JAC

[BAGNF05]

@Earl - with paragraphs boys sorry !

I don't disagree with what you are saying about players wanting to go to a club that is winning or a glamour club BUT our opinions differ on the level of quality of our business department -

I've dealt with these guys multiple times, I know from first hand experience the poor judgements they have made and despite my own experiences lets look at what Justin Pascoe has presided over - we lost 3 of the biggest stars we had - all in one go - we basically got pilfered by 3 clubs in one hit -

How smart was it to have them all come off contract at the same time? We actually could've kept them if the club had a SPINE and sacked Taylor that offseason and brought in Cleary earlier but they wanted to give Taylor a shot after her did the dirty work and got rid of Robbie for them. They knew the 4 big names weren't signing with Taylor there- they kept delaying us.

Even the Football Director told me - and this is what he said "It woudn't of mattered if Taylor had won the first 6 games of the season, they weren't going to sign with him" - So i said "Well why the hell didn't you bring in Ivan Cleary earlier" - and he and Justin just looked dumbfounded and then tried to back track.

We then sign Ivan Cleary and get outsmarted by Penrith bc we were too arrogant in bringing Nathan Cleary to our club. I had at least three conversations with Justin and that guy from the Dogs who was our Director of Football - both of them telling me that Nathan was coming to us 100%!. In the history of the game has any club lost their 3 biggest stars to 3 different clubs in on hit and had a coach signed to another club before his tenure has ended?

On top of that we get absolutely played by the Bulldogs by taking Josh Reynolds and Mbye for "overs" when they had salary cap issues. We get rolled by Parra for letting Matts go and then we cant even get Stefano in return when we want him, its comical.

We sign Jason Taylor - who got punched by his own player - and then watch him sign that hooker from Manly whilst Robbie is still on the books to try and get him to move knowing what a stubborn person he is. On top of that we have let go Paps, Ado Carr, Tapau, the 3 stars mentioned, Matts, Nathan Brown, etc .......

Marina Go was absolutely useless. I dealt with her on several occasions. Lovely woman and person but no idea - after we lost to the Bulldogs at ANZ - I was in the Chairmans lounge with her and she just ran off on me and a couple of other sponsors saying how she "Had to get down to the dressing room and see the boys" - but said it like she was laughing and smiling like a FAN, not a chairwoman.


Penrith got rid of Pascoe don't forget. I'm sorry but our admin is woeful. I will give them credit for getting Madge and completing the COE (which I think was due in part to getting Barrel O'Farrel as Chair ), but everything else has been bloody diabolical.

Are we even sure Politis hasn’t planted Hartigan to kill WT for good? Seriously.

 

[gallagher]

I'm fine with how this turned out.

It is confirmed JAC signed a HoA with us to join if Storm released him. It means we had the best and most palatable offer at the time. It means we can attract talent.

Whether or not he's decided to backflip and stay in Melbourne (because they'd upped his deal, or otherwise), or whether he's now treading water waiting for a "better" offer for 2022 is irrelevant in the context of 2021.

For 2021, Tigers put themselves in a position to be the only club that can secure JAC should he obtain a release, then Melbourne have tried to hardball us to make that release. We have set our terms and not budged. We have covered ourselves legally to block out other clubs whilst this current employer deliberated.

If JAC is truly biding his time to join another club in 2022, we'll find out soon enough and then it will show his rationale to request a release on family grounds is hogwash, because he could have just seen out his Melbourne contract in the first place, without the whole malarkey about family concerns. Questionable whether you want a player like that in your side, if he's going to pull Mitch-Moses style sympathy cards to pull out of contracts.

I like that Tigers have refused to deal with Melbourne on their terms. I don't want to return to the old Ivan and pre-Ivan era where we desperately entered into risky deals, many of which have backfired.

E.g. imagine if we release Tommy Talau and he becomes an Origin-level centre, imagine the furore on here.

Consider also that Melbourne were reportedly happy to receive Talau or Nofo as trades for JAC's release. The premiers were willing to take them in trade.

It's a new way of doing deals for Tigers - make a competitive offer, wait a little while, then close the issue. Even with Latrell, it was splashed all around the media but the actual fact of it all is we made a strong offer, we met with Latrell and realised he wasn't serious about joining, and we withdrew our offer.

