Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[hobbo1]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

Edit: This is why I like the Sheens appointment.

Maybe you do but I don’t. This is not a sole trader or small business organisation where 1 person does everything. You have specialists for each area of the organisation. Not everyone has or should have football nous, that would not be a well functioning organisation.

The current model isn’t working too well it it !

 

[the_third]

‘Whispers are getting louder’: Madge given timeline to save job as dressing room turns

From Fox


Pressure is mounting on Wests Tigers coach Michael Maguire amid claims members of the playing group were taken aback by his press conference comments last week.

Maguire described his team’s performance against the Rabbitohs as “garbage” after the 38-22 loss, adding that he “needs to find men who are going to be accountable”.

Those comments did not go down well with some players though.

“I think we are all starting to hear the rumblings around the Tigers and a little bit of unrest at the club in regards to the way they go forward,” the Sydney Morning Herald’s Michael Chammas toldTriple M on Saturday.

“Quite a few of the players had their noses out of joint a little offended by Michael Maguire’s comments last week.”

The Tigers currently sit in 14th position with just five wins from 16 games and are yet to qualify for the finals under Maguire, who took the Rabbitohs to a premiership in 2014.

Maguire’s role in the club’s poor form has been excused at times with suggestions his hard edge is needed to address the soft underbelly at the Tigers.

But now he and the club face a stark reality.

“I’m not defending the players because I think there’s an element that the players are partly to blame,” Chammas said.

“It’s the reality of the situation that if he’s starting to lose them and comments like that, sending text messages amongst each other about ‘what’s the coach saying here about us’ and they’re taking offence to it.

“Whether they are right or wrong that is the reality of the situation Madge now finds himself in. How you overturn that, given their start to the year, given they are struggling to recruit players. I’m starting to feel he is losing a lot of support with the people that matter.”

It comes as the Daily Telegraph believes Maguire has six games to save his job and a defeat to the Broncos in their next match could prove fatal.

“They play Brisbane on the back of a bye, have lost to Melbourne and South Sydney which most people expected, but if they lose to Brisbane things could start to unravel pretty quickly,” Chammas added.

“The club is waiting for Tim Sheens to arrive, he probably won’t be out of quarantine until August but the whispers are getting louder.”

Sheens will be returning to the Tigers as head of football performance but The Australian’s Brent Read worries it may be too late to save Maguire’s job.

“The sense I get is they’ll wait until Tim gets here and gets his feet under the desk and a feel for the environment,” he said.

“I’ve been one of Madge’s biggest fans and I cop flak for it but even I acknowledge now the sense is unless things change dramatically in the next month or two, he can’t survive. They’re just making no headway, they’re actually going backwards.


“The players have to take a lot of responsibility for it but as we always see in these situations, it is easier to get rid of a coach than to clean out the dressing room. So ultimately if Tim Sheens gets there and they lose a couple more. If they lose that game [Broncos], that is another mark against him.

“If Tim gets there in August and things haven’t changed, I don’t see how Madge can be there next year.”

However, one of the other questions the club needs to ask itself is that if Maguire is not the coach to lead the Tigers forward, then who is?

Shane Flanagan, Paul Green and Paul McGregor are three high-profile former coaches looking for a full-time gig but Chammas is hearing another name.

“When I speak to people in the NRL about who the best coach the one name I keep hearing is Cameron Ciraldo,” he said.

Ciraldo was pursued by Cronulla to work as assistant coach alongside Craig Fitzgibbon but declined the offer, instead opting to stay put at Penrith.

Panthers great Mark Geyer though believes a head coaching gig would be enough to see Ciraldo leave the foot of the mountains.

“The hype is real,” he said.

“I think he’d leave for a first-grade job. I know that Fitzy wanted to headhunt him at the Sharks as an assistant but ultimately he stayed at Penrith and that got approved with a roar of cheers. The players love him.

“He’s the Fitzgibbon of Origin. Fitzy does all the talking to the players, Freddie will go on the record and say that. Freddie has that aura where he doesn’t need to say much and when he says it they jump. He’s got the whole squad juggling – one bloke who has gone to the next level juggling is Nathan Cleary – hand-eye coordination.”

When you combine Ciraldo’s open mindset with his strong communication skills, Geyer said the 36-year-old would thrive in head coaching role.

