Moltzen's fullback hopes given a boost

[tiger05]

hybrid you talk about the attributes a good half should possess and then list all the things Lui doesn't do.
He doesn't direct the team around the park ,can't tackle , makes consistent bumbling errors and has . at best , an inconsistent kicking game.
What strings are in his bow that I've been missing?
I haven't been watching any different games than you -the last 2 weeks he has been close to the worst player on the field for either team.
Instead of putting it on Moltzen all the time it's time to get rid of the REAL weak link.
And I'm not always calling for Moltzen to play half ( although I think he should ) - if you read my posts I'd be happy for Miller to be in front of Lui as well .
Lui is a liability - it's tough to win a comp without a good half and our current No 7 has been the worst in the NRL two weeks running….but don't let the facts get in the way of bagging Moltzen. :deadhorse:

CK - I get the impression you don't rate Lui - especially his recent performances.

Your right in that he has been terrible however I think he has a lot of upside. He can ballplay. He does have a good kicking game and he is a strong runner of the footy. His defence needs massive improvements however he does have the size to be a good defender.

I'm not sure if Moltzen should be in the starting squad and I'm inclined to think Lui needs some more time however anyone knocking Moltzen on the weekends performance has not been watching Lui. I said before that was probably the worst performance I have seen from a halfback when playing for the Tigers and I still think it was. When he touched the ball it was nightmare stuff.

I still think Moltzen would be better for us at fullback even though McKinnon has been good. McKinnon is a complete fullback in that he does everything well but he isn't the athlete that Moltzen is or that most of the fullbacks in the comp are. Maybe Moltzen should be learning how to play fullback in reserves however if Lui continues his current form he cannot stay in the run-on team. It is too big a risk.

 

[Guest]

As long as Moltzen fails to put his body on the line and take on the defence, he will never be a good fullback. He simply does not have the confidence a good fullback should have. He might have McKinnon for speed, but he's not as good under the high ball, not as good around the ruck in support and certainly not as confident in challenging for bombs and putting his body on the line.

Moltzen's best option would be to play halfback or 5/8 for BRET, get back into the groove of playing in the halves, work on his kicking game and then he'll provide great depth if Lui or Marshall gets injured.

 

[tigerbenji]

As i said i would give Moltzen a run @ half this week against saints & bringLui off the bench, Ijust think it would be worth a go & maybe provide a bit more zip around the scrum base, then bring Lui on later in the match.

 

[cktiger]

As long as Moltzen fails to put his body on the line and take on the defence, he will never be a good fullback. He simply does not have the confidence a good fullback should have. He might have McKinnon for speed, but he's not as good under the high ball, not as good around the ruck in support and certainly not as confident in challenging for bombs and putting his body on the line.

Moltzen's best option would be to play halfback or 5/8 for BRET, get back into the groove of playing in the halves, work on his kicking game and then he'll provide great depth if Lui or Marshall gets injured.

He should be getting in the groove of playing half in first grade Willow - not being forced to play out of position to help the team and hinder himself.
You gave Lui a 6.5 out of 10 in your match wrap when it should have been a 2.5 (and that's being kind)
I keep asking but no-one ever answers- what does Lui ever do right consistently to keep his position?
What does he bring to the team that someone else can't?

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Again, if you think Moltzen is a superior halfback than Lui you are clearly watching a different game.

Every week you're playing the same record, Lui's crap, can't tackle, is a speedbump while at the same time calling for Moltzen to play half. Give it a rest. Lui is ahead of Moltzen for good reason, he is a better player and more importantly a player with far more strings to his bow than Moltzen.

