NRL. Anti-Vaxers..

[Chicken_Faced_Killa]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

 

[cochise]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

 

[Guest]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

I think it would be in his best interests given the game time he played last season.

 

[cochise]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

I think it would be in his best interests given the game time he played last season.

I agree.

 

[innsaneink]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

Somebody put an old Penrith jersy on and jump on twitter
and ask.him....hell.tell a panthers fan his life story and medical history

 

[Chicken_Faced_Killa]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

Somebody put an old. Penrith jersy on and jump. On twitter and ask. Hi.

Could be a plan, do you have one?

 

[cochise]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

Somebody put an old. Penrith jersy on and jump. On twitter and ask. Hi.

Could be a plan, do you have one?

Daine Laurie has one you can borrow.

 

[Glenji95]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

Where did you hear that he was considering retirement mate? Just curious personally I agree he should considering how he was in 2021

 

[cochise]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

Where did you hear that he was considering retirement mate? Just curious personally I agree he should considering how he was in 2021

It was in one of the newspaper reports a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Glenji95]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

Where did you hear that he was considering retirement mate? Just curious personally I agree he should considering how he was in 2021

It was in one of the newspaper reports a couple of weeks ago.

Well I think he should don’t hate him he just was terrible for us this year I hope it does happen mate

 

[cochise]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

Where did you hear that he was considering retirement mate? Just curious personally I agree he should considering how he was in 2021

It was in one of the newspaper reports a couple of weeks ago.

Well I think he should don’t hate him he just was terrible for us this year I hope it does happen mate

Guess we will know if he shows up to training this week.

 

[Glenji95]

Is there a single thread which remains on topic left on this forum? ?

Would appear, by method of deduction, that Kei is our troublesome antivaxxer. Pretty sure I've seen Tuilagi in some pics at training, but not Kei? Wouldn't have thought Kei would be on 150k though

Second from the right.


If Kei is on 150 k .......the club has finally lost the plot and should all be put down ...seriously

He's not, the anti-vaxxer who wouldn't be at training is on $150k.

Talau ....

The only one's I could think of that I haven't seen in training photos who could be around that price range are Talau (thought he'd be on more than $150k) and Simpkin.

Neither Talau or Simpkin have been sighted because they're in injury rehab, not running around with the others

Must be Tuilagi then. 150 sounds about right and he is deeply religious

Tuilagi's been in training photos too. Not sure who it is.


Fair play, thanks for scouring the images on the site. Hard to think who else it could be, other than one fo the injured players. Talau would be on over 150k, I'd assume Kepaoa is too. It would be one of the players 25-30 in our squad.

Hoffman, Seyfarth, Kei, Tuilagi, Madden, Simpkin etc all been visible at training though. Hopefully whomever it is comes to their senses and gets the jab before they get sacked.

Tamou? ?

That would be great he could just retire.

There have been reports he is considering retirement.

Where did you hear that he was considering retirement mate? Just curious personally I agree he should considering how he was in 2021

It was in one of the newspaper reports a couple of weeks ago.

Well I think he should don’t hate him he just was terrible for us this year I hope it does happen mate

Guess we will know if he shows up to training this week.

Wait and see I suppose but thanks for the update

 

[Odessa]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

Why are some people asymptomatic despite not being vaccinated? I thought we have zero immunity to the virus before catching it?

Do you know what asymptomatic means?

Yes. Your point?

My point is your question makes zero sense. Being symptomatic or asymptomatic has nothing to do with being vaccinated. People were symptomatic or asymptomatic with COVID prior to the vaccine being available. Its just a factor of the virus, a factor of the viral load you get, plus plus plus......

What is the question you are trying to ask....immunity? You arent conflating asymptomatic and immune?

What’s the correct terminology for someone that has the virus (full viral load) but has zero symptoms - like not even a sniffle? Is any person/s like this amongst us in society?

Yes, asymptomatic, and yes a small number of people with the virus are asymptomatic. This was the case before and after the vaccine. Still wondering what your question meant? What does being asymptomatic have to do with the vaccine?

So why would an asymptomatic person need to have the vaccine if they don’t get sick? To prevent spreading the virus?

Asymptomatic has zero to do with it. I could understand an argument that if anyone has contracted the virus (symptomatic or non symptomatic) they dont need the vaccine because the natural immunity from having the virus is better and more durable than the vaccine.....but asymptomatic has zero to do with it.

As far as if they havent caught the virus, there is no way of knowing if they are going to be asymptomatic or not. If you catch COVID, you have a 17% chance of being asymptomatic, 10% of being hospitalised and 1-2% chance of dying. Un vaccinated, you spin the wheel.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

Checks this out - we may have pre existing immunity to COVID through T cells.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201109/Majority-of-population-likely-has-pre-existing-immunity-to-SARS-CoV-2-claim-researchers.aspx

T cells hey? Didn't work out too well for those working for Umbrella Corporation.

Don’t be silly @willow the link is a proper research study by scientists

I'll take my chances with the vaccine thanks.

