Nathan Cleary

[Needaname]

Yep, premature to extend before even making the finals.

2 years is a long time. Hypothetically speaking we could be pushing for a premiership in two years time. No guarantees Penrith will, what does Ivan want more, to coach his son or be a premiership winning coach?

Coach his son Bogan

I'm not so sure about that.

Ivan wants the best for his son.

 

[tigerap]

If Nathan signs with Gus and the Panthers after all they put his father through, then my opinion of the kid is so low he may as well be playing for the Roosters.

Unless Ivan ends up back at the Panthers..

Next marker will be how the panthers approach the next 2 years coaching role. If they appoint someone for more than 2 years then Ivan is out of the interim equation, however I’m assuming Nathan has agreed long term there with assurances that Ivan will be fast tracked over there, so interim coach most likely - seems Nathan is calling the shots. In any case who cares, this whole Nathan/Ivan has been a big distraction for us. Time to move on.

So over this IC/NC stuff… for 2 years we were strangled as a club as we worked through the big 4 saga, now it appears we are going through 2-3 years of Ivan Cleary will he or won’t he saga... sheezzz sick of all this BS that us fans have to wade through....

 

[magpiecol]

Actually I’ve given this a lot of thought.

Since this latest challenge in the development of Wests Tigers presented itself I have been very restrained in my posts and thoughts. I’ve let it play out. I’ve reserved judgement.

So, after careful consideration I have formed the opinion that we need a long term coach to build our on-field success. We need someone with a vision to build our roster and brand thus attracting top line players. If you’ve read my posts over time you’ll know I value the importance of building a roster with top class players. For us to do this we need a long term coach - otherwise these players will not come.

I want Ivan to be that coach.

But if he wants to be with his son in 2021 or earlier - he is not what we need.

So, I may not agree with your thoughts and ideas but rest assured I have given it quite a lot of thought

OK fair enough I may have stated my position a bit harshly.

I personally would not extend any coach beyond the current 2 years remaining without having first made the finals. Improvement is good, but Ivan should not be re-signed until we make the finals, and frankly we need to do it both of the remaining seasons that he has. I don't care if he has ambitions beyond 2020 - I am confident all head coaches have a similar sort of ambition, it just may not be in the public conscious.

E.g. Craig Bellamy has either had serious thoughts, several times now, about going to Broncos… or at least mentioning the Broncos to leverage more money out of Storm. He can do that because he's Craig Bellamy, but I reject the idea a coach has to want to be there long-term to be of any good, or will lack motivation if he has long-term plans. What we need is not a dreamer, we need a bloke to take us to the finals with some consistency, and if he leaves at some point, or we fire him, leaves the club in better shape than when he came.

I'd love a long-term coach to build on-field success, but the reality is that most coaches are not long-term. It's too cut-throat. Would love to sign a Bellamy, Robinson or Bennett, because they are really the only coaches who have terms of the type you are speaking. Everyone else is 2-3 years at a time, then they roll over if success is not forthcoming.

And recalling that the last long-term coach we had won 1 comp and made 3 finals in 10 seasons - widely considered insufficient, and if not for the premiership, arguably laughable. Good bloke, good coach, smart operator, strong history of coaching... and lacked overall success for Tigers.

Yep - get what you’re saying.

Agree that we must make the 8 next year. Nothing else comes close to a pass.

Agree that the coaching world is tumultuous.

But we need stability to attract personnel. Cleary and Pascoe seemingly were like minded and I bought into the package - together they would rebuild our club. Now I’m not so sure.

I don’t want to discover we’re not attracting talent because our coaching staff is not settled. Or that current players are not putting in because the coach they believed in is heading west (literally!!).

Look at this weeks teams: Easts, Sharks and Storm have coaching stability. Souths are the anomaly.

Just my opinion, that’s all.

They also have the best players.

 

[tigerap]

I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. **Extend Ivan or piss him off.** One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!

I dont get this mindset…I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse

Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!

Extend him now to 2023 then he and son can hook up where ever…. if he rejects the extension, cut him loose now and bring on Madge

 

[Needaname]

I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. **Extend Ivan or piss him off.** One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!

I dont get this mindset…I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse

Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!