Moltzen is a glorified ball running five-eighth, nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't have a kicking game, is not creative, has little variety in his game, does not threaten the line or organise like a good halfback should.

hybrid you talk about the attributes a good half should possess and then list all the things Lui doesn't do.
He doesn't direct the team around the park ,can't tackle , makes consistent bumbling errors and has . at best , an inconsistent kicking game.
What strings are in his bow that I've been missing?
I haven't been watching any different games than you -the last 2 weeks he has been close to the worst player on the field for either team.
Instead of putting it on Moltzen all the time it's time to get rid of the REAL weak link.
And I'm not always calling for Moltzen to play half ( although I think he should ) - if you read my posts I'd be happy for Miller to be in front of Lui as well .
Lui is a liability - it's tough to win a comp without a good half and our current No 7 has been the worst in the NRL two weeks running….but don't let the facts get in the way of bagging Moltzen. :deadhorse:

Where were you two weeks ago when Lui had a great game? For the record, I am not bagging Moltzen, more defending Lui. I call it as I see it.

Lui's defence is poor - no arguments from me. But it is slowly improving. As always with young players, you can't expect consistency straight away. The kid is still only 21 and will only improve.

IMO he is a far better player and most importantly a player who has many more positive attributes than Moltzen. He has far more skills that suit the halfback position than Moltzen does.

Lui was our best player in the biggest game of our season last year, and IMO was one of our best players in the finals series overall. He has weaknesses, and he has been poor the last two weeks but he has had plenty of mates, so I'm not sure why he always seems to be singled out as a problem. He was not the worst player on the park in the last two weeks, that's your opinion.

I am sick of people calling for his head and saying he should be replaced by Moltzen. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Moltzen is still recovering from injury, is clearly not 100%, and is very low on confidence. I also find it laughable that people (rightfully) bag Lui's defence, yet in the same breath suggest Moltzen as his replacement - a player who is scared of contact and has shown time and time again that he is unwilling to put his body on the line. This is a fact and has been proven all season long.

Here is my thoughts on Moltzen - he is a good player, who is more suited as a running five-eighth than a halfback. He hasn't shown any glimpses of a competent long or short kicking game whenever he has played half in FG, and he is not an organiser. He will run at the line when there is a break on, and can put someone through a gap, but he is not creative.

What has happened here is that because we were forced to put up with John Morris at halfback for three years, we get a bit of an upgrade in Moltzen in there and people go on like he is the next Andrew Johns. Fair enough, we went on a winning streak when he played #7 but if you watched closely, it had very little to do with Moltzen playing halfback and more to do with how the team was playing at that time. That video posted above is a great example. It is mostly support play, often in broken field. Where is the creativity? Where is the kicking game, the 40/20s, the leadership, the barking other players around? This is what you want from a halfback.

The fact we haven't had a great halfback since Prince left has blinded people's opinions of Moltzen - he is very overrated on this forum. If people honestly think Moltzen is the SOLE reason we won those games when he played halfback, and that if he plays halfback now we will suddenly go on a similar winning streak, I'm sorry but they are deluded.

 

[happy_tiger]

Again, if you think Moltzen is a superior halfback than Lui you are clearly watching a different game.

Every week you're playing the same record, Lui's crap, can't tackle, is a speedbump while at the same time calling for Moltzen to play half. Give it a rest. Lui is ahead of Moltzen for good reason, he is a better player and more importantly a player with far more strings to his bow than Moltzen.

Moltzen is a glorified ball running five-eighth, nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't have a kicking game, is not creative, has little variety in his game, does not threaten the line or organise like a good halfback should.

hybrid you talk about the attributes a good half should possess and then list all the things Lui doesn't do.
He doesn't direct the team around the park ,can't tackle , makes consistent bumbling errors and has . at best , an inconsistent kicking game.
What strings are in his bow that I've been missing?
I haven't been watching any different games than you -the last 2 weeks he has been close to the worst player on the field for either team.
Instead of putting it on Moltzen all the time it's time to get rid of the REAL weak link.
And I'm not always calling for Moltzen to play half ( although I think he should ) - if you read my posts I'd be happy for Miller to be in front of Lui as well .
Lui is a liability - it's tough to win a comp without a good half and our current No 7 has been the worst in the NRL two weeks running….but don't let the facts get in the way of bagging Moltzen. :deadhorse:

Where were you two weeks ago when Lui had a great game? For the record, I am not bagging Moltzen, more defending Lui. I call it as I see it.

