Jersey Flegg Team Announcement: Round 20

[pawsandclaws1]

@willow Your explanation only highlights the shortcomings in talent identification and retention at the Club.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr We had a gap at fullback. Tedesco was not secured so who was Plan B? Seems to be prudent to secure a successor. We have failed to secure a top line replacement since Tedesco left which only highlights the rather curious succession planning at WTs.

We didn't have a gap until Tedesco left.

Roosters didn't have a topline replacement when RTS left. Where are these fantasy clubs that have topline replacements bouncing around in reserves on the chance that the star player leaves? Who has a complete topline team ready and waiting as a Plan B?

And who are these fantasy clubs that immediately secure a new topline replacement if their start player does leave? In the Roosters case, they didn't plan to lose RTS, then decided to field Blake Ferguson as FB. Dale Copley was brought in for the new centres role and frankly he's very ordinary.

Tigers did secure a topline replacement anyway - Mbye. Not the world's greatest fullback but a rep-level player signed within 6 months of Tedesco starting at Roosters.

Your idea is pure nonsense, that clubs are expected to have topline players in the wings on the off chance that a high-level player leaves. Doesn't happen because of the salary cap. At best, some clubs with known retiring players can plan for the succession.

 

[Jock Koss]

@jirskyr we needed a back-up plan & gun for reserves. Needed to be re-signed but was in no way ever going to play once Ted lit up !

 

[fred]

@balmain-boy just repeating what I was told Monday night. I was told Bradley didn’t even get a trial under McDonnell at Canterbury, so left and got a start with dragons at Jersey Flegg age, Dillon apparently he doesn’t like although being a gun finisher with great speed , my source tells me it’s because “warren loves a crawler, and Dillon definitely isn’t that, he keeps to himself and trains super hard, but he’s old school, doesn’t suck up to anyone”. Smith I was told “isn’t liked by a few people , including team mates” and Talau left the bulldogs cause McDonnell doesn’t rate him and offered him a rubbish contract at the dogs basically “forcing him to go to another club”. Whether anything happens who knows, just passing on what I was told, thought it was quite interesting.

 

[Madge]

@fred Re. Bradley, Talau and Dillion, I’m surprised. Smith not so much.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@jirskyr I referred to succession planning in that we should have had Papenhuyzen re-signed should the worst case scenario eventuate.. Well tit did eventuate and it was Bellamy who had the succession planning in place at our expense. The fact we lost Papenhuyzen, lost Tedesco and had no plans to replace them reeks of amateurism which will keep our club out of the 8 until we fix it. You may think it nonsense, but I operate in the world of reality.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr I referred to succession planning in that we should have had Papenhuyzen re-signed should the worst case scenario eventuate.. Well tit did eventuate and it was Bellamy who had the succession planning in place at our expense. The fact we lost Papenhuyzen, lost Tedesco and had no plans to replace them reeks of amateurism which will keep our club out of the 8 until we fix it. You may think it nonsense, but I operate in the world of reality.

Yeah I do think it is nonsense.

You propose top-tier junior talent signed up in every position to cover POSSIBLE loss of first-grade players. Such a thing does not exist, there is no junior team going around with top-tier talent in every position. I don't even think the lower tier salary cap permits it.

Every club has FOUR development players max, not 13, not 17.

If you are lucky you may have a junior who becomes ready for NRL at the same time a player leaves, or the first-grader chooses to retire and you have a gap opening.

However when you hit April or May and are finalising your roster for next year, if you have an incumbent and a junior probably ready for firsts, both off contract, what do you do?

Well it turns out Tigers offered Paps a deal and he turned it down anyway, to go into the Storm system. So it wasn't about lack of succession planning, it was about two players choosing to leave the club at the same time.

