My reasons to why Moltzen plays 7 for the rest of season:

[hybrid_tiger]

There is one reason I don't want Lui in the team and that is because Moltzen will go back to fullback if this is the case.

That is all.

 

[Illek]

There is one reason I don't want Lui in the team and that is because Moltzen will go back to fullback if this is the case.

That is all.

Agreed

 

[bonstonker]

@ southerntiger and bonstonker

i fail to see what you guys are talking about with lui in his 6 games in the halves, hes really done nothing but just pass the ball, his brilliant kicking game everyone talks up is no where to be seen

I dont know how both of you can say after watching both of them in the halves for 6 games each that lui brings more to the table then moltzen

well let's look at his kicking game

manly
1.47 min 20 out gets a repeat set.another repeat set follows and lote scores.momentum was created by lui with the original repeat set.
16.46 kicks it dead from half way
62.42 kick from own 42 to manly winger on full on his 10 yard line.brings it out to the 25.
also in that game
6.38 puts ayshford away that should have resulted in 4 points.
43min delayed pass on the last to moltzen on own 30 has play finish inside manly 20

roosters
1.56 40m out and carney returns it to the 10 yard line.
40.52 kicks from own 43 to find the in goal and carney gets to the 3 yard line.
also in that game
8.21 takes on the line gets quick play the ball and benji scores

he has broken the line, passed people through the line and showed a kicking game that puts fullbacks and wingers under pressure.
people have even had a go at his defense.
against the roosters carney had the advantage and drew lui just like you expect a quality ball player to.
apart from that lui was fine on a bad ankle and all.

what you don'y understand is that a coach would love his style.he has not contributed with a mistake while in possession.he has not turned the momentum of a game towards the opposition.
benji,farah,moltzen have this year.
under pressure against manly he simply ran it instead of giving it off to someone else when inside our 20.

i love the control that this kid has.he doesn't overplay his hand or come in and stuff up our momentum when the forwards are rolling.
he knows his role and he plays it well.if only more players in this team did the same the last 4 years.

only the start of his career but it is obvious the talent this kid has.

 

[ron_burgandy]

@ southerntiger and bonstonker

i fail to see what you guys are talking about with lui in his 6 games in the halves, hes really done nothing but just pass the ball, his brilliant kicking game everyone talks up is no where to be seen

I dont know how both of you can say after watching both of them in the halves for 6 games each that lui brings more to the table then moltzen

well let's look at his kicking game

manly
1.47 min 20 out gets a repeat set.another repeat set follows and lote scores.momentum was created by lui with the original repeat set.
16.46 kicks it dead from half way
62.42 kick from own 42 to manly winger on full on his 10 yard line.brings it out to the 25.
also in that game
6.38 puts ayshford away that should have resulted in 4 points.
43min delayed pass on the last to moltzen on own 30 has play finish inside manly 20

roosters
1.56 40m out and carney returns it to the 10 yard line.
40.52 kicks from own 43 to find the in goal and carney gets to the 3 yard line.
also in that game
8.21 takes on the line gets quick play the ball and benji scores

he has broken the line, passed people through the line and showed a kicking game that puts fullbacks and wingers under pressure.
people have even had a go at his defense.
against the roosters carney had the advantage and drew lui just like you expect a quality ball player to.
apart from that lui was fine on a bad ankle and all.

what you don'y understand is that a coach would love his style.he has not contributed with a mistake while in possession.he has not turned the momentum of a game towards the opposition.
benji,farah,moltzen have this year.
under pressure against manly he simply ran it instead of giving it off to someone else when inside our 20.

i love the control that this kid has.he doesn't overplay his hand or come in and stuff up our momentum when the forwards are rolling.
he knows his role and he plays it well.if only more players in this team did the same the last 4 years.

only the start of his career but it is obvious the talent this kid has.

i think you just like the idea of him and what potentially he can bring to the team, at this stage he isnt in a bulls roar of moltzen

 

[bonstonker]

@ southerntiger and bonstonker

i fail to see what you guys are talking about with lui in his 6 games in the halves, hes really done nothing but just pass the ball, his brilliant kicking game everyone talks up is no where to be seen

I dont know how both of you can say after watching both of them in the halves for 6 games each that lui brings more to the table then moltzen

well let's look at his kicking game

manly
1.47 min 20 out gets a repeat set.another repeat set follows and lote scores.momentum was created by lui with the original repeat set.
16.46 kicks it dead from half way
62.42 kick from own 42 to manly winger on full on his 10 yard line.brings it out to the 25.
also in that game
6.38 puts ayshford away that should have resulted in 4 points.
43min delayed pass on the last to moltzen on own 30 has play finish inside manly 20

roosters
1.56 40m out and carney returns it to the 10 yard line.
40.52 kicks from own 43 to find the in goal and carney gets to the 3 yard line.
also in that game
8.21 takes on the line gets quick play the ball and benji scores

he has broken the line, passed people through the line and showed a kicking game that puts fullbacks and wingers under pressure.
people have even had a go at his defense.
against the roosters carney had the advantage and drew lui just like you expect a quality ball player to.
apart from that lui was fine on a bad ankle and all.

