JAC

[BAGNF05]

So we are fine that managers don't wanna talk to us but they'll talk to other clubs

Something wrong here

I’ve been happy with Lee sticking up for the club in the media lately despite a few gaffs, next I think we need to do some work on our relationship with player managers. Feels like they just see us as a vehicle to drive up offers elsewhere.


They come to WT first for what they think is a favourable valuation. I think if we really want them then we should tell them to come see us last. If we aren’t interested also come see us last.

I think the trick is really identifying what we actually need and being prepared to pay a premium for that need. If an aggressive consistent back rower with great defensive skills was available right now and we had cap space, it doesn’t matter whether we bid first or last, it’s about winning the bid.

The flip side of that is not going hard after every shiny object on the market.

 

[TIGERPOWER]

Hey JAC , just got a feeling you might not be the smartest guy with numbers . I know your paying Mario the manager big money to get you a fat contract. But I just want to tell you that tigers offer of $650k over 4 years is $2.6m. Your amazing bulldogs offer that is being splashed everywhere is for $2m. Can you ask Mario your amazing manager why he is costing you $600k to play for the team that came second last?

 

[twentyforty]

So we are fine that managers don't wanna talk to us but they'll talk to other clubs

Something wrong here

I’ve been happy with Lee sticking up for the club in the media lately despite a few gaffs, next I think we need to do some work on our relationship with player managers. Feels like they just see us as a vehicle to drive up offers elsewhere.


They come to WT first for what they think is a favourable valuation. I think if we really want them then we should tell them to come see us last. If we aren’t interested also come see us last.

I think the trick is really identifying what we actually need and being prepared to pay a premium for that need. If an aggressive consistent back rower with great defensive skills was available right now and we had cap space, it doesn’t matter whether we bid first or last, it’s about winning the bid.

The flip side of that is not going hard after every shiny object on the market.

Absolutely!
That’s the starting point imo, it’s essential to know what a premiership winning team looks like before starting the search, with a player profile of each position with existing or potential skill sets matching the job. This is what they do.
I agree, the hardest part is profiling because it’s not an exact science. Success hinges on the head coaches gut feeling and his ability to form a real team in the true sense.
Madge has a profile of an outside back and as luck would have it one starts looking for a new club. Do you think it’s a good idea to throw our cards on the table before the game starts?
I would rather our pitch be the best and most memorable. It’s not necessarily the highest bid which wins, it’s often the one which satisfactorily handles the objections best. We should be allowing those objections to be discovered at another club. Did we learn nothing from the LM attempt. I think Rusty played us off the break and closed on lifestyle needs.

 

[earl]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

 

[mikey]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

We do seem to have picked up our game in this area. Getting the right people to do the job is important; as is not buying instant results. Painful given the drought we have experienced but once we establish a strong playing core we will get success and that will make us more attractive.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

So we are fine that managers don't wanna talk to us but they'll talk to other clubs

Something wrong here

Getting rid of a moron or two in our roster might improve our rep. But really we're getting really good young talent at the Club. We have to start playing them.

 

[twentyforty]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

 

[earl]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.

 

[twentyforty]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.

Sorry mate, I think you’re missing the point. All I’m saying is that we’ve followed the same process twice and each time we got the same negative result, so I’m suggesting that we simply change what we’re doing in order to increase our strike rate and at the same time stop players coming to us for a favourable valuation to kickstart their negotiations with their more preferred clubs.
I know Madge, Hartigan, Lee and Justin are smart enough to know this already. I just put it out there for discussion.
If you think it’s a good idea to not have a desired outcome.. as you state “you don’t focus on the outcome “ and “you can’t control the outcome.” Then I have to ask, what’s the point?

 

[momo_amp_medo]

I know that It’s great to be clever in hindsight but in my opinion WT should have seen the writing on the wall with JAC and his management when they would only settle on signing heads of agreement which was dependent on his release in 2021.
From that point they held all the high ground and had many options for a way out of the contract.
So I’m afraid that was a poor choice on our part.
Lesson to be learnt by our recruitment team ..... we should have bypassed 2021 and insisted that they commit and sign for 2022 onwards. Then again it could be that WT were less interested in that outcome .... so I suppose, that plays either way.