Lui's defence is poor - no arguments from me. But it is slowly improving. As always with young players, you can't expect consistency straight away. The kid is still only 21 and will only improve.

IMO he is a far better player and most importantly a player who has many more positive attributes than Moltzen. He has far more skills that suit the halfback position than Moltzen does.

Lui was our best player in the biggest game of our season last year, and IMO was one of our best players in the finals series overall. He has weaknesses, and he has been poor the last two weeks but he has had plenty of mates, so I'm not sure why he always seems to be singled out as a problem. He was not the worst player on the park in the last two weeks, that's your opinion.

I am sick of people calling for his head and saying he should be replaced by Moltzen. It is ridiculous to suggest it. Moltzen is still recovering from injury, is clearly not 100%, and is very low on confidence. I also find it laughable that people (rightfully) bag Lui's defence, yet in the same breath suggest Moltzen as his replacement - a player who is scared of contact and has shown time and time again that he is unwilling to put his body on the line. This is a fact and has been proven all season long.

Here is my thoughts on Moltzen - he is a good player, who is more suited as a running five-eighth than a halfback. He hasn't shown any glimpses of a competent long or short kicking game whenever he has played half in FG, and he is not an organiser. He will run at the line when there is a break on, and can put someone through a gap, but he is not creative.

What has happened here is that because we were forced to put up with John Morris at halfback for three years, we get a bit of an upgrade in Moltzen in there and people go on like he is the next Andrew Johns. Fair enough, we went on a winning streak when he played #7 but if you watched closely, it had very little to do with Moltzen playing halfback and more to do with how the team was playing at that time. That video posted above is a great example. It is mostly support play, often in broken field. Where is the creativity? Where is the kicking game, the 40/20s, the leadership, the barking other players around? This is what you want from a halfback.

The fact we haven't had a great halfback since Prince left has blinded people's opinions of Moltzen - he is very overrated on this forum. If people honestly think Moltzen is the SOLE reason we won those games when he played halfback, and that if he plays halfback now we will suddenly go on a similar winning streak, I'm sorry but they are deluded.

I'm not wanting to get The Moltzen v Lui debate but want to make a comment . Agree with a lot of what you say Hybrid but do you think the thing with Lui is the fact when he is half back and Sheens wants him to call the shots which is overcomplicating it at times for him and thats why he is up and down because he is so reliant on his forwards doing the job . When Moltzen is \was half the organizing is left to either Benji or Robbie Farah and he can play his own game which frees him up Just a thought

 

[happy_tiger]

The other thing I forgot is Lui has a lot on his plate both inside and outside football He young has to organize the most inconsistant team in the NRL and has a baby as well which can be live altering as many of us know as well and lives well away from his family . He might just be readjusting as well to all of these changes in his life Give him a chance in a months time if he is still floundering do something then

 

[cktiger]

Excuses , excuses , excuses. He isn't cutting the mustard.
Every guy in the team would have some outside distractions, some bigger than others ( eg Marshall's upcoming court appearance)
We all have changes in our life and have to get up , go to work , and do our jobs - or get the boot.
Take Moltzen out of the picture and I would still think Lui is not the right guy to be our halfback.
Yes , he's had a handful of good games - but wouldn't you expect more out of a regular firstgrader?

 

[Guest]

As long as Moltzen fails to put his body on the line and take on the defence, he will never be a good fullback. He simply does not have the confidence a good fullback should have. He might have McKinnon for speed, but he's not as good under the high ball, not as good around the ruck in support and certainly not as confident in challenging for bombs and putting his body on the line.

Moltzen's best option would be to play halfback or 5/8 for BRET, get back into the groove of playing in the halves, work on his kicking game and then he'll provide great depth if Lui or Marshall gets injured.

He should be getting in the groove of playing half in first grade Willow - not being forced to play out of position to help the team and hinder himself.
You gave Lui a 6.5 out of 10 in your match wrap when it should have been a 2.5 (and that's being kind)
I keep asking but no-one ever answers- what does Lui ever do right consistently to keep his position?
What does he bring to the team that someone else can't?

