Pascoe Held to Account

[cochise]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

 

[jirskyr]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

The specifics of it are not truly known.

All I know is - we offered Farah a post-retirement deal and got in trouble. I can easily count 20 players at other clubs currently on post-retirement deals.

Anyone reckon Cooper Cronk didn't already know he would get a Roosters gig as part of his deal to finish his final 2 years with them? I don't care by which machination the Chooks may or may not have reconciled all of this with the NRL, it's handled unevenly.

 

[cochise]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

The specifics of it are not truly known.

All I know is - we offered Farah a post-retirement deal and got in trouble. I can easily count 20 players at other clubs currently on post-retirement deals.

Anyone reckon Cooper Cronk didn't already know he would get a Roosters gig as part of his deal to finish his final 2 years with them? I don't care by which machination the Chooks may or may not have reconciled all of this with the NRL, it's handled unevenly.

You can't say that though as we didn't give the NRL a chance to handle it fairly as we didn't inform them of the deal. We then tried to claim he was destabilising despite the fact we were planning on paying him to come back.

 

[gallagher]

Pascoe pout his hand up, eventually, and admitted fault. Apologised.

Same old guys defending the club when it's clear they stuffed up. Employees perhaps?

 

[Tiger5150]

Pascoe pout his hand up, eventually, and admitted fault. Apologised.

Same old guys defending the club when it's clear they stuffed up. Employees perhaps?

Gal, its clear and obvious you dont like Pascoe and you are entitled to but as you said he put his hand up, copped it and the club was fined. Clearly you think he should have been sacked.

Clearly a mistake was made with Farah, its a mistake. Is a mistake not premissible, especially when offset by all the good achievements Pascoe has made (recurring increases in membership, first profit ever, reliably good finances, new and increased sponsorship etc)?

 

[tigerbalm]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

The specifics of it are not truly known.

All I know is - we offered Farah a post-retirement deal and got in trouble. I can easily count 20 players at other clubs currently on post-retirement deals.

Anyone reckon Cooper Cronk didn't already know he would get a Roosters gig as part of his deal to finish his final 2 years with them? I don't care by which machination the Chooks may or may not have reconciled all of this with the NRL, it's handled unevenly.

Strange point to make.
Everyone else is doing it, West's just got caught? So Pascoe can't even cheat properly?

 

[jirskyr]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

The specifics of it are not truly known.

All I know is - we offered Farah a post-retirement deal and got in trouble. I can easily count 20 players at other clubs currently on post-retirement deals.

Anyone reckon Cooper Cronk didn't already know he would get a Roosters gig as part of his deal to finish his final 2 years with them? I don't care by which machination the Chooks may or may not have reconciled all of this with the NRL, it's handled unevenly.

You can't say that though as we didn't give the NRL a chance to handle it fairly as we didn't inform them of the deal. We then tried to claim he was destabilising despite the fact we were planning on paying him to come back.

It's a technicality. There was no actual deal, Farah never signed anything off or agreed to anything in writing. Right now Farah is not a formal ambassador, right? Should we have run the plan past the NRL more thoroughly? Yes, sure. We were probably naive about which point you are supposed to inform the NRL about your thinking, well before you've made an action.

There would have been no issue even agreeing to the deal with Farah and taking it to the NRL, for them to then decline it if they saw fit. The penalty was unjust IMO. It was fair to warn Tigers or even small penalty, but to oust the CEO for 6 months and such a fine.

Or to put it in context - Joe Kelly CEO was found guilty of serious salary cap cheating at Manly to the tune of $1.5M over 5 years, so that means systematic rorting, not a single incident. Manly were fined 750K and Joe Kelly got 9 months (12, with 3 suspended). It doesn't compare to what happened to Tigers for a retirement deal gone wrong on technicality.

Re destabilising - I have no issue with how Tigers spun that. We wanted him gone as a player but back as an off-field resource. It's no different than moving an employee from one role to another, to get better results from their skillset and avoid clashes in their current role. Same as currently happening with Benji, he's being managed out.

 

[jirskyr]

Pascoe pout his hand up, eventually, and admitted fault. Apologised.

Same old guys defending the club when it's clear they stuffed up. Employees perhaps?

I'm not defending the club, I am saying NRL over-reacted compared to all the other deals done previously (and since) and all the other incidents that have occurred.