It might mean we missed out on Latrell and JAC, but in that same period we signed Luciano, Kepoa, Tamou, Stefano, Blore, Kelma Tuilagi... looks now like we have young Daine Laurie too. That's smart cap management - juniors-focused, buying low, up-skilling the player and getting better value. No Packers in that lot, no Josh Reynolds or Moses Mbyes.

Cheers Justin, makes us feel better ??‍♂️

LOL, every failure by the club is somehow a positive with this guy. he must be an employee.

 

[Aesopian]


More info from ChamAss

 

[bathursttiger1]

@Earl

I don't disagree with what you are saying about players wanting to go to a club that is winning or a glamour club BUT our opinions differ on the level of quality of our business department - I've dealt with these guys multiple times, I know from first hand experience the poor judgements they have made and despite my own experiences lets look at what Justin Pascoe has presided over - we lost 3 of the biggest stars we had - all in one go - we basically got pilfered by 3 clubs in one hit - How smart was it to have them all come off contract at the same time? We actually could've kept them if the club had a SPINE and sacked Taylor that offseason and brought in Cleary earlier but they wanted to give Taylor a shot after her did the dirty work and got rid of Robbie for them. They knew the 4 big names weren't signing with Taylor there- they kept delaying us. Even the Football Director told me - and this is what he said "It woudn't of mattered if Taylor had won the first 6 games of the season, they weren't going to sign with him" - So i said "Well why the hell didn't you bring in Ivan Cleary earlier" - and he and Justin just looked dumbfounded and then tried to back track. We then sign Ivan Cleary and get outsmarted by Penrith bc we were too arrogant in bringing Nathan Cleary to our club. I had at least three conversations with Justin and that guy from the Dogs who was our Director of Football - both of them telling me that Nathan was coming to us 100%!. In the history of the game has any club lost their 3 biggest stars to 3 different clubs in on hit and had a coach signed to another club before his tenure has ended? On top of that we get absolutely played by the Bulldogs by taking Josh Reynolds and Mbye for "overs" when they had salary cap issues. We get rolled by Parra for letting Matts go and then we cant even get Stefano in return when we want him, its comical. We sign Jason Taylor - who got punched by his own player - and then watch him sign that hooker from Manly whilst Robbie is still on the books to try and get him to move knowing what a stubborn person he is. On top of that we have let go Paps, Ado Carr, Tapau, the 3 stars mentioned, Matts, Nathan Brown, etc ....... Marina Go was absolutely useless. I dealt with her on several occasions. Lovely woman and person but no idea - after we lost to the Bulldogs at ANZ - I was in the Chairmans lounge with her and she just ran off on me and a couple of other sponsors saying how she "Had to get down to the dressing room and see the boys" - but said it like she was laughing and smiling like a FAN, not a chairwoman. Penrith got rid of Pascoe don't forget. I'm sorry but our admin is woeful. I will give them credit for getting Madge and completing the COE (which I think was due in part to getting Barrel O'Farrel as Chair ), but everything else has been bloody diabolical.

Paragraphs please !

Not as bad a not hitting the space bar between words.
Itmakesithardtoreadwithoutaspace.

 

[Guest]

I'm bemused by the crucifixion of management over this.

It ignores the fact JAC is contracted to Melbourne for 2021 and we were always at the mercy of them offering a release. All the machinations and media reports are pure speculation.

I doubt anyone here (perhaps POM excepted) has any idea whether we offered players, which players, rejected approaches or matched offers.

Making claims that we wouldn't trade player X, or somehow mishandled the contractual side of things is like believing a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon press conference,

Well said. JAC's signing was always contingent on release. He hasn't secured that release so we move on. That peanut Dan Andrews didn't panic as much as some on here.

 

[voice_of_reason]

Got me scratching my head, why did the Storm refuse him a release, than up his contract. This whole thing has been put together by the Storm and JAC management to get around theTigers deal. Total sugar coat the clubs media release.

They refused him a release because they need quality wingers. Vunivalu is gone and losing JAC would compound the issue. It may be they've been waiting for C. Smith to make a retirement decision to see what additional cash they'd have available.

I think the narrative they've done this just to somehow 'screw' the tigers is a bit conspiratorial.

