NRL buying Super League stake?

[TillLindemann]

Apparently the NRL is in talks to buy a controlling stake in the Super League, for what would be north of $100,000,000.

What are people's thoughts on this? I think it could be good for the game. Might revive more interest in international football. Might also ensure Toronto's continued presence (everything was on the up for them, then covid knocked them out). On the other hand, not sure where the money is coming from.

 

[Papacito]

I had to check that it wasn't April 1.

 

[dazza65]

Well according to a mate of mine who lives in the North of England - RL is doing it real tough - if not dying.

Problem isn't just with the management of the game - its a real hard slog against the soccer and the rugby - Soccer is obviously the major game and covers all walks of life - from the workers to the elite - the old boys network who run a lot of business there (including media) come from the British upper class Public School system and they sneer at league and will support Rugby. RL is a very working class game only really played in that mid strip of Yorkshire and Lancashire (with the few obvious exceptions)

Part of the deal needs to be media as well in some way - maybe Murdoch again??? lol

 

[jirskyr]

Smart move if they think they can grow the British game, terrible money sink if they cannot.

League in Britain is basically soccer in Australia - batting against codes with better support and better funding. The folks who do like rugby league can be quite fanatic, but as noted by Dazza, it's an extremely limited geographical range.

For example, St Helens is within 15 km of Wigan, Warrington and Widnes. They are literally sandwiched between Liverpool FC and the two Manchester premier league clubs.

There is a 40 km circumference in Yorkshire which includes Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and Halifax. Within that circle are also the lower division sides like Batley Bulldogs and Dewsbury Rams. In that area of Yorkshire there is a little less competition from top-flight football.

I think overall the population spread is OK, but definitely, as noted above, lower socioeconomic areas and therefore cash flow.

I know a few Northerners and most of them have some interest in rugby league, though it's not their primary sport or they aren't big sports followers.

You go up to the border and League has basically zero penetration in Scotland. Soccer by far the most popular sport in Scotland, and if they do play contact sport, it's Union. Union is entrenched in Scottish private schools and universities.

And the big nut London - basically no Rugby League interest at all.

BUT Union was a big deal in Australia during my teens, so it is possible to both grow the sport (from amateur) and lose it within a generation. It's also very possible to turn Union fans into League fans with a good product, and there are plenty of Union fans in UK, Ireland and France.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Smart move if they think they can grow the British game, terrible money sink if they cannot.

League in Britain is basically soccer in Australia - batting against codes with better support and better funding. The folks who do like rugby league can be quite fanatic, but as noted by Dazza, it's an extremely limited geographical range.

For example, St Helens is within 15 km of Wigan, Warrington and Widnes. They are literally sandwiched between Liverpool FC and the two Manchester premier league clubs.

There is a 40 km circumference in Yorkshire which includes Leeds, Castleford, Wakefield, Huddersfield and Halifax. Within that circle are also the lower division sides like Batley Bulldogs and Dewsbury Rams. In that area of Yorkshire there is a little less competition from top-flight football.

I think overall the population spread is OK, but definitely, as noted above, lower socioeconomic areas and therefore cash flow.

I know a few Northerners and most of them have some interest in rugby league, though it's not their primary sport or they aren't big sports followers.

You go up to the border and League has basically zero penetration in Scotland. Soccer by far the most popular sport in Scotland, and if they do play contact sport, it's Union. Union is entrenched in Scottish private schools and universities.

And the big nut London - basically no Rugby League interest at all.

BUT Union was a big deal in Australia during my teens, so it is possible to both grow the sport (from amateur) and lose it within a generation. It's also very possible to turn Union fans into League fans with a good product, and there are plenty of Union fans in UK, Ireland and France.

I’m surprised this thread hasn’t gone gangbusters . Yea union really engaged us around the time we won the 99 World Cup , leading into the opening of stadium Australia , with that game where Jonah lomu scored the match winner at the bell. I was at that game funnily enough with my school union team .
But man , does no one in Aus care anymore about that sport .
So I think you’re right .

