Moltzen Staying Or Going

[T-REXX]

As far as in aware tigers said when moltz signed they were not happy

They bit their tongue and still said nothing till now. I'm still yet to hear them officially say otherwise. Tigers have been playing this very smart and letting doust use the media. What the tele wrote the other day was BS. All we have said is we will discuss but we havnt given formal approval. Simple.
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[Kul]

yep, statements from the club and dragons say that too
will believe that before the terrorcrap

some peeps here seem to jumping the gun and drawing conclusions far too early

 

[Swordy]

How come it was ok for Gasnier to change his mind about playing after signing a contract and the Dragons having to let Costigan and Smith go, yet its not ok for Tim to have a change of heart? I know if I was a Dragons player who I would be dirtier on.

People change their minds all the time, I hate my job 1 day and the next day its fine. Thats life.

Your missing it…..the Tigers changed their mind
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I wonder if Gibbs has mates still in our team…...

Theres something very very wrong in all of this

So your solution is?…...........

Didnt say I had a solution, do I need a solution to offer my POV.
Club politics and coaches pets have been around as long as the game

Not suggesting for one minute you had a solution. Just thought you had a point of view and an opinion the same as everyone else, so you might have had a solution, or a point of view about how it could have been better handled for both Moltzen AND Gibbs.

 

[innsaneink]

The club gave Moltzen permission to talk to other clubs, explore his options.
Why do that when he was already contracted if they werent thinking of release?
Now theyre holding on to the release, enforcing the contract

Changed their mind.

 

[T-REXX]

Your 100% right Ink. Talk only. Not sign. The tigers have said they were not told of the signing and saints never asked what the conditions were of the release..

So yes your right on that one.

But tigers are still in their right to knock the release back.
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[innsaneink]

How come it was ok for Gasnier to change his mind about playing after signing a contract and the Dragons having to let Costigan and Smith go, yet its not ok for Tim to have a change of heart? I know if I was a Dragons player who I would be dirtier on.

People change their minds all the time, I hate my job 1 day and the next day its fine. Thats life.

Your missing it…..the Tigers changed their mind
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I wonder if Gibbs has mates still in our team…...

Theres something very very wrong in all of this

So your solution is?…...........

Didnt say I had a solution, do I need a solution to offer my POV.
Club politics and coaches pets have been around as long as the game

Not suggesting for one minute you had a solution. Just thought you had a point of view and an opinion the same as everyone else, so you might have had a solution, or a point of view about how it could have been better handled for both Moltzen AND Gibbs.

Its just the hypocrisy i see in the article, how he bawled his eyes out after what he thought was his last game, leaving his mates etc etc….I dont see this is relevant when it is a factor in all players that leave clubs...Gibbs had been here far longer, a local junior, given way more service, played a part in the premiership, looking at the highly rare feat of a decade at one NRL club.....but if you cry and are sad your leaving your mates it seems thats worth more. pffft :unamused:
I dont feel sorry for Moltz, I feel sorry for Gibbs

 

[innsaneink]

Your 100% right Ink. Talk only. Not sign. The tigers have said they were not told of the signing and saints never asked what the conditions were of the release..

So yes your right on that one.

But tigers are still in their right to knock the release back.
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Kul needs it explained.
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….the Tigers changed their mind.

They did?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Moltzen sounds like a tosser to me. Unhappy cause he wasnt playing in the position he wanted mid year, caught up in all the other players leaving/ deserting a sinking ship. Then realizing, after everyone starts playing well, that he wants to stay. Seems like a fairweather type of player rather than a committed tiger. Thoughts?

I agree.

Some of his efforts on the field this year were also of similar vein. Downhill skier.

 

[Kul]

The club gave Moltzen permission to talk to other clubs, explore his options.
Why do that when he was already contracted if they werent thinking of release?
Now theyre holding on to the release, enforcing the contract

Changed their mind.

Your argument is confused Ink and you answer your own question

The club gave Moltzen permission to talk to other clubs, explore his options.
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Now theyre holding on to the release, enforcing the contract

Just because they let a player look around doesn't mean that they'll let him go. At the end of the day they are still in a contract with Tim Moltzen and have every right to see it out.

You seem to think that telling a player that they can explore their options instantly means that they are released from their contact as soon as they find a new gig. No, that's not how it work dude. Going off the statements issued so far, WT have done nothing wrong or illegal here so I fail to see what the problem is.

 

[cnx_tigers]

MOLTZEN SPEAKS

p://[www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l…014-1lp4j.html](http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/l…014-1lp4j.html)
Moltzen wants to roll again with Tigers
Glenn Jackson
October 15, 2011

TIM MOLTZEN returned from the bright lights of Las Vegas yesterday to darkness surrounding his NRL future. But he wanted to make one thing clear: ''I want to stay with the Tigers.''

Breaking his silence on the contract stand-off between Wests Tigers and St George Illawarra, Moltzen was adamant yesterday that he wanted to remain with his present club. However, he admitted he had been disappointed a stalemate had occurred between the Tigers and the Dragons, who both have him on their rosters for next year.

''When I thought that I was going to be going [to the Dragons], I thought it was the right thing at that time,'' Moltzen said. ''I wasn't playing good footy, I wasn't enjoying myself. I thought I was going to be losing mates. ''Then things have turned full circle. I bawled my eyes out after my last game because I thought that was my last game for the Tigers. I thought that was it for me, that group of people.

''But I think that's all changed for me now. I'd love to stay at the Tigers. I don't mean to cause any harm by what has happened. I didn't want to upset the Dragons fans or the club.''

Moltzen has been the subject of a bitter tug-of-war between the two clubs, but the 23-year-old had inadvertently escaped the frenzy, travelling to Las Vegas for a pre-arranged end-of-season trip with Tigers teammates including Beau Ryan and Lote Tuqiri.

Moltzen had to read on the internet about the feud between the clubs over his future, and had no control over the situation.

''I'm disappointed the way it's all been played out in the media,'' Moltzen said. ''I'm obviously disappointed that the clubs happen to be in the position they're in, arguing. I definitely didn't want it to play out the way it has and get to where it's got.''

Moltzen had been led to believe he would be better served moving on from the Tigers next year, and did so knowing that the futures of close friends Ryan and Chris Heighington were also in the air. After he produced a wonderful back-end of the season, and with Heighington and Ryan staying with the club, he was comfortable when Tigers officials told him they would not release him to take up his three-year deal with the Dragons. While he had signed that deal, the Tigers had not given an official release.

The case is now headed for the NRL, with salary cap auditor Ian Schubert to make a determination on which club has the rights over Moltzen. The player hopes he does not become a pawn and his own wishes are taken into account.

''I was hopeful that it could be sorted out just among the clubs, and for it not have to become a war of words. I never meant to lead them in the wrong direction, or mislead them with what I was saying. ''But if the Tigers don't want to release me, they want to hold onto me, it's their decision, and it's not one I'm uncomfortable with at all. I'd be happy to stay there, close to my family and friends, and all my really good mates.

''There's probably not too many supporters out there at the moment, but I know I've got my family and friends. ''We'll just have to see how it plays out. I hope it works out all right. I'd love to stay at the Tigers and I hope the Dragons can accept that and move on, and we can put it behind us. I don't want it to keep dragging out, and I don't think they do either.''

 

[innsaneink]

The club gave Moltzen permission to talk to other clubs, explore his options.
Why do that when he was already contracted if they werent thinking of release?
Now theyre holding on to the release, enforcing the contract

Changed their mind.

Your argument is confused Ink and you answer your own question

The club gave Moltzen permission to talk to other clubs, explore his options.
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Now theyre holding on to the release, enforcing the contract

Just because they let a player look around doesn't mean that they'll let him go. At the end of the day they are still in a contract with Tim Moltzen and have every right to see it out.

You seem to think that telling a player that they can explore their options instantly means that they are released from their contact as soon as they find a new gig. No, that's not how it work dude. Going off the statements issued so far, WT have done nothing wrong or illegal here so I fail to see what the problem is.