Based on well known fact, I'd suggest:
1) they had an existing contract they were entitled to enforce,
2) they needed wingers,
3) Smith retiring frees up a pile of cash
4) JAC would be pleased to get a significant pay rise
5) He probably does like the Tigers, but the dominos fell away from us.

 

[jirskyr]

I'm fine with how this turned out.

It is confirmed JAC signed a HoA with us to join if Storm released him. It means we had the best and most palatable offer at the time. It means we can attract talent.

Whether or not he's decided to backflip and stay in Melbourne (because they'd upped his deal, or otherwise), or whether he's now treading water waiting for a "better" offer for 2022 is irrelevant in the context of 2021.

For 2021, Tigers put themselves in a position to be the only club that can secure JAC should he obtain a release, then Melbourne have tried to hardball us to make that release. We have set our terms and not budged. We have covered ourselves legally to block out other clubs whilst this current employer deliberated.

If JAC is truly biding his time to join another club in 2022, we'll find out soon enough and then it will show his rationale to request a release on family grounds is hogwash, because he could have just seen out his Melbourne contract in the first place, without the whole malarkey about family concerns. Questionable whether you want a player like that in your side, if he's going to pull Mitch-Moses style sympathy cards to pull out of contracts.

I like that Tigers have refused to deal with Melbourne on their terms. I don't want to return to the old Ivan and pre-Ivan era where we desperately entered into risky deals, many of which have backfired.

E.g. imagine if we release Tommy Talau and he becomes an Origin-level centre, imagine the furore on here.

Consider also that Melbourne were reportedly happy to receive Talau or Nofo as trades for JAC's release. The premiers were willing to take them in trade.

It's a new way of doing deals for Tigers - make a competitive offer, wait a little while, then close the issue. Even with Latrell, it was splashed all around the media but the actual fact of it all is we made a strong offer, we met with Latrell and realised he wasn't serious about joining, and we withdrew our offer.

It might mean we missed out on Latrell and JAC, but in that same period we signed Luciano, Kepoa, Tamou, Stefano, Blore, Kelma Tuilagi... looks now like we have young Daine Laurie too. That's smart cap management - juniors-focused, buying low, up-skilling the player and getting better value. No Packers in that lot, no Josh Reynolds or Moses Mbyes.

Cheers Justin, makes us feel better ??‍♂️

LOL, every failure by the club is somehow a positive with this guy. he must be an employee.

Yeah I am Adam Hartigan

 

[OzLuke]


More info from ChamAss

great perspective....manager squeezing the bucks like good managers do

 

[OzLuke]

Got me scratching my head, why did the Storm refuse him a release, than up his contract. This whole thing has been put together by the Storm and JAC management to get around theTigers deal. Total sugar coat the clubs media release.

They refused him a release because they need quality wingers. Vunivalu is gone and losing JAC would compound the issue. It may be they've been waiting for C. Smith to make a retirement decision to see what additional cash they'd have available.

I think the narrative they've done this just to somehow 'screw' the tigers is a bit conspiratorial.

Based on well known fact, I'd suggest:
1) they had an existing contract they were entitled to enforce,
2) they needed wingers,
3) Smith retiring frees up a pile of cash
4) JAC would be pleased to get a significant pay rise
5) He probably does like the Tigers, but the dominos fell away from us.

why would the storm be worried about us in all fairness??? they are low on wingers and considering they landed reimis smith and george jennings sums up the available quality out there

 

[yoyoyoyo]

@BAGNF05

It wouldn't surprise me. I love the club as much as everyone else but they just don't care like we do. I sat with Justin during a game, whilst he had a beer and was lunging back with Marina, I think at the Sharks game at Shark Park, and it was raining.

And me and my old man (who used to play for Balmain reserves back. in the day) stayed outside in the rain and were gutted when we lost. These guys honestly couldnt care. Justin is from Melbourne, he grew up on AFL.

When you have someone like Nick Politis in the club who is a fan but who also has power it makes a huge difference. Look at what Gould did to Penrith. We don't have anyone that bleeds the club, with enough smarts to outplay these other blokes at the moment.

I mean look at it - WE HAVE ONE OF THE RICHEST MEN IN THE COUNTRY AS A DIE HARD FAN - and we can't get a cent off him. Why? Because they don't know how to deal with hard businessmen like Harry. Sometimes you have to kiss the ring to get what you want and I just think Harry thinks our admin is a bunch of losers bc they don't have any strength.