The NRL has to pick up SL sand turn it into NRL Europe , whilst also sucking in any RL around the globe and marketing RL as NRL . When people think soccer they think premier league and World Cup , when they think basketball they think NBA, gridiron NFL, baseball MLB, Aussie rules is AFL Outside Victoria .
It’s far easier to sell a brand name , and I think we in RL should really be using NRL as the brand name , as globally it has far more success . Will it relegate super league to division 2 RL, probably . But it was division 2 in everything bar name anyway .

 

[Spartan117]

Solid business idea, strengthen the other pipelines to the main business.

The truth is less and less players are sticking to the game beyond their teenage years and this is even more of an issue where league is not the most popular sport.

Good idea from the NRL

 

[TillLindemann]

It's correct that it's a limited geographic area, but it still contains a big population. I would expect Yorkshire and Lancashire would have a bigger population than NSW and Queensland.

The big clubs like Wigan, St Helens and Leeds get crowds as big as the biggest clubs in the NRL (averages are dragged down by tiny crowds at clubs like Salford and Wakefield).

To be honest I think the area of most potential Super League growth is not in England at all, but France. Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league's assets were stolen and given to union. It's a fascinating history.
Despite all that there's still strong support in the south around Perpignan (where Catalans Dragons are) and Toulouse should be in Super League eventually. But, similar to London-centric England, France's media is very Paris-centric so league struggles for any media attention. But a bit of a cash injection and this could change!

 

[rihannafan1]

Seems a bit quick to me. They should focus on building up league more here first. Last season was promising. However crowd numbers are relatively low, the game-day experience is average and we always hear how grass-roots needs more cash. Not to mention the media do little to promote the better aspects of the game.

Yeah, I get SL is a distressed asset but we should take care of our own first.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Yeah would prefer that they get the game where they want it to be here first.

Once that has been achieved then go looking to grow the game elsewhere.

 

[fibrodreaming]

Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league’s assets were stolen and given to union. It’s a fascinating history.

I wish this episode were more widely known. The French RU are forever shamed by their collaboration with the Nazi's. The Rugby boys associated with the fascists while the French Rugby League aligned themselves with the communists. Rugby used their Nazi mates to outlaw league and to steal their assets, including their players.

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.

Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league’s assets were stolen and given to union. It’s a fascinating history.

I wish this episode were more widely known. The French RU are forever shamed by their collaboration with the Nazi's. The Rugby boys associated with the fascists while the French Rugby League aligned themselves with the communists. Rugby used their Nazi mates to outlaw league and to steal their assets, including their players.

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.

Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

Thanks for this info. Really interesting and I had no idea.

 

[Papacito]

It sounds like Rupert Murdoch is trying to cash out given the dwindling broadcast tv audiences and the NRL don't want the game's international footprint to shrink.

Buying a business that's on the way down is almost never a good move, regardless of cost or pipe dreams of turnings things around.

With the NRL's recent financial problems, this looks like a very risky move with little upside.

 

[TillLindemann]

Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league’s assets were stolen and given to union. It’s a fascinating history.

I wish this episode were more widely known. The French RU are forever shamed by their collaboration with the Nazi's. The Rugby boys associated with the fascists while the French Rugby League aligned themselves with the communists. Rugby used their Nazi mates to outlaw league and to steal their assets, including their players.

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.

Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

The French government even outlawed the name 'rugby league'. They instead had to call themselves 'the game of 13'. It was only relatively recently (1990s or early 2000s I think, under President Jacques Chirac), that they were allowed to call themselves rugby league again.

I think Toulouse's entry would be a big step, as it would allow a French derby. Catalans get good local support, but they never get to play a French opponent. And Toulouse is a lot bigger city than Perpignan.

 

[jirskyr]

It’s correct that it’s a limited geographic area, but it still contains a big population. I would expect Yorkshire and Lancashire would have a bigger population than NSW and Queensland.

