Moltzen is the best option at fullback and stop whinging

Admire your passion watersider, but as a fullback, Moltzen sucks to be brutally blunt. Is he a good player? Yes, on his day when in form, he's certainly a good player, but not at fullback. Why? As has been mentioned by numerous posters, Moltzen does not put a team on the front foot when bringing the ball back on kick returns. Moltzen will generally crab walk and try to link with his closest winger, losing precious time to get moving forward.

Take a look at David Mead last night. Far from the biggest player in the NRL and far from the classiest, but look at the way he brought the ball back last night. In a terrible Titans team he had no dramas hitting the Tigers at full pace, didn't matter who was down there lining him up, he ran it straight and hard and that's how it should be. Hell, if Utai was 3 or 4 inches taller I'd put him at fullback because he brings the ball back hard.

All Moltzen offers is decent support play. His kicking game has never been utilised to it's potential in FG and his ballplaying ability is not really happening this season because he is clearly lacking in confidence in taking the line on and creating uncertainty in the opposition defence.

It's natural he is going to take some time to get back to top form, but at the moment, he's borderline on being a liability out there and at this point in time, if the Tigers had all of their backline players fully fit, I can't say I'd have Moltzen in the top 17 based on current form.

I do know this, if he doesn't pick up soon, he'll be back on the bench or in State Cup because Lui is only a couple of weeks away and McKinnon was in good form at fullback before his hammy played up again.
 
Possibility that Moltz will play:

1.FB when Mckinnons contract ends (32%)
2.HB with either Lui or Killer used off the bench (26%)
3.Utility player off the bench (26%)
4\. Slot into centre if Ayshford is shifted (16%)
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The reaction on peoples faces when he plays FB, scores a try, earns MOM againts Broncos next week…

....PRICELESS!

For everything else theres Mastercard! Lets use it & buy a damn effin FB!
 
@watersider said:
@Tigerdave said:
Continously making changes in the halves spot does not do the team any good.

Given our injuries, this is not the time to be experimenting with player positions.

I actually agree. I'd much rather they try to keep the side as consistent as possible.
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@watersider said:
I'm arguing that we be patient, that we give Moltzen a chance at fullback and if we do that I think we'll see another top quality first grader.
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You agree that given our injuries it's not the right time to be experimenting, but then in the final paragraph you want Moltzen to be given a chance….. so which is it?

Now is not the time to be giving a player a chance in a position he is not used to. This horse has been flogged to death in the past it's time to stop it, especially now given our injuries.

Moltzen should have been left in the halfback spot where he is best at, not learning how to play fullback while we have a 3rd of the side out due to injury.

@watersider said:
He never takes the conservative option and I think its brave to do what he is doing and I support his approach.
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We don't need brave, we need level headed.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

@watersider said:
I'm arguing that we be patient
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And it's a poor argument given our current circumstances with injuries. Again I state, it would have been a lot smarter, and better for Moltzen I might add, to allow him some match fitness for starters and learning the trade in an easier environment in State Cup rather than throwing him in at the deep end in first grade, especially in a side riddled with injuries.

Lui is out injured, we needed another halfback, someone with some experience, oh look we have Moltzen who has served us well in that position. He plays there last week, our attack was fairly nice, we had direction, players knew what was what. It is not brave, it is not smart to then move said player to a position he is not very used to, has not done well in before in a side already disrupted.

Given that we have Brown, I see no reason what so ever to continue throwing Moltzen in at fullback, he's far more talented and appears to be far more comfortable in the halfback spot, so he should be left there. He's been out for a year and people want to shove him in a spot where he's quite clearly out of his depth.
 
@watersider said:
@barra said:
Yes, Moltzen is a talented footballer and yes he is worth perservering with - and perhaps at fullback - but not in 1st grade right now, and not at the risk of the success of the team and him as a developing player.

If you think that he is worth persevering with you'd be crazy to drop him to state league where he will only learn bad habits. Which half or fullback has improved from playing in the state league?
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Mate I never said I want him dropped to State, simply that with the current injuries and instability it is no good to him or the team to be playing him at fullback right now. Keeping him at half back offers some stability because there is minimal shuffling of other players and he goes quite well there.

Perhaps if everyone else except Mackinnon was fit he could be used at fullback but not right now. Right now we should be doing all we can to scrape together some wins, not experimenting.
 
Ive been an advocate for Moltz at fullback. Not because i think he's done well there in the past, its for the potential i see. I agree with everyones assessments of him as a fullback, but ive held in there because i believe if he doesnt succeed at number one, then he will be lost to the Tigers. He's behind Lui at 7, behind Marshall at 6, so that leaves fullback. He istn a centre at all.

I still havent given up hope, and i dont think i will until i see Tim Moltzen wearing the number 6 for another club, but im certainly losing confidence, I think the main problem is that Moltz doesnt WANT to be a fullback.