 

[happy_tiger]

I imagine our offer was pulled the minute the meeting went pear shaped Thursday week ago ....mad if we didn't

 

[earl]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.


Sorry mate, I think you’re missing the point. All I’m saying is that we’ve followed the same process twice and each time we got the same negative result, so I’m suggesting that we simply change what we’re doing in order to increase our strike rate and at the same time stop players coming to us for a favourable valuation to kickstart their negotiations with their more preferred clubs.
I know Madge, Hartigan, Lee and Justin are smart enough to know this already. I just put it out there for discussion.
If you think it’s a good idea to not have a desired outcome.. as you state “you don’t focus on the outcome “ and “you can’t control the outcome.” Then I have to ask, what’s the point?

I don't think I'm missing the point. You are stating that the process needs to change because we haven't signed Latrell and JAC. I don't believe the process failed at all. We put together good contracts. JAC even signed one contract. These guys weren't negotiating in good faith and so we stopped negotiating. That is how you handle a negotiation.

We agree that it appears the club are well managed and anyone thinking they can provide simplistic management speak to improve the situation are probably on the wrong track.

When you state what is the point if not the outcome. The point is to consistently act professionally and compete to the best of your ability and more often than not I think you will come out ahead. You don't control the outcome. You do control your actions.

 

[earl]

I know that It’s great to be clever in hindsight but in my opinion WT should have seen the writing on the wall with JAC and his management when they would only settle on signing heads of agreement which was dependent on his release in 2021.

We should have got him to sign 2 contacts but I bet he was never going to do that. This was probably more about getting a nice pay rise and then trying to cash in next year.

The problem is this is with hindsight. It's a good point though.

 

[earl]

I imagine our offer was pulled the minute the meeting went pear shaped Thursday week ago ....mad if we didn't

Exactly. Don't play the game by their rules.

 

[Geo]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.

Or you could be the Rorters and sign Cronk Tedesco Crighton Kesey Morris x 2 Heargraves an co and take a punt

 

[happy_tiger]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.


Sorry mate, I think you’re missing the point. All I’m saying is that we’ve followed the same process twice and each time we got the same negative result, so I’m suggesting that we simply change what we’re doing in order to increase our strike rate and at the same time stop players coming to us for a favourable valuation to kickstart their negotiations with their more preferred clubs.
I know Madge, Hartigan, Lee and Justin are smart enough to know this already. I just put it out there for discussion.
If you think it’s a good idea to not have a desired outcome.. as you state “you don’t focus on the outcome “ and “you can’t control the outcome.” Then I have to ask, what’s the point?

I don't think I'm missing the point. You are stating that the process needs to change because we haven't signed Latrell and JAC. I don't believe the process failed at all. We put together good contracts. JAC even signed one contract. These guys weren't negotiating in good faith and so we stopped negotiating. That is how you handle a negotiation.

We agree that it appears the club are well managed and anyone thinking they can provide simplistic management speak to improve the situation are probably on the wrong track.

When you state what is the point if not the outcome. The point is to consistently act professionally and compete to the best of your ability and more often than not I think you will come out ahead. You don't control the outcome. You do control your actions.

Your last sentence .....so if no one signs with us it's not the club's fault ..it's the players not signing fault ..so in 5 years time we blame 80% of the players in the comp ...not our standards ....

 

[twentyforty]

You are stating that the process needs to change because we haven’t signed Latrell and JAC.

“You are stating that the process needs to change because we haven’t signed Latrell and JAC.”
Thank you!
Truth is we haven’t signed a lot of players, but they are the two standouts because they were both offered high priced contracts.
We apparently offered LM $1m and he signed for $600.
We apparently offered JAC $675 to play FB and he will likely sign with Bunnies as a wing for $500k.
How many other offers have those two managed to solicit? One other to my knowledge?

You talk of being professional. Well what does that actually mean? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting different outcomes because we’re to believe that the outcome is of secondary importance and we can’t influence the outcome anyway.?

I’m just saying, if we had spent the time doing a more thorough discovery interview we would have known making an offer is a waste of time in some cases. In LMs case apparently no other club he visited made an offer.
I realise Madge knows this because he stated recently ‘we don’t want to try to sign anyone who doesn’t want to be here’ or words to that affect. I have tremendous faith in Madge’s ability and heaps of confidence in his strong desire to win. I want him long term and I want to see our board put no more pressure on him than he puts on himself. Sure, offer him incentives but please, no threats!

