basic science and evolution of sport . But yea a fast player from the 50s and 60s is a superior athlete to today , because he ran faster than everyone.

The eye test shows everything . Like I said watch games from 70s 80s 90s 00s 10s to day and you will notice the evolution of the athlete .
Nofoaluma is a superior athlete to any previous generation , mainly because he’s from the current generation and benefits from that .
All the rest is noise, rubbish and nostalgia , not bearing The remotest resemblance of fact .

Irvine, Gasnier, Langlands, Boustead, Corowa, Etinghausen all backs who will be remembered as being outstanding. All superior athletes and footballers.. There is no shame in it, it is reality.

I don’t understand what’s so hard about the fact , that the greatest athletes of all time , if your put them in a time machine , and had them compete today , would get absolutely hammered . Not because they’re not amazing freaks of nature , but because the kids today eat ,sleep , training and sports science .
Eg. The 1500m swim . Kieran Perkins was so good nobody would get anywhere near his 14. 49 I think was the time . Then grant hacket comes along and swims a 14.35 or something like that.
It was unheard of . Now in today’s racing if your not swimming 14.35 as a base time , you’re probably not even making the final .
It is the evolution of sport . I shouldn’t have had to explain this .
It seems fairly obvious to me .

You can't pull Ken Irvine, Reg Gasnier etc. out of the past put them in 2020 as say they would get creamed.

In your hypothetical scenario (which we all know is extreme daydreaming), if you were realistic in your daydream you would have to have the past players train like present players or present players working in a real job and only training two nights a week.

NOW..... if you did that I'd be with rare exceptions going for the "Old Guys."

What do you think would happen if you put a T-Rex in Martin Place this arvo? I think evolution would get a shake up right there.

Mate your over thinking it . It’s a simple equation “due to training techniques and evolution of sports science , todays players are better athletes “.
That’s it . There’s no nuance . It’s a statement based in fact . There’s multiple articles , documentaries , studies proving this .
The athletes of today are far superior , and it’s not even close

Ok, I will concede better athletes - not necessarily better players.

Yep agree .

 

[fibrodreaming]

Hang on , back up. You said Irvine was a superior athlete .

No, you back up Strongee. I don’t appreciate being verballed. Nowhere did I say that Irvine was a “superior athlete”. I challenge you to go back over my posts and show me where I said that.

I responded to a post about JAC and Paps speed over 100 meters. I said:

“I hate to sound like the old codger nursing his beer in the corner growling: “you call that fast, why back in my day…”. But I will. The great Ken Irvine, who I had the pleasure of watching a number of times, was timed in a professional sprint over 100 yards at 9.3 seconds.”

I then went on to conclude:

“It’s curious that while players have grown bigger and stronger, they don’t appear to have got any faster. Perhaps the process of bulking up has reduced their speed.”

My point I’m making , before everyone gets upset that I’m bagging thier favourite player , is that it’s all relative . Elite is only relative to the era that person played in.

I’m not upset because you’r bagging my favourite player and I do agree elite is relative to the time in which the player played. It was a different game in those days. I rate Irvine the best winger I’ve seen because he dominated footy in the 60s like no other winger has done since. He wasn’t just express, he was the complete footballer.

But the statement was that Irvine was a superior athlete to today .

Not by me it wasn't. Don’t put words in my mouth. I resent being set up as a straw man. You are attacking arguments that I never made.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Hang on , back up. You said Irvine was a superior athlete .

No, you back up Strongee. I don’t appreciate being verballed. Nowhere did I say that Irvine was a “superior athlete”. I challenge you to go back over my posts and show me where I said that.

I responded to a post about JAC and Paps speed over 100 meters. I said:

“I hate to sound like the old codger nursing his beer in the corner growling: “you call that fast, why back in my day…”. But I will. The great Ken Irvine, who I had the pleasure of watching a number of times, was timed in a professional sprint over 100 yards at 9.3 seconds.”

I then went on to conclude:

“It’s curious that while players have grown bigger and stronger, they don’t appear to have got any faster. Perhaps the process of bulking up has reduced their speed.”

My point I’m making , before everyone gets upset that I’m bagging thier favourite player , is that it’s all relative . Elite is only relative to the era that person played in.

I’m not upset because you’r bagging my favourite player and I do agree elite is relative to the time in which the player played. It was a different game in those days. I rate Irvine the best winger I’ve seen because he dominated footy in the 60s like no other winger has done since. He wasn’t just express, he was the complete footballer.

But the statement was that Irvine was a superior athlete to today .

Not by me it wasn't. Don’t put words in my mouth. I resent being set up as a straw man. You are attacking arguments that I never made.

For starters , no one verballed you , we disagreed . And I laid out my point of view . And you have laid out yours. Your right about the athlete comment , someone else said that in the debate , but you did say you think the dirty hit up thing has made it less of a spectacle , which is what I disagreed with , originally , as being fast doesn’t take away from the spectacle , considering the amazing things players can do nowadays .
I respect your opinion , I just don’t agree . And that’s fine .
I’ve made my point . The game is bigger , stronger , faster , and is basically massive units colliding now . And I agree that some of the old skills have been lost to time . I just think they’ve been replaced by other skills . Like jumping in the air from 5 metres out , getting hammered over the touchline for your ball carrying arm to “Mr Fantastic” the ball inside the corner post . It’s insane that that’s a drill nowadays. It’s taught in skills sessions .

My main point was about nostalgia , and the way we misremember things . Like remembering movies we loved as a kid , only to find out that movie was something else and we were actually remembering a scene from another movie .
We all get sprinkled with the nostalgia fairies , on heaps of things.
Like I said , I recently watched 4 games in a row from 4 different eras , and noticed just how much higher the standard was through the years. Was it more entertaining . No , no it wasn’t . But was it of a much higher standard . Yep . The things these guys do , in today’s m game , at the speeds they move , and the lack of errors , even , so much as the ball hitting the deck , is crazy .

 

[AJ1]

Can the mods create a grumpy old men discussion thread and move the above posts there so this thread can be a JAC discussion?

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Can the mods create a grumpy old men discussion thread and move the above posts there so this thread can be a JAC discussion?

Yep my bad . Delete away

 

[fibrodreaming]

Can the mods create a grumpy old men discussion thread and move the above posts there so this thread can be a JAC discussion?

315 pages of dribble, and you want more ?

Surely Strongee and my debate is much more interesting !

 

[AL The Tiger]

https://twitter.com/VossySEN/status/1323794800336805888

Have a listen to what Lee Hagipantelis has to say about the JAC deal

 

[weststigerman]

George Jennings to Melbourne was made official 10 minutes ago. might see JAC released for 2021 after the origin period.


Or Jennings could replace Vunivalu

You are correct,i wouldnt read anything into it yet

They had another Fijian winger coming through that looked pretty good. I thought he was replacing Vunivalu.