The time is coming where he either grabs the number one, or moves on to another club to play his best position of 5/8
 
@willow said:
Admire your passion watersider, but as a fullback, Moltzen sucks to be brutally blunt. Is he a good player? Yes, on his day when in form, he's certainly a good player, but not at fullback. Why? As has been mentioned by numerous posters, Moltzen does not put a team on the front foot when bringing the ball back on kick returns. Moltzen will generally crab walk and try to link with his closest winger, losing precious time to get moving forward.

Take a look at David Mead last night. Far from the biggest player in the NRL and far from the classiest, but look at the way he brought the ball back last night. In a terrible Titans team he had no dramas hitting the Tigers at full pace, didn't matter who was down there lining him up, he ran it straight and hard and that's how it should be. Hell, if Utai was 3 or 4 inches taller I'd put him at fullback because he brings the ball back hard.

All Moltzen offers is decent support play. His kicking game has never been utilised to it's potential in FG and his ballplaying ability is not really happening this season because he is clearly lacking in confidence in taking the line on and creating uncertainty in the opposition defence.
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Thank you willow, getting in now because I think Moltzen's gonna have a terrific season and I hope it will be at fullback. There will be a lot more people later on talking about how good a fullback he is.

David Mead was great last night. I loved the way Karmichael Hunt used to take the ball up. But, was Hodgson a powerful returner of the ball? No, he often got pushed back onto his back and he often went sideways looking for support. Different players have different attributes and I think Moltzen is a much better overall player then Mead. Hard running on the return is only one of many attributes. I think Moltzen isn't yet as good as he will be at fullback, but I think he is valuable to the side anyway.

I see it like Todd Carney at the Roosters last year. I agree that halfback is Moltzen's best position but the team needs mandate he play fullback. If we purchased Carney this year where would you play him? Do you leave him at #14 because Lui and Marshall are the established halves or do you include him at fullback and develop him in that position? Do you drop Lui for Carney and lose an extra playmaker in the side? You don't want to drop Lui because he is a very promising player and developed very well last year and so you need to find a way to include all players.

Now, Carney isn't as good under the high ball as Minichello, and he wasn't as good at returning the ball but he was put there because of what he offers in attack. The same goes for Moltzen. We don't have the same room or flexibility in our side that Roosters did last year to move Moltzen back into the halves. Lui and Marshall are simply too good. The team is better if it has both Moltzen and one of the other halves in the side.

So, I think you play him at fullback and work on the weaknesses he has at fullback because for the team to have that extra playmaker and extra speed and extra kicking game is invaluable. No other player in the squad can offer what Moltzen can at fullback.
 
@tig_prmz said:
There are 17 players in the side. What you are saying is, you want 16 of those players to adjust to the way Moltzen plays instead of picking the No.1 who adjusts to the style of play the other 16 have played in?
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You must have missed what I wrote. I said that you adjust to the players you have and you adjust the players to the system you create. So, You put Marshall in at 5/8 and you work out the system that works best for the team. Same goes for Moltzen, you try to work the side to the strengths of all players as a collective.

When you have new players come into a side there is a period of adjustment, that is why new players in new teams take time to start looking good. I think that is why there is a lack of coherence in our side at the moment. We've got so many injuries and new combinations that its hard for the team and the players to figure out how to play to everyone's strength. I think that sort of analysis is pretty basic and I'm sure most would agree with what I'm saying. It is not revolutionary.
 
I am not talking about Moltzen specifically. I am talking about this statement.

@watersider said:
Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the **team adjust to the new role in the team.**
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It doesn't make sense to me lol
 
@watersider said:
@willow said:
Admire your passion watersider, but as a fullback, Moltzen sucks to be brutally blunt. Is he a good player? Yes, on his day when in form, he's certainly a good player, but not at fullback. Why? As has been mentioned by numerous posters, Moltzen does not put a team on the front foot when bringing the ball back on kick returns. Moltzen will generally crab walk and try to link with his closest winger, losing precious time to get moving forward.

Take a look at David Mead last night. Far from the biggest player in the NRL and far from the classiest, but look at the way he brought the ball back last night. In a terrible Titans team he had no dramas hitting the Tigers at full pace, didn't matter who was down there lining him up, he ran it straight and hard and that's how it should be. Hell, if Utai was 3 or 4 inches taller I'd put him at fullback because he brings the ball back hard.

All Moltzen offers is decent support play. His kicking game has never been utilised to it's potential in FG and his ballplaying ability is not really happening this season because he is clearly lacking in confidence in taking the line on and creating uncertainty in the opposition defence.

Thank you willow, getting in now because I think Moltzen's gonna have a terrific season and I hope it will be at fullback. There will be a lot more people later on talking about how good a fullback he is.

David Mead was great last night. I loved the way Karmichael Hunt used to take the ball up. But, was Hodgson a powerful returner of the ball? No, he often got pushed back onto his back and he often went sideways looking for support. Different players have different attributes and I think Moltzen is a much better overall player then Mead. Hard running on the return is only one of many attributes. I think Moltzen isn't yet as good as he will be at fullback, but I think he is valuable to the side anyway.