I’m not drawing conclusions. I’ve considered other possibilities eg, quid pro quo for particular agents to feed reporters etc. not a probability based on the negative outcome ergo I’m just suggesting we be more discerning when handing out an offer. And the best way to do that imo is to not be the first. Other clubs are also learning from our attempts to sign some players.

 

[twentyforty]

I know that It’s great to be clever in hindsight but in my opinion WT should have seen the writing on the wall with JAC and his management when they would only settle on signing heads of agreement which was dependent on his release in 2021.
From that point they held all the high ground and had many options for a way out of the contract.
So I’m afraid that was a poor choice on our part.
Lesson to be learnt by our recruitment team ..... we should have bypassed 2021 and insisted that they commit and sign for 2022 onwards. Then again it could be that WT were less interested in that outcome .... so I suppose, that plays either way.

Momo, as you know you’re only clever in hindsight if you learn from the experience mate.
In my opinion presenting a HOA for signatures is what happens when player says he wants to be at WT and no other club. Can’t stop telling us how much love he has for the club. We are all afraid to question it so we skip asking and then we’ve gone too far after he refuses to sign a contract. So we produce the HOA to get some kind of commitment.?

 

[earl]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.

Or you could be the Rorters and sign Cronk Tedesco Crighton Kesey Morris x 2 Heargraves an co and take a punt

Unfortunately we don't support that team.

 

[earl]

It's about putting good contract offers together for the right players and being professional. We are doing that now. We just got to keep doing it.

I am sure they use analytics and they are well aware of our current situation and where we are heading.

Earl, it’s also about evolving following analysis.
A quick internal appraisal will tell you if you should be staying with the same process given it has previously failed to produce the required outcome.
A contract doesn’t walk and talk all by itself.

You don't focus on the outcome. You can't control the outcome. Of course you have to look at yourself and look at what you are doing and look to improve. This is professional sport and it's a tough thing to get right let alone get success.

Signing marquee players doesn't necessarily lead to success. If your goal is to sign a marquee player I am sure we can do that at the expense of long term success. If your goal is to develop a winning team over 3-5 + years then getting that marquee talent may not be critical.

We are signing players and I think we are doing pretty well. I don't think we've done well this off season but it's not over yet and there haven't been a lot of opportunities. We also haven't committed any massive blunders so far which is really important.

Hopefully we can jag a player or two over the next season and some juniors come on.


Sorry mate, I think you’re missing the point. All I’m saying is that we’ve followed the same process twice and each time we got the same negative result, so I’m suggesting that we simply change what we’re doing in order to increase our strike rate and at the same time stop players coming to us for a favourable valuation to kickstart their negotiations with their more preferred clubs.
I know Madge, Hartigan, Lee and Justin are smart enough to know this already. I just put it out there for discussion.
If you think it’s a good idea to not have a desired outcome.. as you state “you don’t focus on the outcome “ and “you can’t control the outcome.” Then I have to ask, what’s the point?

I don't think I'm missing the point. You are stating that the process needs to change because we haven't signed Latrell and JAC. I don't believe the process failed at all. We put together good contracts. JAC even signed one contract. These guys weren't negotiating in good faith and so we stopped negotiating. That is how you handle a negotiation.

We agree that it appears the club are well managed and anyone thinking they can provide simplistic management speak to improve the situation are probably on the wrong track.

When you state what is the point if not the outcome. The point is to consistently act professionally and compete to the best of your ability and more often than not I think you will come out ahead. You don't control the outcome. You do control your actions.

Your last sentence .....so if no one signs with us it's not the club's fault ..it's the players not signing fault ..so in 5 years time we blame 80% of the players in the comp ...not our standards ....

It's not 80% of players knocking us back. It's a couple of players. Admittedly they are elite level players. I don't though see the issue with this as Melbourne never sign stars.

My opinion is that if we keep signing guys like AD, LL, Blore etc we can develop a quality team. If anything the big issue is retraining the quality players. Losing guys like Aloiai and Matterson hurts but I don't really know what else you can do.