Moltzen is the best option at fullback and stop whinging

watersider

Well-known member
It is important to put things in perspective. Tim Moltzen is coming back from a serious knee injury. This takes a significant time to recover from. Look at all the examples of players coming back from such surgery to prove that point.

I agree with Sheens' selection of Moltzen at fullback and I hope he stays there. McKinnon is not the same player he was, Brown is good but doesn't have the same attacking options that Moltzen does and I think Meaney only looks like an average player in first grade. With Moltzen we have a ballplaying fullback with pace and an excellent kicking game.

I think of the three halfbacks in contention for a first grade spot, Moltzen is the most able at fullback. I think the potential of having Farah, Lui/Miller, Marshall and Moltzen is better than anything we have seen at this club (including 2005). It will take time to workout the best way to utilise these players but it will work in the end because all the players are smart and creative footballers who play an attacking brand.

The weakness of Moltzen under the high ball and against the kick is a problem, but I believe he has the potential to improve in these areas. I think that bomb took an incredibly unlucky bounce for him last night. He is still an inexperienced player and will still make many mistakes.

The argument that he should develop in state league is shortsighted. There is a very large gap between top grade and state cup, I personally don't want him recovering from his knee injury in state league and getting used to the slower pace only to bring him into top grade and endure the period of time it would then take him to catch up to the pace of top grade. Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

People on here need to think about more then just one game at a time. Once again Sheens and team selections come up as an issue. Where was this discussion last week when he virtually did the EXACT SAME THING?
Once again the same three issues come up. Here is why the criticisms of Sheens are wrong:
1.Meaney needs to be on the bench because we need a back in case of injuries. There have been injuries to the backs in almost every game this year.
2\. We play and interchange small forwards with big front rowers because THAT IS OUR STYLE OF PLAY. That is why we play with such dexterity and speed. You all want to change this??? I hope not.
3\. Last night was a bad performance. how many of our performances have been at that level? Very few. Last night is evidence of how good a side we are and how well coached we are. Even with 8 first graders or so out, even when we are playing badly, even when we are playing away, even when the ref calls every god damn knock on by them in the play the ball a penalty against us and even up against a strong and desperate team we still only lost the game by a try in the final minute and were bloody unlucky not to win. AND YOU ARE ALL COMPLAINING? Cop the painful loss but put it in perspective.
 
@watersider said:
It is important to put things in perspective. Tim Moltzen is coming back from a serious knee injury. This takes a significant time to recover from. Look at all the examples of players coming back from such surgery to prove that point.

I agree with Sheens' selection of Moltzen at fullback and I hope he stays there. McKinnon is not the same player he was, Brown is good but doesn't have the same attacking options that Moltzen does and I think Meaney only looks like an average player in first grade. With Moltzen we have a ballplaying fullback with pace and an excellent kicking game.

I think of the three halfbacks in contention for a first grade spot, Moltzen is the most able at fullback. I think the potential of having Farah, Lui/Miller, Marshall and Moltzen is better than anything we have seen at this club (including 2005). It will take time to workout the best way to utilise these players but it will work in the end because all the players are smart and creative footballers who play an attacking brand.

The weakness of Moltzen under the high ball and against the kick is a problem, but I believe he has the potential to improve in these areas. I think that bomb took an incredibly unlucky bounce for him last night. He is still an inexperienced player and will still make many mistakes.

The argument that he should develop in state league is shortsighted. There is a very large gap between top grade and state cup, I personally don't want him recovering from his knee injury in state league and getting used to the slower pace only to bring him into top grade and endure the period of time it would then take him to catch up to the pace of top grade. Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

People on here need to think about more then just one game at a time. Once again Sheens and team selections come up as an issue. Where was this discussion last week when he virtually did the EXACT SAME THING?
Once again the same three issues come up. Here is why the criticisms of Sheens are wrong:
1.Meaney needs to be on the bench because we need a back in case of injuries. There have been injuries to the backs in almost every game this year.
2\. We play and interchange small forwards with big front rowers because THAT IS OUR STYLE OF PLAY. That is why we play with such dexterity and speed. You all want to change this??? I hope not.
3\. Last night was a bad performance. how many of our performances have been at that level? Very few. Last night is evidence of how good a side we are and how well coached we are. Even with 8 first graders or so out, even when we are playing badly, even when we are playing away, even when the ref calls every god damn knock on by them in the play the ball a penalty against us and even up against a strong and desperate team we still only lost the game by a try in the final minute and were bloody unlucky not to win. AND YOU ARE ALL COMPLAINING? Cop the painful loss but put it in perspective.

