Madge Maguire - Mega Thread

[Tbone]

I knew he wouldnt have the balls to drop any of the senior players.

After it being Liddles fault and Stefanos fault after poor losses earlier in the season it appears it is now Seyfarths fault, Blores fault and Tom Amones fault for the last two weeks.

Just sack the guy already he doesnt have what it takes to turn this club around. He is ALL TALK and way too soft!

Yep have to agree to have Mbye and Mikaele anywhere near this team is an insult to all supporters.

They won’t drop Mbye because we’re paying him around 70 grand each month. It’s an ego thing now I’m sure of it.

We should pay Mbye every month in cash in 5 cent coins. 70k means 1.4 million 5 cent pieces. Go to the nearest nursing home and find the oldest resident then have them count out each of the 1.4 million coins for him one at a time. Turn up to his house at the crack of dawn too.

 

[Needaname]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

 

[cochise]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

 

[BAGNF05]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

While it might not be the official way of doing things, I believe a captain worth his salt could influence a ref to stop play. Certainly Cam Smith could.

 

[Needaname]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

While it might not be the official way of doing things, I believe a captain worth his salt could influence a ref to stop play. Certainly Cam Smith could.

Hard to say, this is the first year whereby the stoppages rules were tightened.
They may not of even listened to Cam Smith.

 

[jirskyr]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I didn't get that impression at all, but I've never seen him and Madge in the same room.

 

[TigerWest]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I didn't get that impression at all, but I've never seen him and Madge in the same room.

https://www.espn.com.au/nrl/story/_/id/28694534/building-nrl-premiership-winning-team-draft-free-league

"I think it's important that the senior coach has complete buy-in as to which players are coming in. Otherwise if they don't have that buy-in it's harder for them to believe in that player when they are coaching them.

"It's the same with Madge (Michael Maguire, Tigers head coach) I think it is important that your coach has a say, it's not necessarily the final say, but they need to be across what direction we are going with when it comes to recruitment.

 

[Furious1]

Anybody see the part of the doco today where Madge wanted the game stopped when Stefano was hurt. Raiders move up field and score against 12. That summed up Wests Tigers for me, cam smith would have stopped the game, unpacked a picnic and waited for Stef to recover all before the 3rd tackle.

Saw it.

Russell is set to come on. Madge is saying down to the bench, stop the game, stop the game.

I’ve seen it many times where the ref will let the play continue on even if our player is unable to continue, think in this case it was due to head knock.

Unfortunately the Raiders scored on our 12 men.

I’m wondering who is at fault. Were the bench not trying hard enough to get the refs attention or was the ref not having any of it?

Official rule below:

Trainers
In 2021, where a trainer asks a match official to stop the game for an injury, the injured player must be either interchanged or taken off the field for a period of two minutes of elapsed game time before he is permitted to resume his place on the field. This will reduce the number of stoppages for minor injuries.

Yeah i saw it too. Ive been on the Madge "has to go" bandwagon, but i must say after seeing that, no wonder he is struggling. I remember watching the game at the time blowing up that we had an injured player and it wasn't stopped, yet numerous times they will stop it for a cramp. It's like he is forced to micro manage everything due to incompetent staff, but then i realise, it was Madge who hired them.

 

[Demps]

@The_Patriot @TigerNeddyK @BAGNF05

🔥🔥🔥

Facts 💯
Love your passion.

No idea why yas got downvoted tho...
Take the thumbs up 👍🏻 and never to afraid to speak your mind.

 

[tony soprano]

Douiehi back to five eighth, Pauga to make debut at centre. Tuki Simpkins debut off bench.

That’s it? He couldn’t find any other men?

That was such a dumb comment wasn't it. I'm fine with keeping Madge but mainly because I don't think the coach is a problem but a couple more dumb comments like that and they can sack him.

I don't expect the coach to turn it around. I expect him to try which is what he is doing. I think he has made some bad decisions but those decisions would be fine if we had a better squad.