“He thinks outside the box, has a great demeanour,” he added.

“He’s a softly spoken bloke but when he talks you listen. He says it in a way that you want to run through walls for him and that’s what I’m trying to get back to.

“Respecting whose authority is above you. If you’ve got respect for them you’ll do anything, you won’t turn up to training drunk.”

Geyer is referring to reports David Nofoaluma was stood down from the Tigers leadership group after attending training hungover.

It was the morning after the wedding of chairman Lee Hagipantelis’ daughter.

He believes that incident speaks to the broader problems at not just the Tigers but other clubs struggling for form at the moment.

“Look at the Dragons with what happened to them last Saturday, the Bulldogs with what happened the week before, David Nofoaluma coming to training hungover - it doesn’t happen to Penrith, the Roosters and the Storm – the good clubs,” he said.

“It starts right at the top and filters its way down to the players. If you have respect for those who are above you, who are in command, you don’t stuff up. If you give a damn about who has the whistle in the hand you’re going to act accordingly.

“Is Madge the right man for the job? I think he is. Has he got a roster he doesn’t want at the moment? Half of it – yeah – they’re rugby league players who do this for a living.

“Some of the performances they’ve put up this year, they should be unemployed some of them, that’s just not up to first-grade standards. Something is wrong.

“Hopefully Tim Sheens who has an aura about him, if he can come straighten the Tigers out which I think he can, if you start winning it becomes infectious. That’s all the Tigers need a couple of back-to-back and they need to get one soon.”

If that does not come next week against Brisbane it will spell trouble for Maguire.


OK, thats great, Chamas has laid his agenda out for all to see.

his manager contact must need something

 

[Needaname]

The Daily Telerag ran a hit piece on us today.

**West Tigers players to determine fate of coach Michael Maguire**

The Wests Tigers players have six games to determine the fate of their coach Michael Maguire. A loss to the 15th-placed Broncos in Brisbane next Sunday could dramatically reduce that timeline. The 14th-placed Wests Tigers have managed five wins so far in 2021. It is currently their worst season on record. With eight games remaining in the regular season, the Tigers players need to decide if they want to save their coach.

The Wests Tigers need to find two wins in order to level with the club’s worst performing years, which is seven victories in 2002, 2003, 2013, 2017 and last year.

It’s hardly worth cheering about.

The Tigers’ five wins so far have been accrued against the Knights (ninth) and Dragons (seventh), both twice, and against a State of Origin-depleted Panthers (second). Maguire was signed — and re-signed again last December — in the belief that the no-nonsense coach would instil steel into a club that is devoid of an identity. There are few people in the game, who can agree on what the Wests Tigers stand for as a club. The other question being asked is: are the players playing for their coach?

The Tigers are averaging their most points-conceded per-game since forming as a joint-venture in 2000. In fairness, the hyperactive rule changes which have been implemented over the past two seasons have skewed the game towards attack over defence. Over the next six weeks, the Tigers face the Broncos (away), Sea Eagles (away), Warriors (home), Bulldogs (away), Cowboys (away), Sharks (away). Beating the Broncos is huge for Maguire. But even that still may not be enough for the steadfast mentor to see out his current contract that isn‘t due to expire until the end of 2023.

Aside from on-field performance, the club is being held back by an inability to recruit the game‘s best talent on the open market.

It’s unfair to pin every player signing on Maguire — but very few players sign because they want to train, learn and play under a particular CEO or board.

The stark reality is, the Tigers in many cases, aren’t even getting to the negotiation table.

For example, two of the longest-serving player agents in the NRL haven‘t heard from the Wests Tigers in months. The veteran deal-makers don’t have a single player on the Tigers current roster. Working separately, the two agents boast a combined 45 years worth of experience in cutting deals for some of the biggest players in the game.

They have sent their players to broken clubs before. In the last six months alone, they have inked multimillion-dollar deals at other clubs — which are just as low as the Tigers on the ladder — for their client list that includes past and present Test and State of Origin halves, forwards and outside backs. That’s hugely concerning if you’re a Tigers supporter.