Having played fullback from under 12 for 90% of all games I played the golden rule is YOU NEVER LET THE BALL BOUNCE Even if he dropped it it would of more than likely gone over dead ball . And Prince and every other kicker in the NRL will smell blood in the water every game . He is not a fullback end of story
 
I think McKinnon is the best option for fullback mainly cause he is 1…
 
@happy tiger said:
Having played fullback from under 12 for 90% of all games I played the golden rule is YOU NEVER LET THE BALL BOUNCE Even if he dropped it it would of more than likely gone over dead ball . And Prince and every other kicker in the NRL will smell blood in the water every game . He is not a fullback end of story

You don't judge players based on one mistake. You don't judge inexperienced players for weaknesses in their game. He has some positional problems at fullback but he can learn to play there.

Do you drop Benji Marshall in 2005 because of his frailty in defense? Or do you play him in first grade and develop that aspect of his game. Moltzen has too many intagibles that can't be learnt to drop him for a bad game. He is a very good player returning from serious injury who will be a very good fullback.
 
Let him learn in State Cup.

But of course that means likely losing an actual fullback in Mullaney from the club.

Moltzen has NEVER put his body on the line to challenge for a high ball or bouncing ball at fullback. That is a problem he has not fixed since he first took the field at fullback for the NYC side.

With Lui in the side we have 3 playmakers in Lui, Farah and Marshall. A guy is needed at fullback who will direct the defence, nut up and put it on the line for any loose ball and support up the ruck.
 
@watersider said:
@happy tiger said:
Having played fullback from under 12 for 90% of all games I played the golden rule is YOU NEVER LET THE BALL BOUNCE Even if he dropped it it would of more than likely gone over dead ball . And Prince and every other kicker in the NRL will smell blood in the water every game . He is not a fullback end of story

You don't judge players based on one mistake. You don't judge inexperienced players for weaknesses in their game. He has some positional problems at fullback but he can learn to play there.

Do you drop Benji Marshall in 2005 because of his frailty in defense? Or do you play him in first grade and develop that aspect of his game. Moltzen has too many intagibles that can't be learnt to drop him for a bad game. He is a very good player returning from serious injury who will be a very good fullback.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that we will lose 90% of the games we play if Moltzen is fullback as every half or five eight will bomb him mercilessly . As a fullback you need to make lots of judgement calls and in my opinion he rarely takes the right option and when he gets it wrong we pay the ultimate price . And with the injury problems we have we can't afford to give away points . Fine if want to make him into a fullback send him back to NSW cup for 3 months to see how it goes but you can't learn on the job at this level sorry .
 
@watersider said:
The weakness of Moltzen under the high ball and against the kick is a problem, but I believe he has the potential to improve in these areas. I think that bomb took an incredibly unlucky bounce for him last night. He is still an inexperienced player and will still make many mistakes.

Its a problem alright. I wonder how many games we should be prepared to sacrifice whilst Moltz undertakes this 'on the job training'?

Whether it was an unlucky bounce or not (and I saw nothing unforseeable in what happened) he should never have let it bounce.
 
I think players can and do learn on the job in the NRL. The problem with saying he should learn to play fullback in state cup is that playing fullback in state cup isn't like playing fullback in the NRL. So, what's the point? Meaney has had plenty of experience at fullback prior to NRL but putting him in NRL exposes him to a whole new set of requirements.

You judge a players aptitude to play a position based on their skill set. Moltzen is a very talented player. I agree that his positional play is and has been a problem but he has had too little time to develop in that position. If you give him a season and say at the end of that season that he hasn't improved then you can start to argue that he isn't a capable fullback. Brown took a while until he started to look very good at fullback last year.

You are all judging Moltzen on a few games and you are not considering the fact that he is coming back from injury and needs to get timing and confidence back. You don't get those things back by putting him in state cup.
 