From the horse's mouth himself:
>"**We heard Teddy was going to stay, that he was locked in at the Tigers**," Papenhuyzen said.
>
>"So I was going to be behind Teddy, or go to Melbourne and be behind Biully.
>
>"Financially the deals with the Tigers and Melbourne were similar. But if I wanted longevity, the place to go was Melbourne.
>
>"I was also having hamstring problems at the time and the Storm mapped out what I could do to overcome it. I was impressed by that. They sent me off to a few people before I even got down there. I ended up doing some work with their speed coach Adam Basil, who raced at the Olympics, and he worked on my glutes, technique, stuff like that.
>
>"It all made the decision easier."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/you-can-t-dutch-this-flyer-papenhuyzen-one-that-got-away-from-tigers-20190515-p51nih.html

What I will grant you is that Tigers are probably considered an inferior destination for some players, particularly if you have the facilities offered by Penrith, sponsorship via Broncos, unofficial handshakes at Roosters, Rusty's mansion at Souths, coaching expertise at Storm.

I'll grant that if you really want to become a better footballer, Storm is an enticing location. Paps felt that Storm had better strategies for his hamstring issues and that's on Tigers physio not succession planning.

You can keep saying the same crap about succession planning and I won't bother pulling you up any more, but it's a delusion, yes.

 

[Guest]

@jirskyr I referred to succession planning in that we should have had Papenhuyzen re-signed should the worst case scenario eventuate.. Well tit did eventuate and it was Bellamy who had the succession planning in place at our expense. The fact we lost Papenhuyzen, lost Tedesco and had no plans to replace them reeks of amateurism which will keep our club out of the 8 until we fix it. You may think it nonsense, but I operate in the world of reality.

Yeah I do think it is nonsense.

You propose top-tier junior talent signed up in every position to cover POSSIBLE loss of first-grade players. Such a thing does not exist, there is no junior team going around with top-tier talent in every position. I don't even think the lower tier salary cap permits it.

Every club has FOUR development players max, not 13, not 17.

If you are lucky you may have a junior who becomes ready for NRL at the same time a player leaves, or the first-grader chooses to retire and you have a gap opening.

However when you hit April or May and are finalising your roster for next year, if you have an incumbent and a junior probably ready for firsts, both off contract, what do you do?

Well it turns out Tigers offered Paps a deal and he turned it down anyway, to go into the Storm system. So it wasn't about lack of succession planning, it was about two players choosing to leave the club at the same time.

From the horse's mouth himself:
>"**We heard Teddy was going to stay, that he was locked in at the Tigers**," Papenhuyzen said.
>
>"So I was going to be behind Teddy, or go to Melbourne and be behind Biully.
>
>"Financially the deals with the Tigers and Melbourne were similar. But if I wanted longevity, the place to go was Melbourne.
>
>"I was also having hamstring problems at the time and the Storm mapped out what I could do to overcome it. I was impressed by that. They sent me off to a few people before I even got down there. I ended up doing some work with their speed coach Adam Basil, who raced at the Olympics, and he worked on my glutes, technique, stuff like that.
>
>"It all made the decision easier."

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/you-can-t-dutch-this-flyer-papenhuyzen-one-that-got-away-from-tigers-20190515-p51nih.html

What I will grant you is that Tigers are probably considered an inferior destination for some players, particularly if you have the facilities offered by Penrith, sponsorship via Broncos, unofficial handshakes at Roosters, Rusty's mansion at Souths, coaching expertise at Storm.

I'll grant that if you really want to become a better footballer, Storm is an enticing location. Paps felt that Storm had better strategies for his hamstring issues and that's on Tigers physio not succession planning.

You can keep saying the same crap about succession planning and I won't bother pulling you up any more, but it's a delusion, yes.

Well said, logical above all else which some fail to grasp.

 

[balmain boy]

@fred all that this points out is that McDonnell got sacked by 2 clubs in about 3 years.

McDonnell needs to be given a brief as to the type of players we're looking for in each position and find players that match. His personal tastes should be largely irrelevant.

 

[balmain boy]

I wonder if anyone has realised we signed Michael Fenn from manlys flegg side a month ago and he's already made a couple of appearances for both our flegg and cc sides. Aggressive prop, played rugby as an 8 for iggs if I recall correctly.

Would have worked with lambkin last year. Someone to keep an eye on and hopefully he adds something different to our pack

 

[ALX22]

@fred all that this points out is that McDonnell got sacked by 2 clubs in about 3 years.

McDonnell needs to be given a brief as to the **type of players we're looking for in each position and find players that match**. His personal tastes should be largely irrelevant.

Spot on, and this is already happening. Hopefully the strategy is to target junior reps with strong work ethic.

 

[Madge]

@balmain-boy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYM241PLzeQ

 

[WT2K]

@balmain-boy
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VYM241PLzeQ

Big lad. Look forward to watching him on Saturday.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@balmain-boy Thanks for the information. Why would Manly release him mid season? Finally we seem to be getting our act together with junior identification and let's hope retention.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@jirskyr I have read a comment on this forum that Bellamy has back up players for each position in his system. Top tier junior talent. Look at Hughes, Papenhuyzen and Drinkwater being an example for the fullback position. So it can and is being done in the leading clubs,. The Broncos have hundreds of players signed up. No doubt the players from these two clubs are farmed out to QLD clubs and most are not development players.

 

[jirskyr]

@jirskyr I have read a comment on this forum that Bellamy has back up players for each position in his system. Top tier junior talent. Look at Hughes, Papenhuyzen and Drinkwater being an example for the fullback position. So it can and is being done in the leading clubs,. The Broncos have hundreds of players signed up. No doubt the players from these two clubs are farmed out to QLD clubs and most are not development players.

That's fine, name the players. Name the top-tier players the Storm have for every position. Who is the backup half, who is the 5/8th, who are the centres? Don't just say "oh they do it" - everyone has some form of backup for every position, but we are talking top-tier talent, not just also-rans.

Because I watch the Storm, their first-choice centres this year were Chambers and Scott. Good combo. Now Scott's gone off the rails, so the next call-up is... Marion Seve! Average centre, couldn't get a gig at his previous 2 clubs. Next call-up is... Justin Olam! Seems like a nice guy, certainly not a top-tier junior talent. And Cheyse Blair got a better offer from Castleford. Who is this gun centre kid that Bellamy has up his sleeve, when Scott unexpectedly had personal issues?

How did Ryley Jacks go when pulled in to replace Munster last year? The bloke doesn't even have a regular gig at Titans, one of the worst teams going around.

Don't offer me Broncos as an example of a large talent base, they can cherry-pick an entire city's worth (arguably state's worth) of players and have a distinct geographical advantage. Still doesn't work out wonders for them, no premiership in 13 years and a number of young kids thrown to the wolves in 2019.

And who exactly is the top-tier talent emerging at the Broncos? David Fifita yes, Payne Haas yes. Who is their new gun junior fullback? Who is their gun junior half? Who is their gun junior hooker? Gosh I think we just signed their gun hooker. All these other fellows they are pulling in are just kids, may or may not make it. Dearden was given a go, got injured. Now this Turpin fellow is handed the reigns; they've got Darius Boyd running around at #6 now, about as old and crusty as a Bronco can get!

Broncos haven't blooded a genuine electric junior talent in the spine since Ben Hunt, and even he's a 50/50 bet whether or not you really rate him. Guys like Milford were signed from somewhere else.

 

[WT2K]

@fred all that this points out is that McDonnell got sacked by 2 clubs in about 3 years.

McDonnell needs to be given a brief as to the **type of players we're looking for in each position and find players that match**. His personal tastes should be largely irrelevant.

Spot on, and this is already happening. Hopefully the strategy is to target junior reps with strong work ethic.

Would you or any others that are familiar with this side of our club know what role McDonnell and Lambkin have going forward?

 

[Jimmy]

@jirskyr Coates is a gun once his d is better he’ll be fantastic, and it’s called a salary cap

 

[krayola]

@WT2K Lambkin, is that you?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

@jirskyr The recent QLD rep teams were littered with Bronco talent. Coates is just the tip. Melbourne offered up Tino Faasuamaleaui recently which explains why Welch is being sought. Strategic recruitment and development to fill vacancies. Succession planning is happening. I was asked why WTs didn't have a third fullback option after Tedesco and Papenhuyzen? Good question and why now are we just starting to do junior recruitment again out of QLD?

Brisbane Brocos

Centres Gehamat Shibasaki, Xavier Coates, Katoni Staggs

Fullbacks Tesi Niu, Reece Walsh, Herbie Farnham

Halves Tom Deardon, Cory Paix, Tanah Boyd (recently released to Gold Coast), Troy Dargan

Melbourne Storm next stat Tino Faasuamaleaui (prop) and half Billy Walters.