Tigers definitely stuffed up. It's another level removed from systematic long-term cheating a la Parramatta, Manly, Sharks, Storm salary cap breaches.

 

[jirskyr]

We tried to hide it from the NRL, the other clubs have worked through those roles with the NRL, that is the difference.

How on Earth can anyone say "we tried to hide it from the NRL" when it was mentioned in the papers and basically all supporters knew it was on the cards? I knew about the Farah Ambassador deal long before we got in trouble for it.

So why didn't we inform the NRL, the only people we needed to inform? Why when asked for the contracts did we say we didn't have them?

The specifics of it are not truly known.

All I know is - we offered Farah a post-retirement deal and got in trouble. I can easily count 20 players at other clubs currently on post-retirement deals.

Anyone reckon Cooper Cronk didn't already know he would get a Roosters gig as part of his deal to finish his final 2 years with them? I don't care by which machination the Chooks may or may not have reconciled all of this with the NRL, it's handled unevenly.

Strange point to make.
Everyone else is doing it, West's just got caught? So Pascoe can't even cheat properly?

No, I fail to understand how Tigers are in trouble for something that all the clubs seem to do.

It's not really relevant to me the mechanism by which we tried to get a deal done; either it's allowed or it isn't. It becomes a farce if everything is fine so long as you fill in Form 2165B and submit with three certified copies, or do the secret handshake to get the deal approved.

 

[tigerbalm]

Ok, we can’t blame Pascoe for player contracts, roster, salary cap mis management, farah gate, home ground selection and generally being a basket case that made a 100k profit

But!


Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

 

[jirskyr]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?

 

[tigerbalm]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?

A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

 

[earl]

I completely agree that it's a non issue. No one will care really soon. It's just a way to sell a few more papers but that will pass.

The club to me handled it as well as can be expected. They could have waited until the season was over. i think Benji pushed the issue and the club made the best decision they could as quickly as possible.

 

[BZN]

Pascoe has overseen some shocking over priced contracts which has kept us in a bad salary cap state.


Madge can and should take blame for Joey and Dohehi but Pascoe has not had to answer for the recruitment decision he has been a part of as the CEO.

Maybe it's time a new CEO is looked at ?

Take blame for Doueihi? What's he done wrong? Been one of our most consistent this year.

Is he playing at a level a 650k player should be performing at ? No

G'day @Wimpy-s-Well I agree with you re Doueihi, as it seems to me we have another Plodder on our hands.

 

[jirskyr]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?



A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

Yes a non-issue. I don't care if Benji was told first or second or third that he's done, he's done. He's not our girlfriend.

There is every possibility that a player or manager leaked the info and Benji is simply claiming he wasn't told. It's possible the newspapers made an educated guess. Why would the club intentionally leak the Benji decision to the media? It can't have been malpractice or poor execution - you either tell the media or you don't, something like that doesn't just slip out.

"Hi how are you today Justin?" "Good thanks we are not renewing Benji... oops should not have said that out loud". So someone has released the news for some intent.

We only have to look back 2 weeks, there's Chris Lawrence getting his tap on the shoulder and he decides to retire. Nice little press conference, everyone is happy, media can only eat the cake we served them. Good on Chris Lawrence.

How is the Benji Marshall situation different? Well Benji doesn't want to retire. That's the single difference. If he was happy to retire then he could have had the same unrolling as Lawrence, nice big presser, off into sunset etc.

So if I had to guess I'd guess the manager released the info in some attempt to control the narrative and put everyone on notice that Benji wants another deal. Force the Tigers to make a public statement, make Benji look like the innocent party, save some credibility for Benji's 2021 deal. Otherwise, the Tigers make the statement with or without Benji's consent and he really looks like a spent force now.

In regards to nobody caring in 4 weeks, I mean the manner in which it unfolded. Everyone will care Benji is playing his last game. Nobody will care if he was told fast enough or not.

And yes everyone knew this was on the cards. Everyone knew the club was weighing up resigning Benji or not. Same as everyone knows Cam Smith is weighing up his options. It's been in the papers for months, speculation on who might retire in 2020. My Dad wasn't surprised and he doesn't read anything on the internet whatsoever.

Now Benji could have helped himself with better performances over the past 8 weeks, but unfortunately that hasn't happened. It's his own form that's led to the decision being made, and Tigers should not be fingered for that lack of form. If he was going well enough we'd keep him on.