@smeghead said:
Let him learn in State Cup.

But of course that means likely losing an actual fullback in Mullaney from the club.

Moltzen has NEVER put his body on the line to challenge for a high ball or bouncing ball at fullback. That is a problem he has not fixed since he first took the field at fullback for the NYC side.]
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I remember a game last season, or 2009 where Moltzen took a huge bomb and got creamed!
 
@biggest tigers fan said:
i have a feeling this thread was started by tim sheens

…..or Mrs Moltzen.

I love how the OP says everyone forgets he's coming back from injury......thats a pretty weak argument assuming everyone elses p-o-v to make your own stronger.
 
@innsaneink said:
I love how the OP says everyone forgets he's coming back from injury…...thats a pretty weak argument assuming everyone elses p-o-v to make your own stronger.

If people haven't forgotten that he is coming back from injury then why is he being criticised? People say he is down on confidence, that he isn't putting his body on the line and that he is being caught out of position. These are the exact things that players coming back from injury face. So, it is a valid point to remind people who criticise a player coming back from injury that those problems are simply symptomatic of a player coming back from injury. Players coming back from injury are always slower and more hesitant then other players on the field.

Brett Hodgson in his final year at Parramatta was a perfect example of a player recovering from injury. He was a shell of his former self that season but came back the next season with us as good as ever.
 
Yeah fair enough…as long as its the same people.

Its been six weeks though and you can only use that argument for so long, especially when your in a starting crucial posiotion
personally Im no fan of his at fullback, he is a half imo, behind Lui but in front of the new kid who's name ive forgotten.

Dunno why he's at fullback, we have brown can cover there, or meaney, surely someone can cover in the centres for brown..daniella/lawrence
 
Geez McKinnon played awesome against Souths, he must have been close to playing against the Titans.

Moltzen is no more a fullback than Galloway is, you wouldn't move him there and expect him to become a great 1.

Fullback is not Moltzens go!
 
@innsaneink said:
Its been six weeks though and you can only use that argument for so long, especially when your in a starting crucial posiotion
personally Im no fan of his at fullback, he is a half imo, behind Lui but in front of the new kid who's name ive forgotten.

Dunno why he's at fullback, we have brown can cover there, or meaney, surely someone can cover in the centres for brown..daniella/lawrence

I agree that you can only defend him as a recovering player for so long. But with serious injuries it does take a long time to recover. It has been six matches but I believe he has only played three or four full matches of those six. He has been chosen because of all the players available at the club he has the best potential at fullback. That is because of his speed, passing, kicking game and awareness.

Going back to Hodgson again, he was dropped at Parramatta and forgotten. Putting him back in State cup did nothing for his recovery. He looked like a slow, hesitant and frail player in both attack and defense with no sign of his acceleration or support play. Yet he would go on to have an excellent career with us. Moltzen is much younger then Hodgson was and even if it takes most of this season for him to get in good form I think the long term benefits would be worth the furstration.

That's why the criticism of his form now is short sighted and why I think it is worth criticising those who want everything peachy-keen straight away, as if other players coming into the league and coming back from injury haven't endured the same difficult spell we are seeing from Moltzen.
 
I could be wrong but didn't Moltz throw the ball that put Tuiaki in a career ending tackle?… Because of his hesitance to return the ball?
 
@helmesy said:
Moltzen is no more a fullback than Galloway is, you wouldn't move him there and expect him to become a great 1.

You've said nothing about why you think he isn't a fullback in this post and that is typical of many posts on here saying he isn't a fullback.

Yes he had a bad game yesterday but so did Benji Marshall. Does Marshall's game on Friday prove he isn't a 5/8? Do people not see that Moltzen is a talented footballer? Your arguments are all too shortsighted.
 
@batboy said:
I could be wrong but didn't Moltz throw the ball that put Tuiaki in a career ending tackle?… Because of his hesitance to return the ball?

good, he's now responsible for ending tuaki's career. Anything else we can blame him for? Fullbacks passing the ball wide is something Sheens must encourage because every fullback we have had since Sheens has been at the club has looked to push the ball wide. It often leads to line breaks and tries. I think its a good thing.
 
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