Could you imagine cool calm Tim witnessing madges
Blow ups. The show coming up should give us good insight on his coaching methods

 

[Spartan117]

The teasers dropped by FoxSports have only increased ny respect for Madge and shown me that we need.to put the very best people around him that we can.


The "Stop the game" example against the raiders showed the ineptitude of the staff and the immaturity of the playing group on the field.

A Cam smith on the field would have seen and reacted.

Were rebuilding....

Im more of a madge fan based on what i have seen.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

The teasers dropped by FoxSports have only increased ny respect for Madge and shown me that we need.to put the very best people around him that we can.


The "Stop the game" example against the raiders showed the ineptitude of the staff and the immaturity of the playing group on the field.

A Cam smith on the field would have seen and reacted.

Were rebuilding....

Im more of a madge fan based on what i have seen.

Good leaders surround themselves with the very best people. Interesting you express the need to surround Maguire with the very best people.

 

[tony soprano]

The teasers dropped by FoxSports have only increased ny respect for Madge and shown me that we need.to put the very best people around him that we can.


The "Stop the game" example against the raiders showed the ineptitude of the staff and the immaturity of the playing group on the field.

A Cam smith on the field would have seen and reacted.

Were rebuilding....

Im more of a madge fan based on what i have seen.

I don’t know if screaming being emotional is really beneficial for the players. The results say that.

I can’t remember what happened with Canberra

 

[Furious1]

The teasers dropped by FoxSports have only increased ny respect for Madge and shown me that we need.to put the very best people around him that we can.


The "Stop the game" example against the raiders showed the ineptitude of the staff and the immaturity of the playing group on the field.

A Cam smith on the field would have seen and reacted.

Were rebuilding....

Im more of a madge fan based on what i have seen.

I don’t know if screaming being emotional is really beneficial for the players. The results say that.

I can’t remember what happened with Canberra

To be fair, in the snippet they showed of him in Canberra it was Snoopy Collins he was telling to stop the game, continually!! I actually thought he handled it quite well once the try was scored, i would have lost my shit ( and probably did at the time). Anyway snippets here and there, it's hard to tell until we get to see it all in it's entirety.

 

[Snake]

The teasers dropped by FoxSports have only increased ny respect for Madge and shown me that we need.to put the very best people around him that we can.


The "Stop the game" example against the raiders showed the ineptitude of the staff and the immaturity of the playing group on the field.

A Cam smith on the field would have seen and reacted.

Were rebuilding....

Im more of a madge fan based on what i have seen.

I don’t know if screaming being emotional is really beneficial for the players. The results say that.

I can’t remember what happened with Canberra

The Storm have such a laid back an non confrontational coach there results certainly highlight this .

 

[Spartan117]

Good leaders surround themselves with the very best people. Interesting you express the need to surround Maguire with the very best people.

Paws, There is only so much that an organisation is able to empower and support their key Personnel.

The Tigers have a stable business now despite the lack of on the field success in the last decade. This is allowing them to bring in better people.

 

[Spartan117]

I can’t remember what happened with Canberra

I remember, They brought back Robbie Farah to help guide / teach the players

 

[tony soprano]

I can’t remember what happened with Canberra

I remember, They brought back Robbie Farah to help guide / teach the players

I just remember we lost can’t remember anything else significant

 

[Geo]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I don't think it's like school where you have a Principal - Deputy - Leaders of Learning etc hierarchical chain of reporting ..

It is a team structure with all being responsible..

 

[cochise]

I'm a huge Madge fan, but from what I can see he's a dead man walking.

Let's not forget that he was dumped by Souths for allegedly losing the support of the playing group.

It's looking like that's exactly what's happening here.

With Tim Sheens coming on board, it's just a matter of time.

To be fair, I think that's a good move too. He's a club legend and will have mega respect and influence from the board down.


God help us if Sheens has much influence in coaching.He was sacked here and had a low percentage win rate in ESL.As long as he stays where he is supposed to be in pathways he should be ok

**the two seasons prior to being sacked we finished top 4.** In UK his win record has been 58%.

So why was he sacked?
I honestly can’t remember, too long ago, I remember it wasn’t pleasant and most were pleased. I thought it was results driven?
I do think he’s been away from the NRL scene too long to offer much in the way of game day tactics, but he will still know what a good player looks like?