what you don'y understand is that a coach would love his style.he has not contributed with a mistake while in possession.he has not turned the momentum of a game towards the opposition.
benji,farah,moltzen have this year.
under pressure against manly he simply ran it instead of giving it off to someone else when inside our 20.

i love the control that this kid has.he doesn't overplay his hand or come in and stuff up our momentum when the forwards are rolling.
he knows his role and he plays it well.if only more players in this team did the same the last 4 years.

only the start of his career but it is obvious the talent this kid has.

i think you just like the idea of him and what potentially he can bring to the team, at this stage he isnt in a bulls roar of moltzen

i like what he brings now and in the future.
but your idea of dropping rhino and playing lui at lock shows what your opinion is worth.

 

[cqtiger]

I don't know what some people will do when we lose a game when Moltzen is playing halfback. I still want to see how Taumata goes in first grade. I think this kid is our secret weapon…if he gets it together in the next few weeks. How has he been going in the reggies?

 

[system]

Too predictable right now trying to run too much with the ball in hand.

Give it four or five weeks minimum before we see the best out of Arana

 

[tigerdre]

Year of the Tiger.

Dont get insulted by anything I say. Its not meant to be taken personally. I like to make bald statements at time.

A lot of these views （particularly the 6/6 record) have been used to justify Moltz being the right choice for 7\. In reality only one of the games (Canberra last year) can be attributable to Moltz. I just think its lazy analysis. For example, our best victory last year was against the Dogs IMHO. Who was the 7? Morris. Does that mean we were wrong to let him go. No it just meant the team played very well and Morris played his part in a very good victory. Exactly what Moltz has done in 5 out of 6 of those matches.

In terms of number 6 I hate this argument as it has been used by Fitzy supporters to justify why he has been chosen in first grade. It doesnt matter in what context it is used, it is a crap argument that prevents young players from getting a chance to prove themselves as opposed to mediocre older players with experience.

Just to be clear, I didnt agree with you on 4\. I meant ditto as in the same answer as my answer to 3.

I dont need to give 6, 3 or 10 reasons.

I have to disagree with you southern.I think 6/6 record is very important.It proves that this combo works & shouldn't be messed around with.The reason it works is Moltzen takes so much pressure off the Marshall game.The have the same connection that Prince had with Marshall.With others playing 1/2 i feel Marshall had to take extra responsibilty because the right side attack was un-inventive & predictable.
I have also read on other occasions where you have stated that our best game was against the dogs.That game had no bearing.The pressure was off & we all know when we are relaxed & play without pressure we are near impossible to beat

 

[Geo]

i thought he played junior kangaroos as a half back, also the first season of under 20s as a halfback before being moved to fullback, also i thought ayshford played 5/8th a fair bit in U20s as well

was i just imagining all this

No Ron your not imagining that he played halfback for the Jnr Roos….from then on it gets a bit scratchy...In 2007 he played 5/8th outside Lazarus taking BRET into the semi's....he started 2008 on the bench in first grade and came on to replace Bunji after 6 mins....played the next 5 games and went back to the 20's as a fullback ...Dunley was half....

His best position is 5/8th....but who cares....Moltzen at 7....yeah baby...

Bonstonker....not for 1 sec do I suggest Benji get punted from his No. 6 jersey....It was response to southern saying we don't have a natural No7...whatever that is these days....

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

i, like some of you people, want moltzen embedded in the 7 jersey - but i think lui will slot straight back in. When sheens is in this frame of mind - it takes a lot to change his thinking or stubborness. Why wont he see that Moltzen has more agility in the 7 role over Lui. Lui aint bad, but Moltz is that little bit better because it frees up all our natural players to shine. Lui cant do this yet. Moltzen is spontaneous, Lui has strategy. In the spur of the moment which ability would you choose?

 

[Guest]

i, like some of you people, want moltzen embedded in the 7 jersey - but i think lui will slot straight back in. When sheens is in this frame of mind - it takes a lot to change his thinking or stubborness. Why wont he see that Moltzen has more agility in the 7 role over Lui. Lui aint bad, but Moltz is that little bit better because it frees up all our natural players to shine. Lui cant do this yet. Moltzen is spontaneous, Lui has strategy. In the spur of the moment which ability would you choose?

If Moltzen show good form in the 7 jersey while Lui is injured, I cannot see Lui just walking back into the team. I'm a fan of Lui and think he has a big future, but if Moltzen produces good form and the Tigers string a few wins together, I don't think Sheens will move him in a hurry.

 

[southerntiger]

Who's bagging Lui…...

It's a problem and a nice one to have,,,,, cause they're all 5/8th's....