The point is, did you really need the vaccine in the first place? Your T cell count may have been high enough to prevent infection. That’s why I’m holding off getting vaccinated, until further research is done. Also, further research done into the vaccine/s.

You know you can test for your T cell immunity?

I was thinking to test it. I very rarely get sick. The whole family at home is sick with a virus at the moment (2 x COVID tests this week - both negative) and me not even as much as a sniffle.

I am worried about the long term affects a report out of Sweden today talks about the spike protein interference with DNA repair
And how the average person has two double breaks aday and 70 tears And your body naturally repairs it and the spike protein is not allowing the breaks to rejoin and the tears to heal I am going to read more about it because I am not scientist I want to know more about it

 

[Tiger5150]

Of course they are gene therapies, that's well recognised. But it doesn't matter for this discussion. They have never been used before in these numbers and there are no long term safety data.

They definitely are **NOT gene therapies**. This a well established fact. They never enter the nucleus of a cell and cannot alter your genes.

The mRNA enters the cells and instruct the cells to express the spike protein on it's surface, which they do. They have never been used before in a mass vaccination campaign and we have no long term safety data.

Anyway, the point is, there is no long term safety data. If you know of any, please let me know.

I understand what the vaccines do. That's why I know they are not gene therapy, the mRNA vaccines DO NOT ALTER YOUR GENES.

The cell responds as you say a produces a spike protein. The mRNA is then quickly broken down and destroyed by the cell. The spike protein is recognised as a invader and primes your immune system to produces antibodies. If you then do then get a live Covid 19 virus your immune system recognises it and does it's job. It's you immune system that does the heavy lifting.

The vaccines only stay in your system for a very short time. A matter of days, at the most a few weeks for some, and then they are gone.

We already know what the adverse effects of the vaccines are. Longitudinal studies won't reveal any additional adverse effects. What they will do is determine how long the the immune response is, and therefore how often we need boosters. Various aspects of the studies may tell us what is the most effective dose.

@mike, are you a doctor?

No

Why are some people asymptomatic despite not being vaccinated? I thought we have zero immunity to the virus before catching it?

Do you know what asymptomatic means?

Yes. Your point?

My point is your question makes zero sense. Being symptomatic or asymptomatic has nothing to do with being vaccinated. People were symptomatic or asymptomatic with COVID prior to the vaccine being available. Its just a factor of the virus, a factor of the viral load you get, plus plus plus......

What is the question you are trying to ask....immunity? You arent conflating asymptomatic and immune?

What’s the correct terminology for someone that has the virus (full viral load) but has zero symptoms - like not even a sniffle? Is any person/s like this amongst us in society?

Yes, asymptomatic, and yes a small number of people with the virus are asymptomatic. This was the case before and after the vaccine. Still wondering what your question meant? What does being asymptomatic have to do with the vaccine?

So why would an asymptomatic person need to have the vaccine if they don’t get sick? To prevent spreading the virus?

Asymptomatic has zero to do with it. I could understand an argument that if anyone has contracted the virus (symptomatic or non symptomatic) they dont need the vaccine because the natural immunity from having the virus is better and more durable than the vaccine.....but asymptomatic has zero to do with it.

As far as if they havent caught the virus, there is no way of knowing if they are going to be asymptomatic or not. If you catch COVID, you have a 17% chance of being asymptomatic, 10% of being hospitalised and 1-2% chance of dying. Un vaccinated, you spin the wheel.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi

Checks this out - we may have pre existing immunity to COVID through T cells.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201109/Majority-of-population-likely-has-pre-existing-immunity-to-SARS-CoV-2-claim-researchers.aspx

T cells hey? Didn't work out too well for those working for Umbrella Corporation.

Don’t be silly @willow the link is a proper research study by scientists

I'll take my chances with the vaccine thanks.

The point is, did you really need the vaccine in the first place? Your T cell count may have been high enough to prevent infection. That’s why I’m holding off getting vaccinated, until further research is done. Also, further research done into the vaccine/s.

You know you can test for your T cell immunity?

I was thinking to test it. I very rarely get sick. The whole family at home is sick with a virus at the moment (2 x COVID tests this week - both negative) and me not even as much as a sniffle.

I am worried about the long term affects a report out of Sweden today talks about the spike protein interference with DNA repair
And how the average person has two double breaks aday and 70 tears And your body naturally repairs it and the spike protein is not allowing the breaks to rejoin and the tears to heal I am going to read more about it because I am not scientist I want to know more about it

How about posting the link to the report (in the Coronavirus thread)?

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

That’s the study @odessa is talking about

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

Some bloke explaining the study on YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-SYL-iU0E9Q

 

[jirskyr]

That’s the study @odessa is talking about

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/

That's the abstract, not the full text. Here is full text:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/

You need to be very careful with these studies - it's in vitro for starters (done outside the body, in a lab) and if you read the Discussion it's chock-full of qualifiers - "we propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may...", "our findings also imply". This is true of most studies, it's not a specific criticism of this work.