Extend him now to 2023 then he and son can hook up where ever…. if he rejects the extension, cut him loose now and bring on Madge

Sorry, 2 issues with that.
Madge has not had success in building a squad that achieves sustained success.
They had immediate success in 12 but they had that squad being built the couple years before that ready to capitalise. He had 2 semi successful years with Souths and 1 premiership the following year. By the time Madge started with Souths, their rebuild was just about complete, it needing some polish.

In the same context when Ivan coached the panther he started with a team and a club in nead of a rebuild in 12 very much link us from last year. In 13 he builds on his foundations from the year previously and in 14 he gets the team one game away from the gf. Following that a disaster year of injuires and lack of depth from the previous year followed. We’ll never know whether Ivan had the ability to improve on 15s performance in 16.
\
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With the tigers rebuilt, we are at the 12’ - 13’ stage of that panthers rebuild. Let us get to 14’ before we move the coach on.

 

[Geo]

I’m so over this shite. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!

Why would you extend Ivan Cleary beyond his current ..whilst improvements have been made in areas of defence and staying in most games we still failed to achieve a top 8 finish…...as for getting rid of him he has a contract. If we continue to improve next year then sure offer an extension...

 

[tonza]

Cleary has 2 full seasons to run on his contract, to end 2020\. We are all aware. Is that not enough to entice new players over? Some might only be signed for 2 seasons anyway, and there's currently no guarantee that Ivan stays or goes in 2021\. Does anyone really think Penrith will for sure sign Ivan now for 2021 if Tigers continue to fail to make any impact on the finals the next 2 years? They gave him the flick once and he hasn't got a team to the finals since - hardly a stellar track record, and they gave him the flick for a reason.

But above all this, how many coaches are actually contracted beyond 2020, i.e. how many of the other 15 head coaches have a deal with more surety than Ivan, for their players to mull on?

The answer is 3 coaches! Bellamy just extended to end 2021, Green to end 2021 and Robinson to end 2022, and those are all extensions from this season. So if you are a player wanting assurances of the coach beyond 2020, you currently have 3 choices.

How many coaches with even contracts as long as Ivans, to end of 2020? Just another 4 - Barrett (and he's leaving apparently), Garth Brennan, Brownie, Sticky. Hardly a list of success-guaranteed clubs.

All the other coaches unsigned beyond 2019 - Brad Arthur, Ciraldo, Bennett, Flanagan, Kearney, Mary, Dean Pay, Seibold.

In summary - Ivan has a contract length equal to or better than 12/15 = 80%.

This is the most logical way to look at the whole coaching situation, and as others have stated, if Cleary has does an exceptional job this time next year, we might offer him a extension.

 

[jirskyr]

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?

Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.

 

[Geo]

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?

Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.

Gee wizz imagine a professional rugby league player having to train hard….

 

[Snake]

I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. Extend Ivan or piss him off. One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!

Why would you extend Ivan Cleary beyond his current ..whilst improvements have been made in areas of defence and staying in most games we still failed to achieve a top 8 finish…...as for getting rid of him he has a contract. If we continue to improve next year then sure offer an extension...

Extending Clearys contract at this time is a knee jerk reaction,if there is major improvement next season his contract still has one year to run then offer an extension.
Some common sense has to prevail…. Imo Penrith have made some bad decisions over the last few months and I am very glad NC has resigned with them as the crazy money to sign him can be better spent to rebuild our team ...yes he is a good player but there are other priorities at this stage.

 

[Furious1]

Don’t watch channel 9 and fox always goes straight to Ennis and co., but saw this online. I know it was annoying all the Ivan and Nathan speculation but this pretty much pulls at the heartstrings

https://mobile.twitter.com/wwos/status/1040571709915521024

"Don't worry son, i'll be here with you next year"

Seriously, i wonder whether it will be this week or next that Ivan requests his release on "compassionate" grounds.

How is that old bone you have?

Starting to look a bit fresher than what you thought, isn't it.

 

[happy_tiger]

Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st

 

[jadtiger]

Don’t watch channel 9 and fox always goes straight to Ennis and co., but saw this online. I know it was annoying all the Ivan and Nathan speculation but this pretty much pulls at the heartstrings

https://mobile.twitter.com/wwos/status/1040571709915521024

"Don't worry son, i'll be here with you next year"

Seriously, i wonder whether it will be this week or next that Ivan requests his release on "compassionate" grounds.

How is that old bone you have?

Starting to look a bit fresher than what you thought, isn't it.