I see it like Todd Carney at the Roosters last year. I agree that halfback is Moltzen's best position but the team needs mandate he play fullback. If we purchased Carney this year where would you play him? Do you leave him at #14 because Lui and Marshall are the established halves or do you include him at fullback and develop him in that position? Do you drop Lui for Carney and lose an extra playmaker in the side? You don't want to drop Lui because he is a very promising player and developed very well last year and so you need to find a way to include all players.

Now, Carney isn't as good under the high ball as Minichello, and he wasn't as good at returning the ball but he was put there because of what he offers in attack. The same goes for Moltzen. We don't have the same room or flexibility in our side that Roosters did last year to move Moltzen back into the halves. Lui and Marshall are simply too good. The team is better if it has both Moltzen and one of the other halves in the side.

So, I think you play him at fullback and work on the weaknesses he has at fullback because for the team to have that extra playmaker and extra speed and extra kicking game is invaluable. No other player in the squad can offer what Moltzen can at fullback.
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Time may be Moltzen's biggest issue at the moment though, in that Lui will be back in a few weeks, not sure about McKinnon, but he was starting to look quite good at fullback and showing his worth with his support play and runs up the middle of the field which were effective. That's the big weakness with Tim at the moment, he's not taking the line on which a fullback needs to do, whether it be in kick returns or chiming in the backline (good fullbacks obviously do both very well).

If McKinnon's injury is only short term, then we won't see Moltzen at fullback. Personally I don't believe it will ever be Moltzen's best position as he is not a hard runner of the football, and just doesn't get the team on the front foot when bringing the ball back.
 
I understand coming back from injury & lacking confidence BUT i feel Moltz lacks confidence in general & not just from injury. Sorry he's not a fullback & he has proved it before. Mc Kinnon has been outstanding, he is everywhere he should be & more. Why write him off??? As soon as Moltz stepped back to halves Fri. night his game & confidence picked up. Mitch has been Fullback, Wing & Centre for us last season, i think he's the best option while McKinnon out. I'm willing to give ANY Tiger player a fair go & i see Moltz getting better quicker at Halves with Benj,(although i'll be happy when Lui back). Our boys in general just had one of those nights. (CONGRATS to Heighno for getting the two biggest actors in the Titans/NRL).
 
This thread is absolutely laughable.

This idea that Moltzen is somehow so good that he can't be left out of the side, and that he should be played in a critical position like fullback is pathetic.

Firstly, he is not so good that we should have him play a key position that he is absolutely diabolical at. Reading some of the comments I have read about Moltzen on here over the past couple of months, you would think he is Andrew Johns and Peter Sterling rolled into one - wake up people, he is not that good. For some reason he gets his tyres pumped up after having done very little.

Secondly to say he is our best option at fullback is just…I have no words. Wade McKinnon is s superior fullback to Moltzen in all areas except speed. Mitch Brown is superior to Moltzen in all areas fullstop. Playing a player at fullback who is scared of contact, who can't tackle, who can't jump to catch bombs, who returns the football like he is strolling on a Sunday afternoon in the park and who offers zero support play is just pathetic. McKinnon may be slow but watch him when we are on the attack, and he is always sniffing around the ruck for an offload. The bagging he has copped this year has been plain wrong - he made over 200 metres against the Roosters and was our best player that day, and yet people were calling for Moltzen to play fullback instead. LOL.

Thirdly, fullback is not a position where you can just throw someone in and expect them to learn. McKinnon and Brown are natural fullbacks. Moltzen is not. It's as simple as that.
 
Watersider you must be a SHEENS plant.

What planet are you living on???

Both Brown and McKinnon are a zillion times better at fullback.

This thread is obviously a propaganda campaign to protect the stupid decisions that imbecile of a coach makes.

Wayersider have problems my friend.

I am always highly suspicious of forum members who are new or have low postings coming out with outlandish arguments to support the ridiculous .
 
@Balmain Bug said:
Watersider you must be a SHEENS plant.

What planet are you living on???

Both Brown and McKinnon are a zillion times better at fullback.

This thread is obviously a propaganda campaign to protect the stupid decisions that imbecile of a coach makes.

Wayersider have problems my friend.

**I am always highly suspicious of forum members who are new or have low postings coming out with outlandish arguments to support the ridiculous** .
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Same as forum members with a high post count using near on every single post to lay in the slipper as they have an agenda.

You'd fair dinkum blame him for global warming if you could.
 
THE most overrated player in this team bar none. Anyone who thinks that he can play fullback has not idea of what makes a good fullback. Check out Lockyer when he first started playing. Moltzen is not good enough to tie his football laces. Give me a break. Get off the kool-aid and get real. We need a natural fullback to replace Mckinnon, not a Sheen's favourite so he can play first grade to the detriment of the team.

Why Sheen's continually ignores the talents of Mullaney is one to the mysteries of our time. The way things are going we could lose all three. Only one would be missed.
 
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