Manly’s sacking of Geoff Toovey eerily similar to Wests Tigers disposal of former coach Mick Potter

[innsaneink]

The seasons were the same….just back to front.
We were good to begin with...and died in the arse. ..they're the opposite

 

[jirskyr]

Tigers all-time average Points Against is 23.65 points per game.

We are at 22.74 right now.

Ok so if we average 23.65 points per game over our history.

Our current points against per game is 22.74.

Unless you have some other over complicated way of looking at this Jason Taylor has come into the club, made defense the absolute priority and has only improved us by .91 points a game.

Not even a field goal!

In anyone's language thats a massive fail

Well two things.

Firstly, it's 3.55 PPG better than 2014\. The most you can really ask for a coach, especially a first-year coach, is to do better than the previous year.

Secondly, I'm not sure if you fully understand the implication of what an average is. The average does not tell you the ranking of your current result, nor how far apart all the results are spaced. What average tells you is one way of looking at the middle point of the data.

For example a set {10, 10, 10} has the same average as the set {5, 10, 15}. Clearly doing better than 10 in the first set is more meaningful than doing better than 10 in the latter set.

As it turns out, only 5/16 all-time WT defensive seasons are > 0.91 better than average.

 

[jirskyr]

Averages can be deceptive. What would you rather? Conceding:

14, 20, 16, 48, 18, 16, 46, 18 = Average 24.5

Or

30, 30, 6, 28, 32, 10, 32, 28 = Average 24.5

I don't think averages are deceptive, they are just part of a statistical argument. Usually when you are talking about an average, it also is necessary to talk about ranks or distances from the average, to give context to where a result lies.

 

[Yossarian]

Averages can be deceptive. What would you rather? Conceding:

14, 20, 16, 48, 18, 16, 46, 18 = Average 24.5

Or

30, 30, 6, 28, 32, 10, 32, 28 = Average 24.5

I don't think averages are deceptive, they are just part of a statistical argument. Usually when you are talking about an average, it also is necessary to talk about ranks or distances from the average, to give context to where a result lies.

That's what a median is for. That will give you a better idea of how a team defends.

 

[happy_tiger]

Averages can be deceptive. What would you rather? Conceding:

14, 20, 16, 48, 18, 16, 46, 18 = Average 24.5

Or

30, 30, 6, 28, 32, 10, 32, 28 = Average 24.5

I don't think averages are deceptive, they are just part of a statistical argument. Usually when you are talking about an average, it also is necessary to talk about ranks or distances from the average, to give context to where a result lies.

That's what a median is for. That will give you a better idea of how a team defends.

Maybe we should of used the median for Bradman's batting average :unamused:

Or Jim Higgs batting average :laughing:

Jirskyr is right

3.5 points a game is an exceptional job when a team loses approximately 150 tackles a game defensively and experience wise from one season to the next and has to replace that talent with many players with less than 50 NRL games experience

 

[Geo]

Looks like we need a Bell curve…

 

[Flippedy]

The seasons were the same….just back to front.
We were good to begin with...and died in the arse. ..they're the opposite

Gotcha

 

[Newtown]

NRL getting like soccer: Bennett
Russell Jackson
05:08 AEST Sun Aug 2 2015

The NRL is getting more like English soccer when it comes to the treatment of coaches, according to Wayne Bennett. The veteran mentor's assertion comes in the wake of sackings this week of Manly's Geoff Toovey and Bennett's former assistant at Newcastle, Rick Stone, who was axed by the Knights last Monday.

Toovey's side demolished Bennett's competition leaders Brisbane 44-14 in Gosford on Saturday night and the supercoach was quick to show his support for the former Manly halfback.

"We're certainly getting more like English soccer, I know that much … where the managers get replaced pretty often," he said. "The best clubs and the most successful clubs are the ones that have the most stable organisation."

 

[innsaneink]

The seasons were the same….just back to front.
We were good to begin with...and died in the arse. ..they're the opposite

Gotcha

You sure did.

:master:

 

[innsaneink]

NRL getting like soccer: Bennett
Russell Jackson
05:08 AEST Sun Aug 2 2015

The NRL is getting more like English soccer when it comes to the treatment of coaches, according to Wayne Bennett. The veteran mentor's assertion comes in the wake of sackings this week of Manly's Geoff Toovey and Bennett's former assistant at Newcastle, Rick Stone, who was axed by the Knights last Monday.

Toovey's side demolished Bennett's competition leaders Brisbane 44-14 in Gosford on Saturday night and the supercoach was quick to show his support for the former Manly halfback.

"We're certainly getting more like English soccer, I know that much … where the managers get replaced pretty often," he said. "The best clubs and the most successful clubs are the ones that have the most stable organisation."

He CCed this to his CO as well

 

[Yossarian]

Averages can be deceptive. What would you rather? Conceding:

14, 20, 16, 48, 18, 16, 46, 18 = Average 24.5

Or

30, 30, 6, 28, 32, 10, 32, 28 = Average 24.5

I don't think averages are deceptive, they are just part of a statistical argument. Usually when you are talking about an average, it also is necessary to talk about ranks or distances from the average, to give context to where a result lies.

That's what a median is for. That will give you a better idea of how a team defends.