No it is old and mouldy but you can keep on clinging to hope that it becomes juicy like news ltd wants you to

 

[Tcat]

Totally agree with extending ivan contract

With sheens There's so many varibles

Clubs in a much strong position financially now and sheens may do a lot better now. For example there a lot more people to help with cap, recruitment and admin and he could focus on coaching.

What do you think about Mcguire. ?

Tough one. He won a comp within first 3 years, given the boot 3 years after that. A proven product of the Bellamy system, known hard trainer and disciplinarian, but also got on the nose with the players. Hasn't had another club since to show his ability or prove/disprove that he does not stay popular with the players.

I spoke to a guy who knows some inside info at Souths, said Maguire tactically pretty astute but wears the players down because he trains so hard and is so strict. His opinion was it works for a while, and if that produces results then great (e.g. a premiership), but has a limited effect before it just annoys players.

The best thing Ivan can do is continue to say nothing and coach / build this team. We don't need to know anything about beyond his current contract and the media will move on to other topics eventually. All coaches have a plan with regards to their own situation, just like players do and he needs to achieve and get results. Now that Nathan has re-signed hopefully they put Ciraldo in the head coach role and let him prove himself. It's a win for all parties. Ciraldo seems respected at Penrith, he may prove to be everything they want in a coach (Nathan
seems to like him) which in turn keeps Ivan on his toes. We can speculate that Nathan re-signed on the provisa that Ivan comes in when his tigers contract is out, but who really knows. Nathan Cleary might fizz out into just another above average footballer (sounds weird, but hes being touted as the next Thurston).

If however, all the speculation is true and Ivan leaves, Madges hard attitude wouldnt hurt our playing group. There have been plenty of players in our club that have had an easy ride over the years.

 

[Russell]

Can't see Madge doing any good with our mob.

He may have won a comp (it was all set up for him imo) but I can't see him winning another one.

We are still rebuilding and he is no good at that.

 

[TonyTiger]

Can't see Madge doing any good with our mob.

He may have won a comp (it was all set up for him imo) but I can't see him winning another one.

We are still rebuilding and he is no good at that.

Madge is a great motivator, I’ve had enough of Ivan’s Mr Nice Guy - with a shrug of the shoulders and a wry smile he can dismiss the long run of defeats mid-season where we hibernated like bears.. came out foraging for food early in the year then retreated to our cave to sleep off the winter, only to wake towards the end to string some wins together.
Make it happen.

 

[newtiger]

Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st

Hap you make too much sense to be on here, another second rower prop centre possibility of one home ground.

 

[Telltails]

I’m so over this s***. We have an awesome halfback - re-sign him to a long deal. Fix the roster and get some decent bloody players. **Extend Ivan or piss him off.** One or the other. Oh and Justin, don’t go on holidays until this is all done!

I dont get this mindset…I know all the talk and theories around it, players wont come, his heart wont be in it blah blah...i think thats rubbish myself, he will go eventually one way or the other just let him continue to do what hes building.
he doesnt deserve an extension (that hes unlikley to agree to anyway) yet and he doesnt deserve the arse

Mate I’ve had a few beers!!

BUT I think we need long term commitment to encourage good players and build our squad. If Ivan is going to Penrith in 2021, Go now. Find a coach who will not just talk about being on the bus but will actually do it. I’d prefer Ican to be that man, so extend him. If he won’t commit- bye bye!

It does make the "on the bus" tag a little hard to swallow. You would think a rebuild coach would have difficulty selling the future direction of the club when he is likely not going to be there see it through.
He did sign Matterson under all the speculation so there is a possiblity that fans and players view things differently. Or maybe they know more about whats really happening than we do.

 

[Demps]

Surprised everyone is bouncing off the walls at the alleged 4 year contract Nathan is about to sign at Penrith

Honestly it is good news for WT's , we have other issues we need to fix 1st

Yeah… Cleary is overrated.
Hes can spend the next four years choking it up.
He looked lost without Maloney and in origin he was unnoticed.

Got carried this season...
Can't see him winning any comps any time soon. Sozzaaaa

 

[851]

It’s like my brother who said he always thought he’d get divorced just never thought it would happen this quick.

Cleary is planning on leaving. We want someone who we know is going to stay and more importantly, wants to stay.

Get rid of Cleary now.

Mmmmm

Can't do that, Kent and co suggested it. :frowning: