OFFICIAL Moses Mbye [Discussion]

[851]

Just remember …you made the point about you can’t test a strain without contact … he faceplanted without any contact
And your question about injured players …tell me Mbye was fit the first 8 weeks after his PCL …Farah at one stage couldn’t bend over to pick up a ball v Canberra 2nd game we played

Actually that's not what I said, again you are taking one statement and hearing something else. What I said was "You can’t 100% test a potential strain in a non-combat scenario". Good as they are, medics any physios can only simulate match conditions outside of the match. They can only provide a best guess about how players are going to hold up when they really play - not just really get tackled, but sprint in match conditions, side-step, push out of a tackle etc.

I take your point that players will say they are fine - so be it, take the player out of the equation. Madge relied on the doctor and physio to make the call as professionals and they thought he'd pull through. There would be 1000 of those decisions made every season, most which are good guesses and some which are not.

In terms of Mbye and Farah playing injured in previous matches - undoubtedly. Not just them, a whole bunch of other players too. But that isn't an epidemic of malpractice or unprofessionalism, that is football 101. The worst your roster is, arguably, the more you have to risk players who are not 100% fit.

You seem to maintain that the 100% fit rookie is better than the injured pro; gosh, better phone up blokes like Wayne Pearce, Shaun Timmins, Dean Young who played with injury for years.

So if you are gonna burn coaches for running out players who are not 100% risk, by all means, line every single one of them up because every single one of them do it.

So you've just named the three players whose injuries were down to arthritis based injuries or players who had basically bone on bone injuries

Injuries that won't get any worse basically no matter what happens ...

Was Moses Mbye injury even remotely in that ball park ...hell no

And it didn't have to be the rookie ....could of been McQueen as Geo said

Go have a look at all the stats from that game and tell me we don't win with Liddle coming off the bench as hooker instead of Taylor ....

100% with you Happy MBye should never have played, Madge failed the team last night, along with some players

 

[WT2K]

@happy_tiger agree, should never have been on the field. Medicos and Madge dropped the ball massively on this one.

 

[voice_of_reason]

100% with you Happy MBye should never have played, Madge failed the team last night, along with some players

I disagree. Do you believe the coach should simply overrule the club's medical professionals?

Would you think the same if they (medical staff) said a player should leave the field due to injury? The coach overrules and says keep them out there.

Madge isn't a Dr or Physio - he simply accepts the opinions of the club's experts. He's not at fault here.

If he can't rely on their advice that's an entirely different discussion.

 

[Jock Koss]

@voice_of_reason rumour that he’s looking for a new physio today I hear😁 so he should

 

[851]

100% with you Happy MBye should never have played, Madge failed the team last night, along with some players

I disagree. Do you believe the coach should simply overrule the club's medical professionals?

Would you think the same if they (medical staff) said a player should leave the field due to injury? The coach overrules and says keep them out there.

Madge isn't a Dr or Physio - he simply accepts the opinions of the club's experts. He's not at fault here.

If he can't rely on their advice that's an entirely different discussion.

From my lounge room miles away I could tell MBye was no good, the cameras filming when he was getting worked on before the game showed enough to say he should be ruled out, Madge dropped the ball on a quite a bit last night, not just MBye, but if your happy that's fine, me I am not

 

[Jock Koss]

They mentioned some groin/hamstring crap in the pre-game and Madge , judging by post game presser obviously had the idea that it was treatable via the needle and not nearly as severe as something like a Hip flexor - that’s something you really can’t push past about 60% effort with on or off the field and I’m speaking from experience / no way were the proper protocols and tests done on Mbye before Madge was given the final word of him being “good to go”.

These are only the facts

 

[TIGER]

100% with you Happy MBye should never have played, Madge failed the team last night, along with some players

I disagree. Do you believe the coach should simply overrule the club's medical professionals?

Would you think the same if they (medical staff) said a player should leave the field due to injury? The coach overrules and says keep them out there.

Madge isn't a Dr or Physio - he simply accepts the opinions of the club's experts. He's not at fault here.

If he can't rely on their advice that's an entirely different discussion.

Fair enough point, but unfortunately the buck stops with Madge, he's the one copping it when a player lasts 5mins and succumbs to an injury he carried into the game.

Mbye must have known he wasn't going to get through 80, he's a muppet

 

[Jock Koss]

@851 mate Benji absolutely cruelled us and we’d lost Aloiai before, Robbie our toughest mentally and possibly fittest/best service from DH about 20 minutes into the game. God’s did not shine on us.

 

[mike]

@Tiger-Tragic that first half penalty were we took the two points was a blunder!

No it wasn’t. The blunder was not doing the same in the second half which would have made it 10-0. We went downhill from there.

 

[happy_tiger]

@Tiger-Tragic that first half penalty were we took the two points was a blunder!


No it wasn’t. The blunder was not doing the same in the second half which would have made it 10-0. We went downhill from there.

