Lack of signings

[jirskyr]

That being said, I can also understand that the whole LM circus has left some, if not many, feeling deflated in that we’re not an attractive proposition for elite players even when we have significantly better money to offer than other clubs.
The problem is that Wests fans are tired of waiting and that is very understandable, so lack of patience shadows a lot of these posts about our roster being perceived as weaker.

I agree - but it's based only on the actions of a single player, who doesn't have a good reputation anyway.

Latrell was like a fast-food opportunity that seems to have passed us by, a "quick fix" for some disgruntled fans. But I question whether 2019 Tigers, minus Matto and Marsters, plus Latrell, would be a significantly stronger finals threat for 2020? Latrell addresses our strike power concerns but does nothing at all for pace, consistency, hooker (as you note) or depth issues in the backs.

 

[jirskyr]

We lost Tedesco Moses and Woods yet still found ourselves in a Cap mess and copped a Cap fine. Players excel when they leave here and we haven’t attracted any elite players

You have to stop trudging that weary old line, which is exactly the problem I'm talking about, a no doubt adds to your feeling of despair. Players do not necessarily excel when they leave and signing elite players is rare/difficult. If you can release yourself of these burdens, you can remove some of the despair.

Elite players don't fix unworkable clubs, you have to rebuild from the ground up, first provide the team that supports the elite players to do their best. IMO Tedesco was every bit as good at the Tigers as he has been for the Roosters, except that he now gets to be more judicious and thus cut many of the errors out of his game (from trying too hard). Tedesco has gained massive short-term success simply because he's playing for a terrific side, not because he's suddenly a better player. Tedesco couldn't get Tigers to the finals alone.

Tigers typically don't sign elite players, never have, so don't suddenly expect it!

In regards to cap mess and fine, neither of those are actually related to losing Tedesco and Woods. You can't replace Tedesco. Woods, turns out, was easily replaced. But the "mess" had nothing to do with financial management or cap space, it was simply that we were committed to hand-picked players by a coach who backstabbed us. The issue is with the coach, not the deals that were done under his direction.

So I don't understand why anyone loses sleep over the Cleary saga. Yes it was horrendous, in fact, I'd say we are lucky we aren't in a worse position, having your coach withdraw himself after one year and having committed a significant portion of your salary cap to players he was now abandoning. Having to find a new coach of sufficient calibre and giving him no cap space to operate in for the first 12 months.

Why despair over what Cleary did? Not our fault, he's a dog, we move on. It's not typical, it's never happened to us before and rarely happens to any club.

 

[jirskyr]

If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

What does it say about Latrell? I don't think it says anything much about the Tigers at all.

If Latrell actually comes out in the media and says "I would never sign for the Tigers, they are the most unprofessional rabble in the competition" - then what of it?

The opinion of a 22 year old with a history of malcontent.

Fair enough, if you go on record with 100 players who think Tigers suck, then you have something. But that's never going to happen.

Or look at Newcastle, by all reports in the media "on the nose" with players, rightly so after a string of wooden spoons. They go all-in on Ponga and then jag Pearce and Klemmer in a tumultuous offseason, suddenly they are a destination that can appear to attract top-tier players. Doesn't take long to flip your fortunes.

And even then, doesn't work for Newcastle at all. They don't win with an average roster, they don't win with a strong roster. For all the players on their books, players that we were interested in at Tigers, Knights are still massively short of success and now find themselves without the coach who signed those players, and with players like Ramien wanting to leave after just 1 year.

What does it say about Newcastle? I don't think it says anything specifically, other than it's hard to become a regularly successful club.

 

[Telltails]

In my opinion there is far to much condemnation of our recruiting staff and coach so far this off season..we must consider all the calamity that we have endured in the last few years to take into perspective where we are now,all the shouting about not signing top marquee players is a bit over the top when we have to sort the fundamental mistakes others have made,Reynolds,Matalino,Matto for eg,big money contracts,most of the time spent on the sidelines or left for greener pastures,the RF affair etc..
Maybe if we stop and think for a minute that the staff are constantly trying to do the right thing by the rules and what money they have but not to make the same mistake as others have previously.No mean feat since there was a huge mess to cleanup.
Im not worrying to much atm because Iam relying on the core people within the club to finally make the right decisions in regards to players and funds available.


Funds is not the problem not making finals for 8 straight years is ,even if some on this forum keep shooting me down.If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

It says the salary cap should be abolished because it's not working.

 

[tiga4eva]

8 years without a Semi Final appearance is disgraceful and unjustifiable. I've been a season ticket holder for 4 years, but this is the first season that I'm struggling for motivation. It seems like we back a horse in the Melbourne Cup that you know cannot win.