Latrell Mitchell, who was offered $4.4 million from the Tigers, took $600,000 less to sign with South Sydney. Josh Addo-Carr signed a heads of agreement to join the Tigers — then pulled out to join wooden-spoon favourites the Bulldogs. The Tigers have been told by one-and-all to sign Storm forward and NSW vice-captain Dale Finucane. On the surface, it’s a fair and obvious call. But what the fans don’t understand is that the Tigers may as well be linked to Michael Jordan. They are being used up.

The Tigers would need to offer a four-year deal and pay more than $700,000 per-season to even get a meeting with 30-year-old Finucane.

Meanwhile, other clubs are being told they can get Finucane for $550,000 per-season and they wouldn’t have to offer him four years.

Maguire aptly described the effort by the Tigers to lose 38-22 against South Sydney last weekend as “garbage”. The last week has sparked nervous conversations and questions at Concord.

These are the same conversations former premiership-winner Tim Sheens will be asked to answer when he arrives at the end of this month. Is it the playing roster, is it the coach, or is it both? Sheens will return to the Tigers, for the first time since departing as head coach in September, 2012.

He is back, appointed to a role — and this is important — that has never existed before. His title is head of football performance, but from a success-starved Tigers fan point of view, Sheens could be asked to sell hot dogs on Mary Street, for all they care. The appointment of ‘Tiger Tim’ is defining for Maguire, who understandably has asked his tight-knit crew of staff why, given his own resume of success, the club needs Sheens looking under the bonnet.

More immediately though, the Tigers play the Broncos next Sunday.

Winning is everything.

Would love to know who the unnamed agents are and the stable of off contract stars that they manage.

I have looked at the off contract list for next year and didn't see any stand out marquees

Look for the agent that represents Reynolds that is one of them as hinted in the article.

 

[mike]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

Edit: This is why I like the Sheens appointment.

Maybe you do but I don’t. This is not a sole trader or small business organisation where 1 person does everything. You have specialists for each area of the organisation. Not everyone has or should have football nous, that would not be a well functioning organisation.

The current model isn’t working too well it it !

It’s not the model that is broken, it’s how must are run. Some of the players are broken and need replacing.

 

[tigerballs]

My other concern with Madge is whether he is the coach that will improve the players in what is basically a young squad.

His record at souths
Year Record
2012 16w-8l
2013 18w-6l
2014 15w-9l
2015 13w-11l
2016 9w-15l
2017 9w 15l

I still have the view he fired up a squad the John Lang had built and slowly took it backwards. Unfortunately what he inherited here was not as good, but it is getting worse.

Took it backwards to a premiership with most of that team never playing for Lang.

 

[hobbo1]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

Edit: This is why I like the Sheens appointment.

Maybe you do but I don’t. This is not a sole trader or small business organisation where 1 person does everything. You have specialists for each area of the organisation. Not everyone has or should have football nous, that would not be a well functioning organisation.

The current model isn’t working too well it it !

It’s not the model that is broken, it’s how must are run. Some of the players are broken and need replacing.

Oath on some players
If Madge goes several players need to be tapped on the shoulder

 

[the_third]

I have heard on numerous occassions in pre match comments by Maguire that the team has trained well and practiced what they have to do and then they come out on to the field and play like headless chooks with no pattern / system to defence and little to no planning.

So, doesnt the truth then have to be that on the field of battle they are falling apart under pressure? Could it be that the leadership group isnt leading by example, the captain is not inspiring them (or not on the field), and the halfback is not organising, or most worryingly, the team is dogging it. While it is true there are many young-uns in the 17, there are also enough experienced old-uns to be able to take the pressure and help the others. Yet, they are not.

If they are doing totally opposite to what has been practised on training the culprit players are in the wrong and should be sacked. Surely contracts have in them undertaking coaches instructions. If the players think they n=know better tit cant go on.

Im all for replacing Maguire if we can find someone better, but the players behind all this should not, cannot, escape the axe. If they do get a new coach, they would have to accept the direction the club is going in and not go through another massive rebuild.

Questions are being asked of the coach about why he is reporting to the club that training is going well but that is not transferring to gameday.

That’s an interesting one. It feels like we have a pretty disconnected group which I’d imagine would also be fairly obvious through the week. Do people from the senior admin not go to training and watch? What are they doing? Certainly not winning in their meetings with player managers.

Going and watching training and understanding what is happening, whether the goals of the session are being achieved, if players are hitting data etc are different things. I don't expect Pascoe to be able to go to training and determine of the training session was successful. I would also be disappointed if he is spending all day at training.

With the right experience it’s easy to tell the difference between a really connected team and one that’s got issues. I think everything would just be humming if you watched Melbourne train. I imagine some of our fellas would stroll in and probably not even acknowledge each other. That’s how they’re playing anyway.

Yes but that is not the senior management role to see that, it is Madges role. That is why he is being asked those questions.

This is where we disagree mate, from top down I’d want football nous. They’re on big money and what exactly are they doing to win us games?

Edit: This is why I like the Sheens appointment.

Maybe you do but I don’t. This is not a sole trader or small business organisation where 1 person does everything. You have specialists for each area of the organisation. Not everyone has or should have football nous, that would not be a well functioning organisation.

The current model isn’t working too well it it !

It’s not the model that is broken, it’s how must are run. Some of the players are broken and need replacing.

board and football dept chose Madge, yet they continue.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The comment in the DT article that Finucane wants $550k at most clubs but $700k plus 4 years to come to WTs must be a real worry.

 

[BalmainJnr]

The comment in the DT article that Finucane wants $550k at most clubs but $700k plus 4 years to come to WTs must be a real worry.

What’s the definition of most clubs? Everyone bar the bottom four or five? Or everyone bar the WT?
Not that it makes it any better for us but I don’t think we would be the only club he would want more to play out.
The reality of a competitive player being on the market and being chased by largely uncompetitive teams.

 

[Needaname]

The comment in the DT article that Finucane wants $550k at most clubs but $700k plus 4 years to come to WTs must be a real worry.

Maybe he wants a longer term to see us all the way through to his next Grand Final appearance.
We should be smart and offer 550 for 3 plus a finals bonus of 100 each year and club option for the club favour if we play a grand final during his time at the club.

 

[Guest]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

 

[Geo]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

 

[hsvjones]

All this talk about Madge been fired has the players licking there lips again... A lot of these players don't give a shit and happy to collect their massive pay cheques but as soon as the coach calls them out in public they cry. Not come out and show that they are 1st grade players with pride in the jersey and happy playing NRL... Madge is correct wether or not he remains coach but the fact is these guys are not MEN..
I'm not saying Madge is not 100% the reason but we continually go through coaches and the same results.. We are a weak minded team and need to harden up. Its a culture in the club and hoping games go our way and not wanting to put the hard yards in and be accountable.
If Belly, Bennett or Robinson said in a Press Conf what Madge said the media would be congratulating him on been discipline and not excepting below par standards.. I personally hope Sheen comes in to sees this and backs the coach and we get rid of the remaining deadwood. I know people don't like Madge but him Hartigan are doing a great job building this club from the ground up..

 

[TillLindemann]

“Look at the Dragons with what happened to them last Saturday, the Bulldogs with what happened the week before, David Nofoaluma coming to training hungover - it doesn’t happen to Penrith, the Roosters and the Storm – the good clubs,” he said.

This quote in the article is demonstrably rubbish - there've been countless incidents at all three of those clubs - fights, sex videos, drug use..

 

[Guest]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

At what exactly? The BS caveat at the bottom of the page?

 

[cochise]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

At what exactly? The BS caveat at the bottom of the page?

I thought I hadn't noticed that before.

 

[Guest]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

At what exactly? The BS caveat at the bottom of the page?

I thought I hadn't noticed that before.

Just goes to show we've been hung out to dry.

 

[Tiger5150]

“Look at the Dragons with what happened to them last Saturday, the Bulldogs with what happened the week before, David Nofoaluma coming to training hungover - it doesn’t happen to Penrith, the Roosters and the Storm – the good clubs,” he said.

This quote in the article is demonstrably rubbish - there've been countless incidents at all three of those clubs - fights, sex videos, drug use..

Have you misquoted me? I dont remember saying that?

 

[Geo]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

At what exactly? The BS caveat at the bottom of the page?

Yes

 

[Guest]

The thing is, Madge looks to be the only one who's fired up and want's to win.

Look who decided to drop in. I see you have still failed to respond to any of the concerns raised by the mods.

Look below..

At what exactly? The BS caveat at the bottom of the page?

Yes

When Karl says "we" he means himself. He makes money off this forum and has done for years.