The problem is we can't recruit any good players, they won't come here, and I suppose you can't blame them They all want to go to a club that wins week in week out - unfortunately that's not us
Mid Year report card
- Thread starter Stevec
- Start date
crazycat
Well-known member
We need to view our side as a whole. I can't say where crap, or ready to turn a corner.
The way I see it:
Forwards including hooker are at a top 6 standard.
Halfbacks are in disarray with Brooks leaving and injured*.
Our backs are in total disarray bar fullback.
Unlike last year, we are not getting walked all over. This year we see games where our pack has been dominant yet we get soft tries against us.
We need to get our "wressle" up. While we have brought some of the leagues grittiest players in Paps, Klemmer and Bateman, we haven't developed Grit internally. That is the key we are missing. Our priority should be hiring an assistant or coach to develop Grit, in our tackling and our match fitness.
AS many have said Stefano seemed "gassed" after 15 minutes of origin. While origin is tough, that is on us.
*yes not much better with Brooks around, though Brooks was actually playing "okay" for once... We seriously miss him now.
BlackWhiteGold
Well-known member
Can anyone explain to me why with modern day defensive structures, why the defenders 2 & 3 in from the wing don't have trust on their inside defender & press in? So many times with winger tries, I just think if the centre & half/back-rower stayed on their man, they would prevented an overlap.
I would love to see a team trial without using the 'press in' structure and entrust each player to stay on their man.
I would love to see a team trial without using the 'press in' structure and entrust each player to stay on their man.
Tucker
Well-known member
Sheens and Benji aren’t gritty types.
By their own admission, they spent all off season throwing the ball around (the infamous 200 passes per day) and working on their attack.
We aren’t getting walked over because the guys in the middle are making their tackles. Also, having had a look at our effective tackle percentages, I was surprised to see we recorded higher percentages than our opponents on every game this year. We are missing less tackles and performing less ineffective tackles per game on average than our opponents. We are sticking to the tackles we are attempting. That’s not to say that our defence has improved markedly…we are still letting in 4 tries per game during our 11 losses so far but it has shown that the tackles we are attempting are good.
It’s hard to pinpoint where we are losing. The stats suggest that anything to do with kicking the football, we are hopeless at. They also suggest we are quite error prone and therefore not completing our sets to a high enough degree.
We dominate the middle 60 meters of the field. We are carting the ball further, making more linebreaks and breaking more tackles than our opponents. We are creating second phase through far more offloads than our opponents. From what I’ve seen, the problem is two fold…
1. We are not defending our 20m red zone, like we are the rest of the field. We are very poor at defending an error at our end and miss simple tackles. Our highball defence is awful.
2. We are not attacking the opposition 20m red zone like we are the rest of the field.
We become disorganised, panicky, and lose all structure. We do not contest the highball effectively enough.
My suggestion is that our tactics within these two zones change from the rest of our gameplay to a huge extent. These tactics are far inferior and are causing too much stress on the players. It’s a coaching issue for mine and one I hope they have identified and are working on.
Jolls
Well-known member
It isn't so much that they press in it is based on the actions of the payer inside. If the inside player turns in they all have to follow suit otherwise you end up with a gaping hole in the defensive line. If they turn out then they all turn out. The logic is that the inside players, once the threat has passed, combine with the fullback and the sideline to stop the play.
In our day that was sort of what cover defence was; however, our cover defenders were usually the lock and/or half. Some didn't defend in the line at all and were there specifically as cover defenders. Now they usually refer to it as scramble and is effectively every hand on deck to culminate the play.
The big difference from the old defensive structure is that we used to have the lock and potentially the half back plugging the caps in behind the man on man defence to cover for the fullback chiming in, the run around and inevitable missed tackle. Fullbacks (at times), halves and locks now all defend in the line. To run the man on man defence effectively we would need to have one or two players acting as the kelpies so a different style of defence. Apart from that there are times when teams use slide, umberella (up and in) and combinations of the three depending on field position.
Queensland used a type of up and in defence in the SSO to cut off the halves and nullify the centres. To be effective this requires excellent line speed and endurance. To combat this NSW tried to go side to side; clearly that affected their attacking shape. Qld also used their scramble and the sideline effectively because they forced NSW on the outside shoulder as they tried to go around the up and in defence of the Qld edge. This pushed them towards the sideline and the rest is history.
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Jolls
Well-known member
Good analysis but I think the issue is that we are defending and attacking, more or less, the same way all over the field and the oppositon changes what they do inside both 20m zones.