 

[TigerWest]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?



A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

Yes a non-issue. I don't care if Benji was told first or second or third that he's done, he's done. He's not our girlfriend.

There is every possibility that a player or manager leaked the info and Benji is simply claiming he wasn't told. It's possible the newspapers made an educated guess. Why would the club intentionally leak the Benji decision to the media? It can't have been malpractice or poor execution - you either tell the media or you don't, something like that doesn't just slip out.

"Hi how are you today Justin?" "Good thanks we are not renewing Benji... oops should not have said that out loud". So someone has released the news for some intent.

We only have to look back 2 weeks, there's Chris Lawrence getting his tap on the shoulder and he decides to retire. Nice little press conference, everyone is happy, media can only eat the cake we served them. Good on Chris Lawrence.

How is the Benji Marshall situation different? Well Benji doesn't want to retire. That's the single difference. If he was happy to retire then he could have had the same unrolling as Lawrence, nice big presser, off into sunset etc.

So if I had to guess I'd guess the manager released the info in some attempt to control the narrative and put everyone on notice that Benji wants another deal. Force the Tigers to make a public statement, make Benji look like the innocent party, save some credibility for Benji's 2021 deal. Otherwise, the Tigers make the statement with or without Benji's consent and he really looks like a spent force now.

In regards to nobody caring in 4 weeks, I mean the manner in which it unfolded. Everyone will care Benji is playing his last game. Nobody will care if he was told fast enough or not.

And yes everyone knew this was on the cards. Everyone knew the club was weighing up resigning Benji or not. Same as everyone knows Cam Smith is weighing up his options. It's been in the papers for months, speculation on who might retire in 2020. My Dad wasn't surprised and he doesn't read anything on the internet whatsoever.

Now Benji could have helped himself with better performances over the past 8 weeks, but unfortunately that hasn't happened. It's his own form that's led to the decision being made, and Tigers should not be fingered for that lack of form. If he was going well enough we'd keep him on.

Benji's second job is working for Fox, probably his mates giving it to us, thats all. Benji's contract is finished this season it will not be renewed, that happens every day.

 

[earl]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?



A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

Yes a non-issue. I don't care if Benji was told first or second or third that he's done, he's done. He's not our girlfriend.

There is every possibility that a player or manager leaked the info and Benji is simply claiming he wasn't told. It's possible the newspapers made an educated guess. Why would the club intentionally leak the Benji decision to the media? It can't have been malpractice or poor execution - you either tell the media or you don't, something like that doesn't just slip out.

"Hi how are you today Justin?" "Good thanks we are not renewing Benji... oops should not have said that out loud". So someone has released the news for some intent.

We only have to look back 2 weeks, there's Chris Lawrence getting his tap on the shoulder and he decides to retire. Nice little press conference, everyone is happy, media can only eat the cake we served them. Good on Chris Lawrence.

How is the Benji Marshall situation different? Well Benji doesn't want to retire. That's the single difference. If he was happy to retire then he could have had the same unrolling as Lawrence, nice big presser, off into sunset etc.

So if I had to guess I'd guess the manager released the info in some attempt to control the narrative and put everyone on notice that Benji wants another deal. Force the Tigers to make a public statement, make Benji look like the innocent party, save some credibility for Benji's 2021 deal. Otherwise, the Tigers make the statement with or without Benji's consent and he really looks like a spent force now.

In regards to nobody caring in 4 weeks, I mean the manner in which it unfolded. Everyone will care Benji is playing his last game. Nobody will care if he was told fast enough or not.

And yes everyone knew this was on the cards. Everyone knew the club was weighing up resigning Benji or not. Same as everyone knows Cam Smith is weighing up his options. It's been in the papers for months, speculation on who might retire in 2020. My Dad wasn't surprised and he doesn't read anything on the internet whatsoever.

Now Benji could have helped himself with better performances over the past 8 weeks, but unfortunately that hasn't happened. It's his own form that's led to the decision being made, and Tigers should not be fingered for that lack of form. If he was going well enough we'd keep him on.

Benji's second job is working for Fox, probably his mates giving it to us, thats all. Benji's contract is finished this season it will not be renewed, that happens every day.

Exactly. This is professional sport.

 

[momo_amp_medo]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?



A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

Disagree there.