 

[mike]

Mansour would be a spectacular failure.

JAC is a dog.

Pascoe and co are useless. The deal was there to be done, we stalled and stalled and now miss out. Pathetic and embarassing.

Big pressure on Talau to play origin next year

You sure it wasn’t JAC that stalled and stalled?

Yes. This is our fault.

Storm had publicly said they would release JAC after a suitable player was acquired. We failed to swap two vastly inferior players for one of the best players in the game. Most clubs would have waited for a while to try and make a deal without giving up anything, but there comes a time when a deal must be made. Other clubs would have pulled the trigger. We didn't.

Talau is a promising junior. Who's had injury issues. How many players like that have we had that went on to play origin? Even swapping Nof for jac is a huge upgrade. We've been moaning Nofs awful defence for years. He's just above average. And he's identical to Mansour. Which is why we most cetainly do not need or want him.

I think the Storm were never going to release him. The term like for like comes to mind. Who do we have that is an Test and SOO player.

It is very widely reported that they were after Nof or Talau. Was i in the room when said negitioations took place? No. Would i swap either of those players for jac, yes. I would try and not lose any assets but ultimately i would swap these guys when the opportunity arose.

Like you said you weren't in the room

Maybe just maybe we did speak to Nofo and Talau about them going to Melb and they said no

That would be the end of it

You can't make them leave

And even if their contracts were up and if we didn't re sign them and storm chased them the storm might still lose out to another club because they just might want to stay in Syd

Most players would jump at the chance to play for the storm. They are extremely professional and the current champs. What player doesn't want to compete in grand finals?

We're so far behind them it's not funny.

Have you surveyed most players? You know how they think and what is important to them do you?

 

[voice_of_reason]

why would the storm be worried about us in all fairness??? they are low on wingers and considering they landed reimis smith and george jennings sums up the available quality out there

They're not, but some on here seem to think there's a conspiracy by Storm and JAC to keep him away from the Tigers.

I agree with your summation of R. Smith and G. Jennings, shows there's a shortage of quality wingers and probably why we're looking to upgrade Nofo.

 

[Cairnstigers]

off to the bunnies he goes in 2022

I wonder what odds I would get for that at the TAB
It would be the easiest money I ever made

 

[hank37w]

I hope we don’t get desperate and take on Mansour, he drops the ball too often.

If we take on Mansour, I think we're the ones dropping the ball.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Mansour would be a spectacular failure.

JAC is a dog.

Pascoe and co are useless. The deal was there to be done, we stalled and stalled and now miss out. Pathetic and embarassing.

Big pressure on Talau to play origin next year

You sure it wasn’t JAC that stalled and stalled?

Yes. This is our fault.

Storm had publicly said they would release JAC after a suitable player was acquired. We failed to swap two vastly inferior players for one of the best players in the game. Most clubs would have waited for a while to try and make a deal without giving up anything, but there comes a time when a deal must be made. Other clubs would have pulled the trigger. We didn't.

Talau is a promising junior. Who's had injury issues. How many players like that have we had that went on to play origin? Even swapping Nof for jac is a huge upgrade. We've been moaning Nofs awful defence for years. He's just above average. And he's identical to Mansour. Which is why we most cetainly do not need or want him.

I think the Storm were never going to release him. The term like for like comes to mind. Who do we have that is an Test and SOO player.

It is very widely reported that they were after Nof or Talau. Was i in the room when said negitioations took place? No. Would i swap either of those players for jac, yes. I would try and not lose any assets but ultimately i would swap these guys when the opportunity arose.

spot on a swap should have been made Nofo or talau as a club we are stupid

 

[CarltonDry]

@Earl - with paragraphs boys sorry !

I don't disagree with what you are saying about players wanting to go to a club that is winning or a glamour club BUT our opinions differ on the level of quality of our business department -

I've dealt with these guys multiple times, I know from first hand experience the poor judgements they have made and despite my own experiences lets look at what Justin Pascoe has presided over - we lost 3 of the biggest stars we had - all in one go - we basically got pilfered by 3 clubs in one hit -

How smart was it to have them all come off contract at the same time? We actually could've kept them if the club had a SPINE and sacked Taylor that offseason and brought in Cleary earlier but they wanted to give Taylor a shot after her did the dirty work and got rid of Robbie for them. They knew the 4 big names weren't signing with Taylor there- they kept delaying us.