In attack our halves continue to play and kick the ball before the line - they need to dig into the line and have the support players hitting gaps at the line or kicking into those same gaps as opposed to trying to play or kick through them.
In defence our scramble is not up to it and positionally we don't have players where the ball is going to end up. We need to work on our line speed and force their halves to play early and get them pushing towards the sideline and running out of room.
It is easy to see and to say, but difficult to do. While the results aren't on the board your analysis of the stats clearly shows that we have picked up significantly on last year. The issue is that improvement still isn't enough to match it with the big boys.
Attack wise I don't think this is going to change until we recruit a group of halves (NRL and reggies) that naturally dig deep into the line and at least one that is a real game manager. One really damaging centre would be a nice addition.
Defence - you are spot on this is about structure, attitude and training. This is one area we should be able to address in the last part of this season. Our kick defusion needs a lot of work, and Bula needs to develop his control of the defensive structure; but he is young s a full offseason will do him and us wonders. This part of the game is more about attitude than talent and is definitely something we can address. Although having Kepoa not playing in the centres would be a good start.
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Tiger Stripes
Well-known member
And where is the cover defence?
The better sides seem to have 2 or 3 tacklers crash the winger into touch?
Magpies1969
Well-known member
WT sitting on the bottom of the ladder after finishing last in 2022 so not much besides the coaching staff has changed. One big win against the Cowboys appears to be only cheering point.
Failure is my rating so far.
I would keep the following in NRL
Bula (probably one of the only shining lights in 2023)
Staines (was good before injury and can cover full back)
Toa (starting to show promise so leave him at Centre not a 5/8)
Vacancy for other Centre position
Tupou (is rocks and diamonds at the moment but worth persisting with. Needs a stable Centre to develop a combination)
Vacancy for 5/8
Vacancy for Half Back
Vacancy for Lock (Let's give young Matamua a shot for rest of 2023)
Bateman (Quality)
Papalii (Quality and will only get better once he gets his Eels form going)
Klemmer (Quality and should have been selected for SOO. Great pick up for WT)
Koroisau (Our best player by a long way. Best hooker in the game)
Utoikamanu (Developing nicely but still has so much still to offer. Needs to develop Mongral)
Reserves
Pole (Not a lock. Prop rotation. Again a shining light in the last 2 seasons)
Twal (every team needs a rock like Twal. Great he finally got the monkey off his back with a try)
Jake Simpkin (worth keeping)
Wakeham (Depth signing only)
Reilly (like him to have a shot this season)
Naden (Depth signing only. Could be a quality player but lacks consistency and appears a dumb player)
James (like to see him given a go off the bench to see if he has what it takes)
Kepaoa (depth signing but still can turn his career around with right people around him. Has shown promise but lots of dumb things as well).
Feledy (hope for the future. Given his age don't rush him).
We really need to get a quality Centre, 5/8, Half Back and Lock. A damaging prop like Spencer from Penrith would have been a great addition to team.
Without a quality half back in 2024 it will be yet another long season.
Failure is my rating so far.
I would keep the following in NRL
Bula (probably one of the only shining lights in 2023)
Staines (was good before injury and can cover full back)
Toa (starting to show promise so leave him at Centre not a 5/8)
Vacancy for other Centre position
Tupou (is rocks and diamonds at the moment but worth persisting with. Needs a stable Centre to develop a combination)
Vacancy for 5/8
Vacancy for Half Back
Vacancy for Lock (Let's give young Matamua a shot for rest of 2023)
Bateman (Quality)
Papalii (Quality and will only get better once he gets his Eels form going)
Klemmer (Quality and should have been selected for SOO. Great pick up for WT)
Koroisau (Our best player by a long way. Best hooker in the game)
Utoikamanu (Developing nicely but still has so much still to offer. Needs to develop Mongral)
Reserves
Pole (Not a lock. Prop rotation. Again a shining light in the last 2 seasons)
Twal (every team needs a rock like Twal. Great he finally got the monkey off his back with a try)
Jake Simpkin (worth keeping)
Wakeham (Depth signing only)
Reilly (like him to have a shot this season)
Naden (Depth signing only. Could be a quality player but lacks consistency and appears a dumb player)
James (like to see him given a go off the bench to see if he has what it takes)
Kepaoa (depth signing but still can turn his career around with right people around him. Has shown promise but lots of dumb things as well).
Feledy (hope for the future. Given his age don't rush him).
We really need to get a quality Centre, 5/8, Half Back and Lock. A damaging prop like Spencer from Penrith would have been a great addition to team.
Without a quality half back in 2024 it will be yet another long season.