Yes and no Mike ..the minute we replaced Farah with ET in the 9 we were never going to be able to repeat what we were doing

Defensively ..absolutely it should of been what we built the win off

But our interchange had been totally buggered

 

[mike]

@Tiger-Tragic that first half penalty were we took the two points was a blunder!


No it wasn’t. The blunder was not doing the same in the second half which would have made it 10-0. We went downhill from there.

Yes and no Mike ..the minute we replaced Farah with ET in the 9 we were never going to be able to repeat what we were doing

Defensively ..absolutely it should of been what we built the win off

But our interchange had been totally buggered

Exactly, which is why they should have taken any points on offer. From memory it was almost in front, 10-0 would have been a huge difference. Instead we take the tap and drop the ball. Go figure.

 

[voice_of_reason]

From my lounge room miles away I could tell MBye was no good, the cameras filming when he was getting worked on before the game showed enough to say he should be ruled out, Madge dropped the ball on a quite a bit last night, not just MBye, but if your happy that's fine, me I am not

It's not about whether I'm happy, it's about taking a sensible look at what happened and try to correct it for the future. I will blame Maguire (or anyone else) when I believe they're at fault, but this isn't his fault. The club employs professionals to make these decisions and Maguire can only make decisions based on professional advice.
What happens next time Matterson has a niggle? The Doctor says he's right to play and Maguire simply says "he's not playing, let's put in a CC debutant?".

 

[voice_of_reason]

Fair enough point, but unfortunately the buck stops with Madge,

No, it stops with the medical advice.

Going by your logic Pat Richards shouldn't have played the '05 grand final because the coach should have over-ruled the medical staff.

 

[TIGER]

Fair enough point, but unfortunately the buck stops with Madge,

No, it stops with the medical advice.

Going by your logic Pat Richards shouldn't have played the '05 grand final because the coach should have over-ruled the medical staff.

If we miss the 8 this year and the next 2, do the medical staff get asked the tough questions about why we're the team with the longest running of missing the 8?
Are the medical staffs heads on the chopping block?

If Madge comes out and says "yeah but we would have made the 8 if the medical staff didn't keep telling me players were fit when they weren't"
The buck stops with the coach, the results are on his head not the medical staff.

 

[voice_of_reason]

Fair enough point, but unfortunately the buck stops with Madge,

No, it stops with the medical advice.

Going by your logic Pat Richards shouldn't have played the '05 grand final because the coach should have over-ruled the medical staff.

If we miss the 8 this year and the next 2, do the medical staff get asked the tough questions about why we're the team with the longest running of missing the 8?
Are the medical staffs heads on the chopping block?

If Madge comes out and says "yeah but we would have made the 8 if the medical staff didn't keep telling me players were fit when they weren't"
The buck stops with the coach, the results are on his head not the medical staff.

Please, you're talking crossed topics. Of course Maguire and the players are responsible for their position on the ladder, but he's not responsible for playing someone who medical staff passed fit and that's the topic we're discussing.

 

[Jock Koss]

@voice_of_reason that is true

 

[TIGER]

Fair enough point, but unfortunately the buck stops with Madge,

No, it stops with the medical advice.

Going by your logic Pat Richards shouldn't have played the '05 grand final because the coach should have over-ruled the medical staff.

If we miss the 8 this year and the next 2, do the medical staff get asked the tough questions about why we're the team with the longest running of missing the 8?
Are the medical staffs heads on the chopping block?

If Madge comes out and says "yeah but we would have made the 8 if the medical staff didn't keep telling me players were fit when they weren't"
The buck stops with the coach, the results are on his head not the medical staff.


Please, you're talking crossed topics. Of course Maguire and the players are responsible for their position on the ladder, but he's not responsible for playing someone who medical staff passed fit and that's the topic we're discussing.

When I say "the buck stops with Madge" I mean if a player looks lame on his first carry and can't go on and as a result it costs his team, it's Madge who wears it.
Madge can't turn around and say but but but the medical staff said.

 

[TIGER]

Mbye was no good on his first bloody touch of the ball, are you telling me Madge couldn't see that in the warm up???

Screw the medical staff, it's not their head on the chopping block if we lose and miss the 8 because we're left a player down after a few minutes.
Mbye needs a boot too for being a muppet

 

[voice_of_reason]

Madge can't turn around and say but but but the medical staff said.

Actually he can and did. They cleared him for to play he has no option but to trust their judgement. Are you suggesting he has a greater medical opinion than a doctor?

You also haven't answered what I asked earlier. Would you be happy if Matterson had a niggle, was cleared medically fit by the doctor and for Maguire to rule him out against the professional advice?

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Jimmy]

Mbye isn’t really a strike centre but we dearly missed his play making on the edge.. me personally if benji does retire or gets injured I’d like to see Mbye in the halves again