Lui outplayed Moltzen last week and the reason why Moltzen is not starting halfback is simple - Lui is a better halfback. His passing and kicking game are superior to Moltzen, defensively I'd rate them about even. Lui is more dangerous with the ball in hand and is the better playmaker which also gives him a headstart at starting halfback over Moltzen.

For the record, I don't think Moltzen is a poor player, on his day he is very good but he's being played out of position at the moment because the Tigers simply have better options in the halves at the moment, that's the long and the short of it.

 

[cktiger]

Your opinon Kul - not mine .
I'll be happy when I can sit through an entire game without throwing my hands in the air because of some stupid mistake or missed tackle he makes .
On that note I'll agree to disagree so we don't go tit-for-tat ad infinitum

 

[tiger05]

Lui outplayed Moltzen last week

You cannot really think that Lui outplayed anyone last week. He was terrible.

I like Lui and I thought he was the best option in the halves but last week was unacceptable.

 

[Guest]

Lui outplayed Moltzen last week

You cannot really think that Lui outplayed anyone last week. He was terrible.

I like Lui and I thought he was the best option in the halves but last week was unacceptable.

He wasn't the worst in the Tigers side. Who set up Ayshford's try just out of interest?

 

[happy_tiger]

Excuses , excuses , excuses. He isn't cutting the mustard.
Every guy in the team would have some outside distractions, some bigger than others ( eg Marshall's upcoming court appearance)
We all have changes in our life and have to get up , go to work , and do our jobs - or get the boot.
Take Moltzen out of the picture and I would still think Lui is not the right guy to be our halfback.
Yes , he's had a handful of good games - but wouldn't you expect more out of a regular firstgrader?

Life as a NRL player and one of us is a lot different . If you have a baby (meaning wife) you can take time off(holidays) to help your wife settle down and get the bub into a routine . Its not if Rob can take time off (miss a few games ) to do those things . Maybe I'm not as good a parent as you CK but it took me a while to get used to the lack of sleep and the changes to being a dad . And this affected my performances at work slightly . Slightly being off your work performances being related to playing in NRL would mean the difference between having good games or having shockers as you are making split second decisions . Add to that he has no permanent family down here to help just makes it harder . Give him time to adjust ,thats all he needs and If you read my threads concerning Moltzen at the start of the season I was saying same thing that it will take time to him to get confidence to do things he was doing pre ACL reconstruction . I didn't see you complaining then about excuses excuses excuses excuses

 

[tiger05]

Lui outplayed Moltzen last week

You cannot really think that Lui outplayed anyone last week. He was terrible.

I like Lui and I thought he was the best option in the halves but last week was unacceptable.

He wasn't the worst in the Tigers side. Who set up Ayshford's try just out of interest?

I thought he was easily our worse player. Seriously if you weren't yelling out don't pass him the ball you can't be a Tiger fan.

And yes he did do a great pass to Ayshford to set up that try. He might have even done some other good plays however he was really bad.

I'd keep him at half because he has shown plenty of ability however lets be fair he had a shocker.

 

[cktiger]

Excuses , excuses , excuses. He isn't cutting the mustard.
Every guy in the team would have some outside distractions, some bigger than others ( eg Marshall's upcoming court appearance)
We all have changes in our life and have to get up , go to work , and do our jobs - or get the boot.
Take Moltzen out of the picture and I would still think Lui is not the right guy to be our halfback.
Yes , he's had a handful of good games - but wouldn't you expect more out of a regular firstgrader?