Didnt say they did anything wrong or illegal, I said they changed their mind.
That is clear to everyone with an open mind.
Why did they give permission to see what he can find if they didnt want to release him?
Why did they not do this with Lawrence Ellis Marshall farah?

 

[Blackandwhite]

Didnt say they did anything wrong or illegal, I said they changed their mind.
That is clear to everyone with an open mind.
Why did they give permission to see what he can find if they didnt want to release him?
Why did they not do this with Lawrence Ellis Marshall farah?

Yes they changed their minds..they being Sheens..Yes we know that.
Moltzen and Gibbs are both replaceable.
Gibbs is covered by a couple of guys Groat and BMM who both combined are on 1/2 the wage Gibbs was on.

Sheens told Moltzen and McKinnon who both had a year left to look elsewhere because Sheens thought they had the fullback position covered for the future. Guess what …that didn't happen. It probably will happen but it wont be known till next year...Then Timmy boy its bye bye...should have taken that St.George contract when you had the chance.

Lawrence Ellis Marshall and Farah are not easily replaceable...Wests Tigers don't have better or potentially better players to cover their positions, so the free to look elsewhere line isn't an option.

 

[Demonborger]

Didnt say they did anything wrong or illegal, I said they changed their mind.
That is clear to everyone with an open mind.
Why did they give permission to see what he can find if they didnt want to release him?
Why did they not do this with Lawrence Ellis Marshall farah?

Yes they changed their minds..they being Sheens..Yes we know that.
Moltzen and Gibbs are both replaceable.
Gibbs is covered by a couple of guys Groat and BMM who both combined are on 1/2 the wage Gibbs was on.

Sheens told Moltzen and McKinnon who both had a year left to look elsewhere because Sheens **thought they had the fullback position covered for the future. Guess what …that didn't happen. It probably will happen but it wont be known till next year...**Then Timmy boy its bye bye...should have taken that St.George contract when you had the chance.

Lawrence Ellis Marshall and Farah are not easily replaceable...Wests Tigers don't have better or potentially better players to cover their positions, so the free to look elsewhere line isn't an option.

Another mention of the secret fullback, it is Dugan they are after?

 

[innsaneink]

Didnt say they did anything wrong or illegal, I said they changed their mind.
That is clear to everyone with an open mind.
Why did they give permission to see what he can find if they didnt want to release him?
Why did they not do this with Lawrence Ellis Marshall farah?

Yes they changed their minds..they being Sheens..Yes we know that.
Moltzen and Gibbs are both replaceable.
Gibbs is covered by a couple of guys Groat and BMM who both combined are on 1/2 the wage Gibbs was on.

Sheens told Moltzen and McKinnon who both had a year left to look elsewhere because Sheens thought they had the fullback position covered for the future. Guess what …that didn't happen. It probably will happen but it wont be known till next year...Then Timmy boy its bye bye...should have taken that St.George contract when you had the chance.

Lawrence Ellis Marshall and Farah are not easily replaceable...Wests Tigers don't have better or potentially better players to cover their positions, so the free to look elsewhere line isn't an option.

Im aware of this….im making a point to kul who seems to think Humpty or Sheens didnt change their mind

 

[king_sirro]

Something id like to know but im sure will never be answered…........we signed the likes of Reddy and Humble, and im curious to know if the Tigers lead these 2 guys to believe that Moltzen wont be with us, and was that a big reason for them signing? I mean both can play fullback, and both may have been lead to believe the Tigers current fullback wont be there, leaving them with a great opportunity. I wonder how they feel about all this. Legally they wouldnt have a leg to stand on, but id be filthy if i was them and want out

 

[Swordy]

Why tell a player to look around? Simple really. He is on 100K, and his manager says " I want an upgrade because my man is worth 200K elsewhere".
Tigers reply is " Well, we have him for another year on 100K. We wont be paying 200K for him. If you can get more, then look around and see what you come up with. We might not need him. Good luck".

Two options then happen. He looks elsewhere and gets his money AND the club is happy for him to go, or he doesn't and comes crawling back, still with a year to run on what he is being payed and the club wins the bluff contest.

In this case, he got shopped around by his manager, never wanted to go, thought the Tigers were punting him because they were punting everyone else, so in his mind he has probably accepted that he has to go. Never wanted to in the first place, would much rather have stayed, but is now in that position.

Then when the time comes, they do need him, have a rock solid year to go on the contract. He really didn't want to go so he is happy to stay, and the club decide to keep him.

I'm not sure it is all his fault. Unfortunate yes, all his fault, No.

As for Gibbsy? I would have liked him to stay too, but he is closer to 30 than 20, has a number of injuries that could play havoc with his latter years, and probably got offered way more to go, so he is happier to press and get the biscuits! Good luck to him…

Everyone wants to be a one club player, local junior, part of the furniture. Gibbsy could have stayed, had a contract AND would have got payed his entitlements. He chose to look elsewhere and made the ultimate decision to move on. If he wanted to stay, he could have. The contract was there, Just not for the money he wanted and that's fair enough!

 

[innsaneink]

Why tell a player to look around? Simple really. He is on 100K, and his manager says " I want an upgrade because my man is worth 200K elsewhere".
Tigers reply is " Well, we have him for another year on 100K. We wont be paying 200K for him. If you can get more, then look around and see what you come up with. We might not need him. Good luck".

Two options then happen. He looks elsewhere and gets his money AND the club is happy for him to go, or he doesn't and comes crawling back, still with a year to run on what he is being payed and the club wins the bluff contest.

In this case, he got shopped around by his manager, never wanted to go, thought the Tigers were punting him because they were punting everyone else, so in his mind he has probably accepted that he has to go. Never wanted to in the first place, would much rather have stayed, but is now in that position.

Crunch time

Then when the time comes, they do need him, have a rock solid year to go on the contract. He really didn't want to go so he is happy to stay, and the club decide to keep him.
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I'm not sure it is all his fault. Unfortunate yes, all his fault, No.
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As for Gibbsy? I would have liked him to stay too, but he is closer to 30 than 20, has a number of injuries that could play havoc with his latter years, and probably got offered way more to go, so he is happier to press and get the biscuits! Good luck to him…
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Everyone wants to be a one club player, local junior, part of the furniture. Gibbsy could have stayed, had a contract AND would have got payed his entitlements. He chose to look elsewhere and made the ultimate decision to move on. If he wanted to stay, he could have. The contract was there, Just not for the money he wanted and that's fair enough!

Good post swordy...great post, crunch time imo is when things went pear shaped
I'm guessing Humpty got peeved big time at Dousts announcement on our game day with parra and decided to clutch his cards closer to his chest....hence the delay with the deeds of realease, the Lui thing a mere coincidence but we are probably lucky he did what he did.

I wonder if Humpty did give tauber his word....and I wonder what the difference was in Moltzs two contracts?

 

[philgood]

IF Lui wasnt in danger of being cut by the tigers, Moltzen would have been off to the Dragons already. The Lui saga is the only reason the Tigers have had a change in heart. Plain and simple

 

[innsaneink]

IF Lui wasnt in danger of being cut by the tigers, Moltzen would have been off to the Dragons already. The Lui saga is the only reason the Tigers have had a change in heart. Plain and simple

Theres about 3 months in between when Moltzen first is told to look around and Lui's mad monday exploits

 

[happy_tiger]

IF Lui wasnt in danger of being cut by the tigers, Moltzen would have been off to the Dragons already. The Lui saga is the only reason the Tigers have had a change in heart. Plain and simple

Theres about 3 months in between when Moltzen first is told to look around and Lui's mad monday exploits

Has anyone just thought that after his last game with us he had a change of heart and didn't want to leave
(Well thats what he said ,gotta take the guy by his word until proven otherwise) and the Tigers knew with no Dwyer and what was left in the cap they could still retain him .Sounds feasible to me