Even the Football Director told me - and this is what he said "It woudn't of mattered if Taylor had won the first 6 games of the season, they weren't going to sign with him" - So i said "Well why the hell didn't you bring in Ivan Cleary earlier" - and he and Justin just looked dumbfounded and then tried to back track.

We then sign Ivan Cleary and get outsmarted by Penrith bc we were too arrogant in bringing Nathan Cleary to our club. I had at least three conversations with Justin and that guy from the Dogs who was our Director of Football - both of them telling me that Nathan was coming to us 100%!. In the history of the game has any club lost their 3 biggest stars to 3 different clubs in on hit and had a coach signed to another club before his tenure has ended?

On top of that we get absolutely played by the Bulldogs by taking Josh Reynolds and Mbye for "overs" when they had salary cap issues. We get rolled by Parra for letting Matts go and then we cant even get Stefano in return when we want him, its comical.

We sign Jason Taylor - who got punched by his own player - and then watch him sign that hooker from Manly whilst Robbie is still on the books to try and get him to move knowing what a stubborn person he is. On top of that we have let go Paps, Ado Carr, Tapau, the 3 stars mentioned, Matts, Nathan Brown, etc .......

Marina Go was absolutely useless. I dealt with her on several occasions. Lovely woman and person but no idea - after we lost to the Bulldogs at ANZ - I was in the Chairmans lounge with her and she just ran off on me and a couple of other sponsors saying how she "Had to get down to the dressing room and see the boys" - but said it like she was laughing and smiling like a FAN, not a chairwoman.


Penrith got rid of Pascoe don't forget. I'm sorry but our admin is woeful. I will give them credit for getting Madge and completing the COE (which I think was due in part to getting Barrel O'Farrel as Chair ), but everything else has been bloody diabolical.

Are we even sure Politis hasn’t planted Hartigan to kill WT for good? Seriously.

I think you're on to something ?

 

[Aubanon]

They brought in Farah to negotiations.......
Bloody hell Pascoe has a hard one for him

Not true - Farah wasn't involved in any conversation/meetings

 

[Bones]

Mansour would be a spectacular failure.

JAC is a dog.

Pascoe and co are useless. The deal was there to be done, we stalled and stalled and now miss out. Pathetic and embarassing.

Big pressure on Talau to play origin next year

You sure it wasn’t JAC that stalled and stalled?

Yes. This is our fault.

Storm had publicly said they would release JAC after a suitable player was acquired. We failed to swap two vastly inferior players for one of the best players in the game. Most clubs would have waited for a while to try and make a deal without giving up anything, but there comes a time when a deal must be made. Other clubs would have pulled the trigger. We didn't.

Talau is a promising junior. Who's had injury issues. How many players like that have we had that went on to play origin? Even swapping Nof for jac is a huge upgrade. We've been moaning Nofs awful defence for years. He's just above average. And he's identical to Mansour. Which is why we most cetainly do not need or want him.

I think the Storm were never going to release him. The term like for like comes to mind. Who do we have that is an Test and SOO player.

It is very widely reported that they were after Nof or Talau. Was i in the room when said negitioations took place? No. Would i swap either of those players for jac, yes. I would try and not lose any assets but ultimately i would swap these guys when the opportunity arose.

spot on a swap should have been made Nofo or talau as a club we are stupid

And if neither wanted to go do you just shackle them to the landing gear of the next flight out?

 

[Cairnstigers]

Flipside and saga continues!

Meeting actually went well. Tartak confirms to WT that they intend to sign but Storm won’t budge on a decent player swap.

Tigers stick to their guns and draft a plan to make Melbourne look heartless...

Tigers release a press statement pointing the blame completely at Melbourne for refusing to let JAC leave on compassionate grounds. Everyone knows it was “family reasons”....

Melbourne don’t want to look like tools and release Addo-Carr for ‘21....

Fastest man in league races into Concord....

Or am I totally tripping balls here?

What ever your smoking, you better pass it around
We all need some after this latest chase ends with nothing
389 pages of hope just went up in smoke

 

[tiger_one]

There are lessons, tragedies and complications beyond comprehension experienced by those who follow our team.