I feel that the club did everything possible to manage his departure with respect. The Chairman and the CEO met with Benji and his manager earlier this week to try and convince him to make a Retirement his decision.

He subsequently had a meeting with Madge also on the subject of his retirement and the fact that the Club needed cap space (numbers not so much $s) as NRL squad is very likely being reduced next year to 28.

Unfortunately he feels that he wants to play on and the Club needed to make moves to announce the decision. I don’t honestly believe we could have done more.

If you read the papers and see how last nights NRL360 interview was going the media is again trying to paint WT administrators and coaching staff as at fault not just regarding Benji issue but every other aspect of our club performance. The 360 guys were baiting Benji with loaded questions hoping to get today’s headlines. Luckily he was pretty composed and didn’t give them too much ammunition.

But mate really? The way you go on about this seems to me that your in their corner.

 

[old_man_tiger]

I think the club often gets this messaging about player movements wrong. My reading is we are very insecure about coming across as weak or passive so JP likes to be proactive and put things to bed ASAP.

I think I understand why he does it, as the speculation is very damaging. Initially I thought the Marshall statement was an error, as statements about the big 4, Cleary, Mitchell etc... Have not helped us change our image or deflect criticism. My concern was that the club believes in a narrative of the haves and have nots and are desperately trying to appear like a stable and powerful club. This type of zero sum thinking only works for the real powerhouses.

However, a club like us are much better served by treating all negotiations as a potential win/win scenario - Pascoe can definitely do this, look at the swap deal with Melbourne and his work to get the COE funded.

Reading it this way, the statement is good. I think the strategy of creating a stronger culture to help bring unpolished juniors through and turn them into stars is probably the right one, and if you read it in that light Pascoe's statement says something powerful to young players who are considering the switch to WTs - your pathway won't be blocked and we want you to be the future.

So, there are multiple ways to read this and ultimately the future outcomes will tell us if JP was successful or not.

 

[tigerbalm]

Can we blame him for the way Benji’s departure has been completely screwed up? If what the guy says is true an he read it in the paper this club is a joke and Pascoe has to be the next one out. How can he not try to control the narrative of this situation ( which was always going to be tough) and make sure the club didn’t take a hammering in the press. The guy is a complete liability to the club.

No because it's a non-issue and nobody will care about it in 4 weeks.

The fans knew the end was coming for Benji, how is it remotely possible he nor his manager could tell this was coming?



A non issue? Wow cop that Benji.

No one will care in 4 weeks? You mean when Benji plays his last game for the tigers or when the media circus of where Benji will play kicks into overgear? The media is going to have fun with this.

Fans knew? You have to understand most fans don’t hang around this place. They didn’t know.Either way, he leaves/stays/retires, the club should’ve controlled this to minimize the fallout.

Pascoe failed again.

Disagree there.

I feel that the club did everything possible to manage his departure with respect. The Chairman and the CEO met with Benji and his manager earlier this week to try and convince him to make a Retirement his decision.

He subsequently had a meeting with Madge also on the subject of his retirement and the fact that the Club needed cap space (numbers not so much $s) as NRL squad is very likely being reduced next year to 28.

Unfortunately he feels that he wants to play on and the Club needed to make moves to announce the decision. I don’t honestly believe we could have done more.

If you read the papers and see how last nights NRL360 interview was going the media is again trying to paint WT administrators and coaching staff as at fault not just regarding Benji issue but every other aspect of our club performance. The 360 guys were baiting Benji with loaded questions hoping to get today’s headlines. Luckily he was pretty composed and didn’t give them too much ammunition.

But mate really? The way you go on about this seems to me that your in their corner.

I think you and the other bloke are missing the point.

Benji was done at the club, 100% agree. Benji can play on next year at another club if he want's or retire, i dont really care to be honest. What i do care about is the handling of the situation. Wests have a history of poorly managing high profile player exists. This just shows that nothing has changed.

You are speculating that Benji is the issue and I am speculating that Pascoe is the issue, one thing i know is there has been a collection of non-Benji related PR nightmares and the only single constant is Pascoe.

As for banging on about it? huh? wake up and pull your head out of the sand. I'm on the clubs side. I just dont swallow everything they put out like some. Ultimately i want the club to succeed. To do this they need someone that can control the narrative.

Anyways, i dont want to " bang on".