Maybe we should of used the median for Bradman's batting average :unamused:

Or Jim Higgs batting average :laughing:

Jirskyr is right

3.5 points a game is an exceptional job when a team loses approximately 150 tackles a game defensively and experience wise from one season to the next and has to replace that talent with many players with less than 50 NRL games experience

Completely different things but okay since you choose to resort to being sarcastic cricket averages aren't always the most accurate measurement of a player's value. Massive centuries with failures equate to consistent scoring with no failure.

 

[jirskyr]

Averages can be deceptive. What would you rather? Conceding:

14, 20, 16, 48, 18, 16, 46, 18 = Average 24.5

Or

30, 30, 6, 28, 32, 10, 32, 28 = Average 24.5

I don't think averages are deceptive, they are just part of a statistical argument. Usually when you are talking about an average, it also is necessary to talk about ranks or distances from the average, to give context to where a result lies.

That's what a median is for. That will give you a better idea of how a team defends.

Not necessarily. Medians can be good to eliminate the significant impact of large outliers that can occur for averages.

But in league, I argue you want to include your outlying results. This is because they are representative of the total and ongoing performance of a whole team (as opposed to different houses) - you shouldn't just discard results because they are quite high or quite low.

Also, because rugby league scores are within a fairly consistent range (and are usually not odd numbers), the median may not adequately differentiate between results.

For example, if you look at the median points scored per game for all WT seasons, 2015 ends up being the 4th best attacking season on record (a median of 20 points per game). Unfortunately, another 5 seasons also have a median points scored of 20 points, meaning more than 1/3 of all seasons are rated the same.

 

[Yossarian]

Well we'll just have to disagree jirskyr.

 

[Russell]

Tooves knifing has likely cost Manly a semis spot….same for us last year

I dunno Ink, look how Manly played last night! Our guys didn't react like that on the field when they knew Potter was going - we crashed and burned.

That's because half of them wanted him out and didn't play to their full ability Ink.

It was Manly management that wanted Tooves gone.

 

[Russell]

Addressed wrongly Ink

Above should be Flip - Apologies

 

[innsaneink]

Addressed wrongly Ink

Above should be Flip - Apologies

No probs, point taken, and youre correct

 

[Tiger_In_The_Gong]

Tigers all-time average Points Against is 23.65 points per game.

We are at 22.74 right now.

Ok so if we average 23.65 points per game over our history.

Our current points against per game is 22.74.

Unless you have some other over complicated way of looking at this Jason Taylor has come into the club, made defense the absolute priority and has only improved us by .91 points a game.

Not even a field goal!

In anyone's language thats a massive fail

Well two things.

Firstly, it's 3.55 PPG better than 2014\. The most you can really ask for a coach, especially a first-year coach, is to do better than the previous year.

Secondly, I'm not sure if you fully understand the implication of what an average is. The average does not tell you the ranking of your current result, nor how far apart all the results are spaced. What average tells you is one way of looking at the middle point of the data.

For example a set {10, 10, 10} has the same average as the set {5, 10, 15}. Clearly doing better than 10 in the first set is more meaningful than doing better than 10 in the latter set.

As it turns out, only 5/16 all-time WT defensive seasons are 0.91 better than average.

No need for the condescending tone in this reply. I and am sure most of the people on this forum are aware of what an average is.

I posted what i did simply to prove a point that a statistic is only as important as the agenda the person compiling them is trying to represent. Youve bored most of us to tears with these stats but any time someone uses your own figures to represent a point opposite to the one you are trying to improve you resort to condescending remarks about their understanding of them. There is no need for it.

You dont know us. for example you would not know that hobby of mine has been horse racing systems and ratings analyses. Ive been doing this with my head in form guides, books on the subject, keeping accurate and unbiased records, interpreting the statistical evidence and what not for going on 30 years now. Yet because i challenge your opinion you imply i dont understand what an average is lol.

As for the case you are trying to make that Taylor has improved the team, well yes he might have but you dont need a stat to tell you he could hardly make them worse they were the last couple of years.

People have picked their sides in this debate, let it be.

 

[innsaneink]

I hope the off season is better than this

 

[jirskyr]

No need for the condescending tone in this reply. I and am sure most of the people on this forum are aware of what an average is.

I posted what i did simply to prove a point that a statistic is only as important as the agenda the person compiling them is trying to represent. Youve bored most of us to tears with these stats but any time someone uses your own figures to represent a point opposite to the one you are trying to improve you resort to condescending remarks about their understanding of them. There is no need for it.

You dont know us. for example you would not know that hobby of mine has been horse racing systems and ratings analyses. Ive been doing this with my head in form guides, books on the subject, keeping accurate and unbiased records, interpreting the statistical evidence and what not for going on 30 years now. Yet because i challenge your opinion you imply i dont understand what an average is lol.

As for the case you are trying to make that Taylor has improved the team, well yes he might have but you dont need a stat to tell you he could hardly make them worse they were the last couple of years.

People have picked their sides in this debate, let it be.

I am sorry, I did not intend to offend you. I did not make any summary judgement about what you do or do not know, I was only responding specifically to an argument you were making.

If you are really bored to tears with my comments, despite your personal hobby of ratings analyses and interpreting statistical evidence for 30 years, feel free to ignore me.

Nothing personal against you.

 

[jirskyr]

I hope the off season is better than this

It's fine ink, we'll have your running commentary to amuse us.