Nofo Must Do His Time

[upthetigers]

He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.

Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.

Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.

 

[Needaname]

Either way, it appears up and in is not the kind of defence we should employ on the right side.
Despite the situation Nofo was left in it is his positioning prior to the decision that I have a problem with.
He hesitates far too often in those situations and either way he goes his always to late to get to the spot.
Whether he stays out or follows in he doesn’t have the pace to delay on that decision.
I say it’s time for Fonua.
He did spend his most of his ESL career as a right winger.

 

[stevied]

Zelezniak is scared to jump for a ball, dances on the spot or runs sideways but he has never been dropped. at least Nofa runs hard and straight and makes a lot of meters. the try Zelezniak let in yesterday was a joke but i bet he will still be there this week again as usual. this super star must be one of Cleary's pets as with Godinet. it seems Tui and Nofo cannot do anything right in Cleary's eyes.

Geez I’d hate to read your posts after a few lean weeks!! We are coming 4th with a 5-2 record. MWZ has been safe as a bank so far this year. That non contested try was not great but not why we lost the game. As far as Tui goes, he is way off the pace and has looked vulnerable when playing first grade. (And I’m a fan of Tui!!)
As for stating Cleary has pets, maybe the better way to state it is Cleary believes player x or y can do the job they are assigned.
Cleary has had a huge role in turning this whole club around. One loss and you spit bile at him. Way too harsh imo.

Well said! Ivan is one of the least impulsive or knee jerk coaches around and has done a sterling job. I like Tui too, for his genial personality and unquestioned ability, but his form does not demand a recall.

 

[stevied]

So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding… I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.

Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.

I think he needs to learn (and others as well) that sometimes your best option in defense is to hedge your bets and defend the space between - try to give yourself a chance to cover either contingency and try to put the attack in two minds about where you're going to go and what space you can cover. Jason Nightingale has been doing it really well for the Dragons this season - putting himself between and using a lot of back peddling to buy himself and the cover defence more time.

I agree and that's my main problem with Nofo defending. I don't think he is solely responsible for the defensive lapses, but as a winger, unfortunately a big part of your game is covering for defensive errors inside. Nofo really doesn't do that, he really doesn't save tries with his defensive smarts - he either defends properly or he gets totally beaten.

MWZ has copped a bit of a bashing but you watch MWZ in defence, backing off when they shift to his side then picking his moment to come forward.

Nofo comes flying forward as soon as the line drags in, and yes he is following his centre, but he is often not really reading the play, he's just following his team-mates. The 3rd Sio try was clear evidence for me, the way he turned after the pass to Sio, didn't even look at his opposite number, and got beaten on the inside, which for a winger is just criminal. Nobody should ever step inside you when defending the sideline, you should always be forcing them to the corner at least.

What I would be super interested is of any wingers who have scored doubles or hat-tricks against us the past few years, how many of those have been the attacking left winger? I have no easy way of finding out, but I have a hunch we've been blitzed far more often on that RHS than the LHS.

Yes, and that is the whole point here, I think. That right side has been a problem for us for years and whether fully or partially to blame for the recurrent lapses, he is the common denominator.

 

[colmcd]

So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding… I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.

Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.

Tui has been less than ordinary, he is not even close to NRL standard on current form, and his effort in ISP has been very lack lustre

Ok, we have to stop focusing on Tui till he performs. But we have a problem on that side of the wing, we either do:

1\. move Thompson back to that wing. When it's Thompson and Marsters defending, that wing is secure. So who goes Fullback? Not NOFO, I am thinking Kevie and have Founa go in for his center spot.

2\. Move Kevie to that wing and have someone step into that Center spot. i.e. Lawrence or Reynolds or someone.

3\. Move Thompson to that wing and promote Gamble to Fullback.

Hmm, Ill take option 3\. I think Kevie and MWZ are making a good combo there.

 

[newtiger]

So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding… I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.

Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.

Tui has been less than ordinary, he is not even close to NRL standard on current form, and his effort in ISP has been very lack lustre

So just leave Nofa there to let his opposing winger have a free run to the try line.
I’m a fan of Nofa but he needs to learn not to go racing in and come up empty handed every time.
Parra will kill him with those long cut out passes, if he continues to rush in.

 

[Snake]

There is pages and pages of why teams just roll past Nofo to score .., this is not a new issue this is NofoS weakness and he never has addressed it . So the fix is he goes back to ISP simple Fan Fav or not !

 

[Pawsandclaws]

There is pages and pages of why teams just roll past Nofo to score .., this is not a new issue this is NofoS weakness and he never has addressed it . So the fix is he goes back to ISP simple Fan Fav or not !

Well written Snake.

 

[Demps]

The game was messy from the start.
Tigers just didn't look. Like they wanted to win.
Beside the first ten minutes of the second half we were rubbish.

Ponga had a field day beside his kicking.
Sio had an easy run up against Nofo.

Was a humiliating gamem

 

[jirskyr]

He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.

Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.

Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.

Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.

 

[underdog]

Fonua for Nofo.
Gamble to the bench for cover on Marshall. Taylor and Liddle to share the Dummy Half duties.
Godinet to State cup.

Gamble looks ridiculously too good for state cup - he needs a run somwhere.

 

[Sco77y]

He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.

Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.

Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.

Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.

Good points. Nofa racing in will almost always result in one thing - a try down his sideline. It isn't the best position to be in once you're already outnumbered but if he was to hedge his bets and cover 50/50 inside and outside it might give the rest of our defence enough time to slide across and give him some support if he needs to make a last ditch attempt at tackling the opposition running down the sideline. Rush in - guaranteed try, hold off and at least there is a chance of stopping the play.