Life as a NRL player and one of us is a lot different . If you have a baby (meaning wife) you can take time off(holidays) to help your wife settle down and get the bub into a routine . Its not if Rob can take time off (miss a few games ) to do those things . Maybe I'm not as good a parent as you CK but it took me a while to get used to the lack of sleep and the changes to being a dad . And this affected my performances at work slightly . Slightly being off your work performances being related to playing in NRL would mean the difference between having good games or having shockers as you are making split second decisions . Add to that he has no permanent family down here to help just makes it harder . Give him time to adjust ,thats all he needs and If you read my threads concerning Moltzen at the start of the season I was saying same thing that it will take time to him to get confidence to do things he was doing pre ACL reconstruction . I didn't see you complaining then about excuses excuses excuses excuses

I understand where you are coming from happy but an NRL team can't control a players home life.
(well there are cases like Carney where he's supposed to be on agreed drinking ban)
Lui is not the only player to move away from home or start a family.
Injuries , on the other hand, are part of the game and accommodated depending on the severity of the injury.
The players and coaching staff know that after suffering some injuries it takes a little time to get back to peak playing ability.
In some cases it's more than getting the injury fixed but getting confidence back into the players head.
I wouldn't use that as an excuse in Moltzens case now - he is just being buggered up by playing in different positions week in and week out.

 

[happy_tiger]

CK if you reckon that Moltzen is not still being affected by his ACL injury count how many times you see him throwing that big step he threw willy nilly before the operation to such great effect . What I'm saying about Lui is it is combination of all of it .
How many 21 year old halves currently have just had a baby , play with a side that can look like premeirship favourites one week and look like they would be fodder for NSW cup sides the next and are expected to boss around two of the worlds best players in Farah and Marshall and override their calls .
CK I'll help you throw Lui on the fire if he is still playing this bad consistantly in a months time But be patient he is still very young and still learning . I can help you answer my question Sandow and look what he can be like from week to week they are almost peas in a pod really

 

[Guest]

We will know more on Sunday because there won't be anywhere for Moltzen and Lui to hide against the Dragons. They'll both have to stand up and play well or be made to look second rate.

 

[happy_tiger]

We will know more on Sunday because there won't be anywhere for Moltzen and Lui to hide against the Dragons. They'll both have to stand up and play well or be made to look second rate.

x2 Willow and that goes for the entire playing roster including our two team leaders

 

[Rambo2714]

Way to Much said on this issue , I'm a big fan of moltz , but a bigger fan of the Wests Tigers .

there is a hard call that has to made , and that is moltzen out of the 17\. He is mediocre at centre , and the other positions that he can play well are occupied by better players at the moment .

Putting him on the bench is a waste , as you rotating your fullback or half back is not necessary.

Molts to rub shoulders with beau in reggies.
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Posted using RoarFEED

 

[Goose]

This is getting beyond a joke, the amount of crap moltzen has to put up with is unbelievable, every week, regardless, of what happens.
I just rewatched the bonstoker highlights on moltzen, he is an incredible talent, out of form and out of position, but with blokes of his talent you have to persevere.

People earlier in the year were talking up Lui as being so far ahead of Moltzen as a half, I tell you what we have looked much better in the games Motlzen played at half, and Lui has been horribly out of form in the last 2 games.

If you run through Lui's season it is not great reading

Bulldogs- A couple of good touches (notably a line break) we were a disorganised rabble despite being full strength, our 5th tackle options poor, lui must take some resposnsibility for that.

Warriors- Lui was poor, the team again disorganised, Marshall got us home with some magic.

Raiders (rnd 3)- Team good and organised, Lui individually good)

Roosters- Moltzen played half, injury depleted side, outclassed (due to personal) Personally I thought Moltzen was ok, the cohesion of the side was at best ok, given the injuries, maybe just a pass mark

Souths (first time)- Side looked good, very wel organised, Moltzen Half played well.

Gold Coast- Miller at half, did a reasonable job, showed he had a future, the side started well but fell in a hole

Canberra- Lui great, the team great, well oiled machine

Souths- Lui terrible, team terrible, 5th tackle options atrocious

Panthers-Team a rabble, lui atrocious, looked completely rudderless

Im missing a game, brain block….. but IMO it has not been outstanding performances from Lui at half that shgould result in him having a mortgage on the spot, and Moltzen playing reserve grade.....