No, not even close. Population of QLD is 5M, of NSW is 7.54M.

Brits have funny ways of demarcation, e.g. "ceremonial counties" vs "built-up areas" vs city populations. E.g. Liverpool city is 500K, Liverpool Urban is 856K, Liverpool Metro is 2.24M.

But if you look at EU-defined metro areas, the Manchester area is 2.55M, the Leeds-Bradford area is 2.3M and the Liverpool area is 2.24M. All those combined are still less than NSW alone.

And this is to include the big cities of Liverpool and Manchester that don't technically have teams themselves, though cities/towns on their peripheries do have ESL teams.

And to note that rugby league is often not the top sport even within those populations.

 

[Deleted member 3518]

Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league’s assets were stolen and given to union. It’s a fascinating history.

I wish this episode were more widely known. The French RU are forever shamed by their collaboration with the Nazi's. The Rugby boys associated with the fascists while the French Rugby League aligned themselves with the communists. Rugby used their Nazi mates to outlaw league and to steal their assets, including their players.

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.

Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

Wasn’t the royal family nazi sympathisers as well ? Seems like the blue bloods , didn’t care much for anyone who wasn’t a rich white psychopath.

 

[jirskyr]

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.
Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

The famous Puig Aubert.

The issue was that post-war all the old League players came back to the game, but they were unable to sustain the junior ranks and no longer had the facilities / commercial backing.

People even forget how recently the French were still competitive - apart from the famous 1951 and 1955 winning tours of Australia, and the first Rugby League World Cup held in Paris 1954, the French won series against touring Australian sides in 1968 and 1978. To give that context, the 1968 and 1978 Kangaroo tours were winning tours over Great Britain, but the French didn't lose a game.

The reality of those times however is in the support - crowds of 20-30K in Britain, but only 5K in France for famous touring Kangaroo sides.

I fear, without knowing more about the current game in France from personal experience, that Union is basically dominant country-wide, even though the French are aware of their history with "Rugby a Treize".

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Historically rugby league was massive in the south of France, but it was outlawed by the Nazi-collaborating Vichy regime, then the French government, and all of rugby league’s assets were stolen and given to union. It’s a fascinating history.

I wish this episode were more widely known. The French RU are forever shamed by their collaboration with the Nazi's. The Rugby boys associated with the fascists while the French Rugby League aligned themselves with the communists. Rugby used their Nazi mates to outlaw league and to steal their assets, including their players.

I remember as a kid people still talking about the great French team of 1951, that came out here and beat Australia 2 - 1. Their team contained many great players. Their victory was so popular at home that when they returned to Marseille, more than 150,000 people turned out for a street parade.

Sadly, French Rugby League went into a slow decline after that and its difficult to see how interest in the sport can be rekindled.

Wasn’t the royal family nazi sympathisers as well ? Seems like the blue bloods , didn’t care much for anyone who wasn’t a rich white psychopath.

Yes they were, they were of German Bloodline. They only changed their house name to Windsor in 1914 (I think?) from *Saxe-Coburg and Gotha* largely due to the war.

 

[fibrodreaming]

Wasn’t the royal family nazi sympathisers as well ?

Certainly Edward was pro-German/Nazi and supported the fascist movement in Britain. As CB mentions above, they were descended from German royalty.

He was regarded as a security risk and monitored by MI5.

After he abdicated in 1936 he traveled to Germany at Hitler's invitation and many suspected he reached an agreement with Hitler that when he conquered England, Edward would return and be re-installed as King.

 

[kiwitiger]

Maybe the Brisbane broncos can join and become the 12th team and relive there super league dream. They might not finish last either!
Still makes me laugh...the broncos finished last.

 

[kiwitiger]

Also RL nearly died in France because in the 60s 70s and 80s rugby union was not amateur. Union brought the good league players. The FRU decided to pay players and no one cared. It was not amateur.