I agree it's a team effort, but Noffa really can't be relied upon to save the day if things go a little wrong in formation.

 

[851]

So I'd say in review:
#1 Benji commits to the dummy, forces Marsters to come in on Ponga, Nofo burst out for Ross and Ponga picks it. Perhaps Nofo can stay out and let the cover take the centre. So I'd say Benji causes the main problem but Marsters and Nofo manage to take nobody, i.e. you need to be faster if you are going to cut players off.

#2 Benji again I reckon, comes in too hard on Pearce, but nobody is sliding… I thought Tigers were a sliding team in 2018 rather than an up-in edge defence? If Benji backs off, Rochow covers the inside and Nofo isn't caught so far inside his sideline. I will say however I feel Nofo is still over-committed here, he doesn't need to be 10 m inside, there's no chance he'll get to his winger if they cut-out. Marsters needs some opportunity to turn and chance, but he'll never reach the winger. Any surprise both these tries are rapid cut-outs, like Knights know Nofo will come in?

#3 Short side, we had the numbers and though Benji gets clipped I don't think he makes a mistake here. Marsters focuses on Pearce (?) but fails to cover it and Nofo only has eyes for Ross. I'm still pretty annoyed that Nofo gets beaten on the inside because he doesn't look at his winger at any time, even in the scramble.

So overall is Nofo just to blame? Certainly not. Problem is for me, the inside defenders are often likely to make a defensive error, because whenever teams run these plays they have an overlap. Thompson on play #3 goes into the line for exactly that reason, because if they pull in the FB or stack some backrowers then you are short-manned. But Nofo turns like the Queen Mary, so even if his inside guys make some tough / wrong reads, he has very little ability to recover, because he comes in too hard.

The cover is rarely going to reach the winger, you need to come up and then slide if you see the have the numbers. Again, we seemed to be playing a lot of up-and-in defence on RHS this evening, which I thought we had started to move away from in 2018.

Good points here Jirskyr, but if Nofo stays on his wing it might give the cover time to get any player inside, but the cover has no chance of covering the winger.
Every coach knows that Nofo always rushes in, and they target this with long ball or cut out pass.
Tui to FB Corey to Right wing.

Tui has been less than ordinary, he is not even close to NRL standard on current form, and his effort in ISP has been very lack lustre

So just leave Nofa there to let his opposing winger have a free run to the try line.
I’m a fan of Nofa but he needs to learn not to go racing in and come up empty handed every time.
Parra will kill him with those long cut out passes, if he continues to rush in.

No Noffa deserves to be dropped, but Tui does not deserve to be promoted

 

[851]

Double post

 

[upthetigers]

He could have made different choices, but it seemed, as all wingers are taught, that he was simply following his half and centre inside him.

Wingers are taught to stay on their man and trust the man inside to cover the space.

Pretty stupid to trust the inside man to cover the space when they have already made a defensive decision creating a massive hole if you stay on your man.

Not true at all, just depends on what type of defence you are using.

I think Tigers are better as a slide defending team, we generally have enough lateral pace on the edges to do this, i.e. Naiqama and Marsters, Benji and Brooks aren't slow-pokes to be run-around by fullbacks or centres.

Prime example is Round 2 vs Storm, Melbourne shifted left and Marsters had come in on Hoffman, but instead they hit Curtis Scott. But Nofo didn't come in, he backed off, and Marsters was able to turn and chase Scott to the corner. This forced Scott to run into Nofo as well and they both took him over the sideline.

There was another match, I think the Broncos game when Nofo showed his winger the corner with slide defence, and put him into touch (Opacic?).

So if you are 4 on 5, there are holes by default because you are a man short. Whether or not those holes are realised inside or out, the fact is cover defence has less far to run on inside runners than outside runners.

But I think the main point being made on Nofo isn't that following his centre in being wrong, just that his decision making and actual pace are problematic, because he ends up taking nobody. Nofo is not renowned for cutting off attacking raids, but he is fairly well known for being beaten by a cut-out pass. He's also got quite a reputation for intercepts as well IMO, which just goes to show you how often oppositions try to cut him out.

Regardless of your opinion, it was clear that Knights put most of their attacks down our RHS, and ultimately to good effect. Sharks did the same thing in the trial.

So are you telling me you should trust the system, but if there is a breakdown in the system, you should still trust it?

It he stays on his man they would have still scored. When you're Nofa, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[joelw2002]

1\. Thompson
2\. Naiqama
3\. Marsters
4\. Lolohea/MCK
5\. Fonua

There's no way I'd have Naiqama on the wing and I'd still keep Malakai on the left wing.

 

[joelw2002]

MWZ was hurt last night, but is ordinary. He should have been able to drive SKD out or compete for the ball.

Malakai out done SKD all game. He always beat him on the highball, he would put pressure on him under the high ball then he'd drop the ball. Unfortunately he got a bit unlucky with that last try and slipped up a little. And people are blaming him for letting in that last try imo he was one of our best. He let in one try all game that was actually a really hard try to stop when our right side let in about 3 stupid tries.

 

[jirskyr]

So are you telling me you should trust the system, but if there is a breakdown in the system, you should still trust it?

It he stays on his man they would have still scored. When you're Nofa, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

You have a point, if the system is for everyone to come in then yes, not his fault.

What I am saying though is he doesn't really come in or stay out, he goes to the no-mans-land. Frankly with Nofo, he's damned if he doesn't and damned if he still also doesn't, because it's mostly doesn't.