 

[jirskyr]

In my opinion there is far to much condemnation of our recruiting staff and coach so far this off season..we must consider all the calamity that we have endured in the last few years to take into perspective where we are now,all the shouting about not signing top marquee players is a bit over the top when we have to sort the fundamental mistakes others have made,Reynolds,Matalino,Matto for eg,big money contracts,most of the time spent on the sidelines or left for greener pastures,the RF affair etc..
Maybe if we stop and think for a minute that the staff are constantly trying to do the right thing by the rules and what money they have but not to make the same mistake as others have previously.No mean feat since there was a huge mess to cleanup.
Im not worrying to much atm because Iam relying on the core people within the club to finally make the right decisions in regards to players and funds available.


Funds is not the problem not making finals for 8 straight years is ,even if some on this forum keep shooting me down.If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

It says the salary cap should be abolished because it's not working.

You abolish the cap and you remove the last institution keeping the Tigers semi-competitive.

I don't know how anyone, Balmain or Magpies origin, can forget how uncompetitive our clubs were for so many seasons.

In the 90s as a Tigers fan, I was just happy if we didn't get belted every week. Never did I entertain notions of playing finals football. It was like being an Aston Villa fan in the EPL - you were just happy to be part of the top-flight, even though you didn't win a thing.

Nowadays people actually expect Tigers to make the finals, get upset when we don't. It's only the salary cap that makes this possible.

Remove the cap and watch the new EPL of the NRL - the Top 4 or 5 that dominate every single season, with huge wallets. Nobody will compete with Brisbane if the cap is removed!

 

[pawsandclaws1]

What motivates a player to allegedly accept a contract offer of $400k from one club when allegedly there are/were offers at least double from other clubs?

This is the question the NRL needs to find the answer to especially considering this player has a young family and this next contract will potentially set him up for the remainder of his life.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

That being said, I can also understand that the whole LM circus has left some, if not many, feeling deflated in that we’re not an attractive proposition for elite players even when we have significantly better money to offer than other clubs.
The problem is that Wests fans are tired of waiting and that is very understandable, so lack of patience shadows a lot of these posts about our roster being perceived as weaker.

I agree - but it's based only on the actions of a single player, who doesn't have a good reputation anyway.

Latrell was like a fast-food opportunity that seems to have passed us by, a "quick fix" for some disgruntled fans. But I question whether 2019 Tigers, minus Matto and Marsters, plus Latrell, would be a significantly stronger finals threat for 2020? Latrell addresses our strike power concerns but does nothing at all for pace, consistency, hooker (as you note) or depth issues in the backs.

You'll get no argument with me on any of that. The media have their part to play in the circus which all but saw him delivered until it didn't happen as well, and allowed the fans dare to get their hopes up which again has risen from desperation.

That all being said, I feel Latrell would be good for us, however I also agree that it is not a panacea for the club. Having Latrell doesn't fix the centre/fullback issue (delete where appropriate,) and the lack of a decent fit hooker.

 

[happy_tiger]

But the time wasted trying to sign Mitchell is an issue as well ...he was never the answer to our problems in becoming a Top 8 side

And if Pascoe , Madge , McDonnell believe he is/was the answer to our Top 8 aspirations we should be getting rid of them as well

 

[tigerbalm]

If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

What does it say about Latrell? I don't think it says anything much about the Tigers at all.

If Latrell actually comes out in the media and says "I would never sign for the Tigers, they are the most unprofessional rabble in the competition" - then what of it?

The opinion of a 22 year old with a history of malcontent.

Fair enough, if you go on record with 100 players who think Tigers suck, then you have something. But that's never going to happen.

Or look at Newcastle, by all reports in the media "on the nose" with players, rightly so after a string of wooden spoons. They go all-in on Ponga and then jag Pearce and Klemmer in a tumultuous offseason, suddenly they are a destination that can appear to attract top-tier players. Doesn't take long to flip your fortunes.

And even then, doesn't work for Newcastle at all. They don't win with an average roster, they don't win with a strong roster. For all the players on their books, players that we were interested in at Tigers, Knights are still massively short of success and now find themselves without the coach who signed those players, and with players like Ramien wanting to leave after just 1 year.

What does it say about Newcastle? I don't think it says anything specifically, other than it's hard to become a regularly successful club.

Your point might be valid if Wests had a history of attracting elite players..but they don't. They have a history of signing has been's and the only thing that has kept the team afloat is the odd diamond that's uncovered. LM snubbing the club for substantially less money speaks of west's failing as an organization rather than any shortcoming of LM.

And you mention Newcastle, even with all the issues you mentioned, they still kept Ponga, signed S/O players. Can't carry on blaming the world for West's problems. Things wont get better until they are addressed. Single home ground. COE (facilities). Coach finishes out his contract. No dramas with CEO's , board members and hopefully this will lead to being a competitive team that players want to come too.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

What does it say about Latrell? I don't think it says anything much about the Tigers at all.

If Latrell actually comes out in the media and says "I would never sign for the Tigers, they are the most unprofessional rabble in the competition" - then what of it?

The opinion of a 22 year old with a history of malcontent.

Fair enough, if you go on record with 100 players who think Tigers suck, then you have something. But that's never going to happen.

Or look at Newcastle, by all reports in the media "on the nose" with players, rightly so after a string of wooden spoons. They go all-in on Ponga and then jag Pearce and Klemmer in a tumultuous offseason, suddenly they are a destination that can appear to attract top-tier players. Doesn't take long to flip your fortunes.

And even then, doesn't work for Newcastle at all. They don't win with an average roster, they don't win with a strong roster. For all the players on their books, players that we were interested in at Tigers, Knights are still massively short of success and now find themselves without the coach who signed those players, and with players like Ramien wanting to leave after just 1 year.

What does it say about Newcastle? I don't think it says anything specifically, other than it's hard to become a regularly successful club.

Your point might be valid if Wests had a history of attracting elite players..but they don't. They have a history of signing has been's and the only thing that has kept the team afloat is the odd diamond that's uncovered. LM snubbing the club for substantially less money speaks of west's failing as an organization rather than any shortcoming of LM.

And you mention Newcastle, even with all the issues you mentioned, they still kept Ponga, signed S/O players. Can't carry on blaming the world for West's problems. Things wont get better until they are addressed. Single home ground. COE (facilities). Coach finishes out his contract. No dramas with CEO's , board members and hopefully this will lead to being a competitive team that players want to come too.

The Knights had the nerve to sign a young Ponga on a huge contract (at that time). Sometimes big risks pay off and it did this time. Good luck to them.

 

[Russell]

In my opinion there is far to much condemnation of our recruiting staff and coach so far this off season..we must consider all the calamity that we have endured in the last few years to take into perspective where we are now,all the shouting about not signing top marquee players is a bit over the top when we have to sort the fundamental mistakes others have made,Reynolds,Matalino,Matto for eg,big money contracts,most of the time spent on the sidelines or left for greener pastures,the RF affair etc..
Maybe if we stop and think for a minute that the staff are constantly trying to do the right thing by the rules and what money they have but not to make the same mistake as others have previously.No mean feat since there was a huge mess to cleanup.
Im not worrying to much atm because Iam relying on the core people within the club to finally make the right decisions in regards to players and funds available.


Funds is not the problem not making finals for 8 straight years is ,even if some on this forum keep shooting me down.If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

NO! what does that say about Greenberg and the NRL.

Don't believe the 400k talk anyway.

 

[earl]

If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

What does it say about Latrell? I don't think it says anything much about the Tigers at all.

If Latrell actually comes out in the media and says "I would never sign for the Tigers, they are the most unprofessional rabble in the competition" - then what of it?

The opinion of a 22 year old with a history of malcontent.

Fair enough, if you go on record with 100 players who think Tigers suck, then you have something. But that's never going to happen.

Or look at Newcastle, by all reports in the media "on the nose" with players, rightly so after a string of wooden spoons. They go all-in on Ponga and then jag Pearce and Klemmer in a tumultuous offseason, suddenly they are a destination that can appear to attract top-tier players. Doesn't take long to flip your fortunes.

And even then, doesn't work for Newcastle at all. They don't win with an average roster, they don't win with a strong roster. For all the players on their books, players that we were interested in at Tigers, Knights are still massively short of success and now find themselves without the coach who signed those players, and with players like Ramien wanting to leave after just 1 year.

What does it say about Newcastle? I don't think it says anything specifically, other than it's hard to become a regularly successful club.

Your point might be valid if Wests had a history of attracting elite players..but they don't. They have a history of signing has been's and the only thing that has kept the team afloat is the odd diamond that's uncovered. LM snubbing the club for substantially less money speaks of west's failing as an organization rather than any shortcoming of LM.

And you mention Newcastle, even with all the issues you mentioned, they still kept Ponga, signed S/O players. Can't carry on blaming the world for West's problems. Things wont get better until they are addressed. Single home ground. COE (facilities). Coach finishes out his contract. No dramas with CEO's , board members and hopefully this will lead to being a competitive team that players want to come too.

The Knights had the nerve to sign a young Ponga on a huge contract (at that time). Sometimes big risks pay off and it did this time. Good luck to them.

The point is though that they Knights with those players haven't been any more successful than we have. We apparently have also offered Latrell a great contract.

I don't see simple solutions or simple problems. I think the club just has to manage it's cap better and deal with each instance on it's merit. I don't think the cries of "incompetence" or "the NRL is corrupt" help.

Personally I think we need some better players next year just to be competitive. We do have 3 spots available though so I figure let's just see what happens.

 

[Goanna57]

If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

What does it say about Latrell? I don't think it says anything much about the Tigers at all.

If Latrell actually comes out in the media and says "I would never sign for the Tigers, they are the most unprofessional rabble in the competition" - then what of it?

The opinion of a 22 year old with a history of malcontent.

Fair enough, if you go on record with 100 players who think Tigers suck, then you have something. But that's never going to happen.

Or look at Newcastle, by all reports in the media "on the nose" with players, rightly so after a string of wooden spoons. They go all-in on Ponga and then jag Pearce and Klemmer in a tumultuous offseason, suddenly they are a destination that can appear to attract top-tier players. Doesn't take long to flip your fortunes.

And even then, doesn't work for Newcastle at all. They don't win with an average roster, they don't win with a strong roster. For all the players on their books, players that we were interested in at Tigers, Knights are still massively short of success and now find themselves without the coach who signed those players, and with players like Ramien wanting to leave after just 1 year.

What does it say about Newcastle? I don't think it says anything specifically, other than it's hard to become a regularly successful club.

IF the tigers could make the finals 2 times out of the last 8 I would almost consider it to be regularly successful for them . What it says to me is we have been a poorly run club in the past

 

[Goanna57]

In my opinion there is far to much condemnation of our recruiting staff and coach so far this off season..we must consider all the calamity that we have endured in the last few years to take into perspective where we are now,all the shouting about not signing top marquee players is a bit over the top when we have to sort the fundamental mistakes others have made,Reynolds,Matalino,Matto for eg,big money contracts,most of the time spent on the sidelines or left for greener pastures,the RF affair etc..
Maybe if we stop and think for a minute that the staff are constantly trying to do the right thing by the rules and what money they have but not to make the same mistake as others have previously.No mean feat since there was a huge mess to cleanup.
Im not worrying to much atm because Iam relying on the core people within the club to finally make the right decisions in regards to players and funds available.


Funds is not the problem not making finals for 8 straight years is ,even if some on this forum keep shooting me down.If LM signs for south’s for 400k as reported what does that say about the west’s tigers

NO! what does that say about Greenberg and the NRL.

Don't believe the 400k talk anyway.

Yer look I don’t see how the NRL can sign off on that amount everyone knows it’s way under he’s current value

 

[jirskyr]

The point is though that they Knights with those players haven’t been any more successful than we have. We apparently have also offered Latrell a great contract.

The point is also that Knights, at one point, couldn't sign park footballers, then managed 3 rep-level players in 12 months. And don't tell me Ponga / Pearce / Klemmer joined Knights because of their awesome facilities or the pulling power of Nathan Brown.

Things change v quickly in league, and I still firmly believe it's not about getting name players across, it's about building the right team.

Ponga isn't off contract until end of 2021, let's see what he does for 2022.

 

[jirskyr]

LM snubbing the club for substantially less money speaks of west’s failing as an organization rather than any shortcoming of LM.

No it doesn't. He might just be a muppet. Also, hasn't happened yet.

 

[Geo]

I’m surprised no one ever thought of this before

 

[Geo]

The point is though that they Knights with those players haven’t been any more successful than we have. We apparently have also offered Latrell a great contract.

The point is also that Knights, at one point, couldn't sign park footballers, then managed 3 rep-level players in 12 months. And don't tell me Ponga / Pearce / Klemmer joined Knights because of their awesome facilities or the pulling power of Nathan Brown.

Things change v quickly in league, and I still firmly believe it's not about getting name players across, it's about building the right team.

Ponga isn't off contract until end of 2021, let's see what he does for 2022.

Didn’t they finish behind us...?

 

[happy_tiger]

I’m surprised no one ever thought of this before

We did ...but then you have to assume everyone is a muppet and the clubs poo doesn't stink

But if your honest with yourself , yeah some might be muppets but maybe it is the WT's who might have the issues

But that is the problem many are convinced it's always someone else's fault ...almost as if it is a personal fault to believe the club they support could be wrong