We were favs to win in 2012 (the year he was sacked) and when we didn't make the 8 he was ditched. He'd been here for 10 years and our expectations that year were to win it.

He's coached over 650 NRL games and has still been involved in the game since he left here. In many ways the way the game is currently played is a perfect match for his style of coaching. I think he'd be the sort of coach that could get us on the right track pretty quickly.

Are you now saying you want him as coach?

As i've previously mentioned, my preference would be to have someone like Gardiner/Ciraldo/Morris take over the head coaching role with Sheens sitting above as Coaching Director.

But surely you will agree that a coaching director will be the coach, while the poor coach will basically be the assistant but cop the blame when the directors plans go awry?

Not necessarily, depends on how it's structured. But if Sheens was made head coach i'd have no major issues with that either, provided a succession plan was in place.

We're at a place now where we make a change or just blindly hope that Madge can improve the team.

So blindly hoping Tim can is better?
You don’t think the players are letting the team down, at all?

When you're on a downward trajectory like us, sticking with the status quo and hoping for it to turn around is blind hope. Is it blind hope to think Sheens can do better? In his 3rd season with us he won a premiership, whilst in Madge's 3rd season he's trying to avoid the spoon.

As for the players, I think a lot of them are an embarrassment, but when you sign a coaching contract you have to get the best out of the players you've got. He's also signed a number of players so it's not entirely Cleary's dud roster anymore (which Madge still got to 9th). A really good coach can adapt his style to suit the playing group he's got. I haven't seen any evidence of him adapting whatsoever.

So what is your strategy for success, is it to roll over the roster until he finally gets a team that can play for him? And is that practical? You asked me earlier why we got rid of Sheens. Why did Souths get rid of Madge?

Roll over the roster until you get a team that can play for Wests Tigers and not just bludge to get their pay packet. Madge should say a few more things like his we need men comment, this would further help identify those players with a bad attitude.

Hypothetically, in your opinion, how many of the 30 would you need to be rolled over for him to finally get the team he needs to be competitive?

As many as it takes. It’s not what Madge needs to be competitive it’s what Wests Tigers need to be competitive. This player crap has been going on for over 10 years now, long before Madge, and it has to stop. The players and the player culture is the problem and the players need to held accountable.

So you're willing to give him another 3-5 years to clear out the rosterf completely??

Whatever it takes to fix the culture and have players be held to account. It’s not giving Madge another 3-5 years it’s giving the club time to get its house in order and get rid of this poisonous attitude that percolates through the successive playing groups.

And that's fair enough, I just don't think Madge is the man who can fix it.

The club as a whole needs to fix it. It’s not just the coach. Like I said this has been happening for over a decade and through successive coaches . It needs to be a team approach through all aspects of the organisation. That goes for the Board, staff (both corporate and football) and players. Anyone who allows the players to perpetuate the poor attitude needs to go along with the player(s).

I think we are making very good progress with pathways and I think Pascoe was very proactive getting Sheens on board. I think as a club we're moving in the right direction in all ways except on field. My opinion is Madge is the weak link, but happy to be proven wrong.

Sheens reporting directly to Pascoe suggests the latter wants what is broken fixed.

Who else is Sheens going to report to? If he reports to Madge, he's an assistant coach, but also I don't believe anyone in pathways reports to Madge, that's not Madge's primary job.

He could report to Hartigan. The link to the WTs' release certainly suggests Maguire reports to Hartigan.

https://www.weststigers.com.au/news/2020/11/09/wests-tigers-confirm-2021-football-department

The press release doesn't say anything about Hartigan at all. He's just in the list.

While not being 100%, I believe that Hartigan is above Madge. But that comes from pretty much the same conversations that you have been involved in lol

I don't think it's like school where you have a Principal - Deputy - Leaders of Learning etc hierarchical chain of reporting ..

It is a team structure with all being responsible..

Good point