What are you going to do punt Bunji....

why would you punt benji,he is our halfback.
there is a reason the halfback is called the general.

as far as moltzen and the win loss record.maybe it has more to do with him not being our fullback.
i think ryan was better than him last night and 3 levels higher than what moltzen can do at fullback.
last year gallant was better than moltzen at fullback.
but with all win loss ratios,they need time to show the real story and even then there are still plenty of other factors when you are playing a TEAM sport.

moltzen at this stage is a good running 5/8 with a mediocre kicking game.
he is good at running through gaps than putting players through holes.
moltzen mind tends to drift out of games that worries me.i didn't like his option of passing to ellis on the last when we were up 8-0.i didn't like his pass to rhino when up 12-0 against the roosters.
he obviously has a great relationship with benji,and that is where his real value is.

lui on the other hand has shown ability running and passing.his kicking game is much better than moltzen.
what lui doesn't have is the connection with benji like moltzen has.
and that is to be expected with only one off season in the tim sheens system.

**i don't think moltzen has played anywhere near as good as it is being made out to be**.and lui has been the opposite.
tends to happen alot on forums.
tim moving to the halves allows us to strengthen at fullback while still getting consistent form in the halves.

i am happy with both players form partnering benji.

I agree with pretty much all of this, particularly the bold.

My concern with the 6/6 (which is really only 5.5/5.5 for the sake of truthfullness) is that it doesnt analyse a players contribution to the team. I think hs supporters we tend to take a less critical analysis to our victories than we do to our wins. This is understandable, but ultimately the wrong way to go about evaluating players. For example, Moltz put in a rubbish kick on Friday night that almost resulted in a Parra player running 70m for a try. Yet, no mention of it here.

You will notice that I have never said Lui should be picked ahead of Moltz. My whole point has been that if you go watch all the games which we won with Moltz at 7, his contribution (bar the Canberra game) was no where near as good as some suggest.

 

[southerntiger]

i, like some of you people, want moltzen embedded in the 7 jersey - but i think lui will slot straight back in. When sheens is in this frame of mind - it takes a lot to change his thinking or stubborness. Why wont he see that Moltzen has more agility in the 7 role over Lui. Lui aint bad, but Moltz is that little bit better because it frees up all our natural players to shine. Lui cant do this yet. Moltzen is spontaneous, Lui has strategy. In the spur of the moment which ability would you choose?

If Moltzen show good form in the 7 jersey while Lui is injured, I cannot see Lui just walking back into the team. I'm a fan of Lui and think he has a big future, but if Moltzen produces good form and the Tigers string a few wins together, I don't think Sheens will move him in a hurry.

Thats my thought and is consistent with Sheens pre-season comments that the 7 position was still up for grabs.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

willow and southerntiger, i hope you are right. It just makes more sense. However last year it happened when moltz was replaced in favour in Lui - and that was before the semis. Like i said i hope you are correctamundo on this one but I'm a firm believer that Sheens wants Lui at 7 for his big picture to work. There always has to be something with Sheens, but maybe because this season he is more desperate to make the 8, maybe only then will moltzen remain at 7 if we keep winning. But the record speaks for itself with moltzen and marshall in the halves.

 

[Guest]

willow and southerntiger, i hope you are right. It just makes more sense. However last year it happened when moltz was replaced in favour in Lui - and that was before the semis. Like i said i hope you are correctamundo on this one but I'm a firm believer that Sheens wants Lui at 7 for his big picture to work. There always has to be something with Sheens, but maybe because this season he is more desperate to make the 8, maybe only then will moltzen remain at 7 if we keep winning. But the record speaks for itself with moltzen and marshall in the halves.

Yes but that was also due to Gallant breaking his leg against the Roosters. Sheens will ultimately start to look for stability in the side over the next few weeks. If Moltzen does his job, and particularly if he does it well, and if Ryan gets another go at fullback and continues to rack up big metres, I cannot see Moltz being dropped.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

good point. ryan WAS a revelation at fullback. Okay Okay, willow, you fill me with optimism. I'll go with you on this one.

 

[simonthetiger]

There is more than just the 7 up for grabs.

Now the 1 is up there too.

If Beau and Moltz go well,I cant see Sheens moving either of these,as moving one directly leads to moving the other.

 

[southerntiger]

Sheens made some positive comments about Beau's game in the post-match reports.

 

[the_scene]

I am more than happy for Moltzen to wear the 7, especially if we keep on winning. However his perfromances in the 7 are overhyped while his performances (at least in attack) in the 1 are underrated. In the Manly game Moltzen was brilliant injecting himself when he saw fit. He was dynamic and is also very effective around the ruck with quick interchanges of short passes between himself and benji and Farah. That said it is clear that defsenivley he is a liability playing at fullback - and as such i am not arguing that he should be in the number one.

It is obvious to anyone who looks at things objectively that Lui's perfromances are underrated for the simple fact that people want Moltzen in the 7.

Lui has been solid in the matches he played this year and has shown signs that he can step it up a few notches with more first grade experience and the resulting confidence. He should not be written off.

 

[ron_burgandy]

@bonstonker i NEVER said lui should play lock ahead of rhino, now i have said for rhino to be benched but ive never said lui should be playing lock ahead of rhino