The proper path of science occurs when other groups peer review the research and attempt to verify / validate / repeat it. If they can do this, the research gains momentum like a snowball - more reviews, more consensus, more and broader research. Other experts have to be able to repeat the findings independently. And then once you gain some consensus in the expert community, that's when you act on a research outcome.

You can't just post the paper, quote Dr Youtube and then say "see told you it's dangerous". That's not how Science works.

Unfortunately the world has changed where laypersons review medical research papers and become concerned about single reports from single sources. That's not how research is supposed to work, and before COVID 99% of non-scientists never read research papers and didn't have any idea what pubmed or Nature or Lancet was. I don't understand why non-medics are reviewing these complicated papers.

 

[Eyeofthetiger 0]

That’s the study @odessa is talking about

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/

That's the abstract, not the full text. Here is full text:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/

You need to be very careful with these studies - it's in vitro for starters (done outside the body, in a lab) and if you read the Discussion it's chock-full of qualifiers - "we propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may...", "our findings also imply". This is true of most studies, it's not a specific criticism of this work.

The proper path of science occurs when other groups peer review the research and attempt to verify / validate / repeat it. If they can do this, the research gains momentum like a snowball - more reviews, more consensus, more and broader research. Other experts have to be able to repeat the findings independently. And then once you gain some consensus in the expert community, that's when you act on a research outcome.

You can't just post the paper, quote Dr Youtube and then say "see told you it's dangerous". That's not how Science works.

Unfortunately the world has changed where laypersons review medical research papers and become concerned about single reports from single sources. That's not how research is supposed to work, and before COVID 99% of non-scientists never read research papers and didn't have any idea what pubmed or Nature or Lancet was. I don't understand why non-medics are reviewing these complicated papers.

That’s why I’m in no rush to get vaccinated. Let science take its course and allow more research to be done. If something like this is proven to be true, you would be nuts to get the vaccine

 

[jirskyr]

That’s the study @odessa is talking about

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34696485/

That's the abstract, not the full text. Here is full text:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8538446/

You need to be very careful with these studies - it's in vitro for starters (done outside the body, in a lab) and if you read the Discussion it's chock-full of qualifiers - "we propose a potential mechanism by which spike proteins may...", "our findings also imply". This is true of most studies, it's not a specific criticism of this work.

The proper path of science occurs when other groups peer review the research and attempt to verify / validate / repeat it. If they can do this, the research gains momentum like a snowball - more reviews, more consensus, more and broader research. Other experts have to be able to repeat the findings independently. And then once you gain some consensus in the expert community, that's when you act on a research outcome.

You can't just post the paper, quote Dr Youtube and then say "see told you it's dangerous". That's not how Science works.

Unfortunately the world has changed where laypersons review medical research papers and become concerned about single reports from single sources. That's not how research is supposed to work, and before COVID 99% of non-scientists never read research papers and didn't have any idea what pubmed or Nature or Lancet was. I don't understand why non-medics are reviewing these complicated papers.

That’s why I’m in no rush to get vaccinated. Let science take its course and allow more research to be done. If something like this is proven to be true, you would be nuts to get the vaccine

No that's exactly wrong, for the reasons I just told you. Science has taken its course. The debate is over on COVID vaccines. I didn't say anything about waiting X amount of time, I said wait for experts to verify individual findings.

COVID vaccines are peer reviewed - more than most products ever are. There's never been so many eyeballs on so few products, we are talking a handful of vaccines and every health authority and virology and vaccine expert on the planet it looking at them, and has been doing so for more than a year.

There have been billions of doses administered and literally billions of people fully vaccinated for many months. BILLIONS, I don't know if people understand how big this number is. If you are going to find safety signals you are going to find it comfortably within billions of administrations.

Again; I am a drug research professional, we typically deal with detectable safety signals in hundreds or thousands of patients, not in the realm of billions. This is in approved medications for all sorts of indications, where typically a couple of hundred or thousand folks get the treatment before it's approved for use. The DURATION of drug research is typically because of the logistical challenges in getting regulatory approvals, drug manufacture and supply, finding enough patients, developing protocols, waiting for regulatory review. Delays in drug development are usually not a safety thing. Very few drug studies follow patients for more than a year or two after treatment.

They didn't take short-cuts on the vaccines either, the studies were typical of vaccine research. The overwhelming majority of potential adverse events from vaccines occur very rapidly - it's why they only ask you to hang around 15-30 minutes after your shot, because the serious reactions (typically allergic) will occur quickly.

So if everything was measured and even, sure you could wait for a very very (undefined) long period of time and see what other safety data becomes available. Truth is that's an ever-moving goalpost, because you will never have 100% definitive drug data - it simply does not exist. People can and still do die from taking drugs as "innocuous" as paracetamol. You'd be waiting forever, or taking an arbitrary long amount of time before deciding to "take the plunge".

In the meanwhile, COVID's coming for you and it's arguably not going to wait so long.