James Graham

[Glennb]

why not? the cap allows for unlimited 3rd party agreements - this is the way all clubs will go - .

Not entirely true. There is a limit (cant remember the amount but not that much) on 3rd party agreements if there can be shown a link to the club. 3rd party agreements are unlimited if there is absolutely no link between the club and the third party, so no sponsors, suppliers, relatives, parent companies etc. In effect however there is a limit to this "unlimited" 3rd party agreement because if the 3rd party truly has no link to the club, what incentive do they have to provide the money? Of course Company A can use the player for endorsements however the club has to walk a fine line between fostering these unlinked 3rd party agreements and cannabilising their own sponsorship. By this I mean that if a club can get a company to agree to be a unlinked 3rd party for a player, they could be also using that money as sponsorship therefor eit effectively reduces the overall sponsorship available to the club.

So these 3rd party agreements are really only valuable to the club IF the club already has garnered sufficient revenue through sponsorship to cover the running of the club for the full salary cap amount…THEN after that they can get unlinked 3rd parties to top up.

Glenn

Money in is still Money In (Very deep I know)

The largest expense of a NRL club would be wages of players I would imagine.

If player A is paid 150K from official sponsorship and Topped off by 300K per annum by an unlinked 3rd part deal.

Then the club club would be ecstatic! Same player, who cares where on the books it is. ..

I disagree with this pretty strongly. The whole idea of a salary cap, contrary to common belief is NOT to act as a leveller between clubs. It is not a quasi draft. The idea of a salary cap is that this is approximately the salary burden that it somewhat sustainable based on the clubs average turnover (approx $10-12M…I dont know the sponsorship component). Therefore you NEED a certain base of sponsorship to cover JUST your salary cap component. If you have a third party who is NOT a sponsor (unlinked) paying money for a player OUTSIDE th ecap, not only are you increasing your liabilities but also potentially decreasing your revenue (3rd party could be a sponsor and actually GET something out of it)

The idea behind 3rd party unlinked being unlimited is tewofold. It covers the "Craig Wing" scenario where a genuinely unlinked company wants to pay him mpney because he is a pretty boy and why shouldnt he be able to earn money, and secondly it enables clubs to attract more money to the game.

IMO they are only of benefit to a club if they already havea a solid sponsorship base that more than covers the salary cap otherwise you are just cannabilising your own sponsorship base.

 

[diedpretty]

I think your missing the point Glenn - and Souths are the perfect example - they can maintain their sponsorship from Ozzie companies and because of Rusty's contacts overseas can pull in 3rd party money that doesn't really care about souths - they are Rusty's mates - so souths have a 3rd party pulling power as far as people are prepared to throw in for Rusty - the real question is how divorced from the club are they - to me once Rusty approaches them and tells them what he wants to do there is a link - to be honestly divorced from the whole process is almost impossible - the NRL should have knocked this on the head years ago with Locky and now it is going to come back to haunt them big time by a phone throwing gladiator.

 

[redemption]

The Thoroughbreds prove diedpretty right - there is only one degree of separation (if that between clubs and their players' major personal/commercial benefactors)!!!

As Watto said - the commercial interests require ROI to enter into such a deal - and that does not come via a financial return!

It is about the players assisting in networking and establishing commercial ground/good-will in the context of a given market!

And all the regionalised Queensland NRL teams have the upper hand against the Sydney teams in this regard!

As for "genuinely unlinked companies" Glenn - the player is essentially free to broker and enter into any number of such deals that are truly independent outside of their club sponsors!

But the reality is that 99.9% of all third-party agreements are surreptitiously hooked up by the club and subject to the player entering into a playing contract!!

This only truly benefits clubs with a high-end political/corporate supporter base like the Dragons, Roosters, Titans, Storm & Broncos!

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

If we signed James Graham I would be very happy. He would fit in very well and offer our side a lot.

Onto 3rd party deals, they are a mess and the NRL or new commission need to fix ASAP.

If we want to have a salary cap to even the competition we have to restrict the number of 3rd party deals as well. I always wonder why the Broncos had so many good players and now I know. They have 20 players or a 3rd party deal.

If the NRL don't limit or someway restrict the number of 3rd party deals you may as well not have a cap. The rich clubs will always make the 8 once they realize 3rd party deals are the way to go. Bruno showed the other clubs the way to go.

I for one don't want a competition like the English Premier League we the same rich clubs are at the top every year. In that competition a team like West Ham has great junior development and brings players through for them to get poached by a bigger team.

It would be like us losing Lawrence, Benji and Farah to the Broncos, Easts or Souths etc.

The NRL must act now and limit 3rd party deals.

 

[Geo]

The Thoroughbreds prove diedpretty right - there is only one degree of separation (if that between clubs and their players' major personal/commercial benefactors)!!!

As Watto said - the commercial interests require ROI to enter into such a deal - and that does not come via a financial return!

It is about the players assisting in networking and establishing commercial ground/good-will in the context of a given market!

And all the regionalised Queensland NRL teams have the upper hand against the Sydney teams in this regard!

As for "genuinely unlinked companies" Glenn - the player is essentially free to broker and enter into any number of such deals that are truly independent outside of their club sponsors!

**But the reality is that 99.9% of all third-party agreements are surreptitiously hooked up by the club and subject to the player entering into a playing contract!!**

This only truly benefits clubs with a high-end political/corporate supporter base like the Dragons, Roosters, Titans, Storm & Broncos!

Hmmm…is this correct..?????...rather high % I think

 

[Red_Rugby]

Any danger of talking about James Graham as opposed to Third Party Agreements?

 

[Scorcher]

Latest whisper now is that Graham will be going to the Chooks, sorry if I got your hopes up too much but I was told that the Tigers had him signed. I think I may need to trade my informant in on a new one. LOL

 

[Guest]

Latest whisper now is that Graham will be going to the Chooks, sorry if I got your hopes up too much but I was told that the Tigers had him signed. I think I may need to trade my informant in on a new one. LOL

Your first post on this was a rumour to start with, so it was always a bit of a stretch to believe it at this stage.

 

[Captain_Awesome]

Didn't you say he was coming for the 2011 season. He won't be doing that, St Helens will not release him a year early, he's their best player and they are desperate to resign him.

 

[Geo]

Hmmmm intersting stuff …..woooo

 

[Scorcher]

Didn't you say he was coming for the 2011 season. He won't be doing that, St Helens will not release him a year early, he's their best player and they are desperate to resign him.

I was also surprised to hear that he would play in 2011, buy maybe at 25 he wants to get here ASAP. I'm sure if an Aussie club could send over one of their pensioners to compenstae it would be possible.

 

[Bazzinator]

james graham is the best forward in the world imo he does more than any two forwards combined and would be an asset to any team. if any club seriously wanted him they would say give me six different numbers and that is how much you are on a year. obviously no club can do this but thats what he deserves and prying him away from st helens will be hard but with royce over there and gareth and flanno over here they could be three big plusses in our favour

 

[stryker]

james graham is the best forward in the world imo he does more than any two forwards combined and would be an asset to any team. if any club seriously wanted him they would say give me six different numbers and that is how much you are on a year. obviously no club can do this but thats what he deserves and prying him away from st helens will be hard but with royce over there and gareth and flanno over here they could be three big plusses in our favour

He looks a very handy prop forward thats for sure, but I wouldnt go as far as to say he is the worlds best forward just yet. He needs to come over here and prove himself week in week out. Ellis is a far better player, and there are a few others as well.

 

[Captain_Awesome]

Gareth Ellis the bait to lure James Graham to Tigers

Dean Ritchie From: The Daily Telegraph November 24, 2010 12:00AM

SHREWD Wests Tigers will use their star Pommy forward Gareth Ellis to lure England captain James Graham to Concord for 2012.

Wests Tigers chief executive Stephen Humphreys met with the St Helens star during the recent Four Nations.

Asked would his club use Ellis to attract Graham, Humphreys said: "Your instincts are right.

"Having Gareth certainly won't be a disadvantage for us.

"Gareth has had a good experience at our club and that will certainly help.

"But who knows how much weight that will hold in James' final decision?"

Graham is committed to St Helens for next year but is keen to join Ellis and Souths' Sam Burgess in the NRL for 2012\. Former Wests Tigers assistant coach Royce Simmons is now coach of St Helens, who desperately want to retain Graham.

"James is an impressive guy who has a genuine interest in playing in the NRL at some point," Humphreys said.

"There wasn't a lot of depth to our conversation.

"It was more a chance to get to know him and establish a relationship with him.

"It is something we can build on over time. But I don't think we are exclusive - I think a lot of clubs will express an interest in James."

Graham has engaged the services of Australian-based manager David Riolo.

"I have spoken to Sam and Gareth about it," Graham said recently. "They love it [the NRL]."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/gareth-ellis-the-bait-to-lure-james-graham-to-tigers/story-e6frexnr-1225959642721

 

[Captain_Awesome]

^ Also on the page there is a poll, which asks, "Would you like to see England Captain James Graham playing for Wests Tigers in **2011**?"

 

[Knuckles]

Masterstroke …...... gr8 to see Tim and Stephen going all out to sign him.

I'm sure if he is good in the UK SL, with the coaching of Tim and Folkes, he will improve out of sight and may well end up indeed the best forward in the world.

 

[softlaw]

2012 assuming 2011 is Todd's last year
8 Galloway
9 Farah
10 Graham
11 Ellis
12 Fulton
13 Heigho

14 utility
15 Gibbs
16 Dwyer
17 Fifita

18 etc Murdoch, Moors, Schirnack, Woods, Flanagan etc. etc.

That's a very impressive pack.

 

[Geo]

:astonished: :astonished: :astonished: :astonished: U mean Wests Tigers are actually goin after a PROP who's good and there is no mystery about it….

How times have changed...

Nice work Sheens...Excellent stuff Mr Humphreys...

Get em Gareth....

That starting pack u named there softlaw would RULE the comp....

FIRE UP WESTS Tigers..
:sign:

 

[Chris]

2012 assuming 2011 is Todd's last year
8 Galloway
9 Farah
10 Graham
11 Ellis
12 Fulton
13 Heigho

14 utility
15 Gibbs
16 Dwyer
17 Fifita

18 etc Murdoch, Moors, Schirnack, Woods, Flanagan etc. etc.

That's a very impressive pack.

14 = Blake Ayshford

2011

1 Wade McKinnon
2 Lote Tuqiri
3 Tim Moltzen
4 Chris Lawrence
5 Taniela Tuiaki
6 Benji Marshall
7 Robert Lui (Provided he can clear his legal issues)
8 Galloway
9 Farah
10 Payten
11 Ellis
12 Fulton
13 Heighington

14 Ayshford
15 Gibbs
16 Dwyer
17 Fifita

 

[innsaneink]

U mean Wests Tigers are actually goin after a PROP

Yeah…about time.
Folkes