Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[spudoakes]

What the hell does a school need with _**two**_ libraries?
in my boys schools they upgraded 5 class rooms and built a new libary ( the old one was a leaking demountable) im happy for my tax to go there then in the fat cats wallets where do u want your tax to go howards retirement fund

 

[Yossarian]

What a load of rubbish. If your numbers are to be believed all it means is 85% of voters (are you suggesting the Greens are a "main party"? If not does it matter how ALP or Lib voters follow the HTV??) CHOOSE to follow the HTV they are given. Nobody forces them to do anything and for you to suggest some big evil ALP-Green alliance is compelling unwilling voters to follow a HTV you are being disingenuous at best.

Like I said the flow of preference from Christian Democrats (Fred Nile) and Family First is a lot more solid than Greens to ALP but nobody sane actually thinks Fred Nile forces his voters to choose the Libs as a second preference.

No you read it wrong. What I said was (and sorry I can't find the link now, it was something I read last night online) that most voters when picking up the HTV card from either main parties (ALP, Libs - I didn't say Greens were a major party as if) that 85% of those voters will copy out the 1,2,3,4 etc preferences as advised by the main party they are voting for. So when voting for instance for ALP, they have an agreement with Greens so that they are listed as an ALP preference number 2\. And the Greens will do that for ALP as their number 2\. So when the Greens don't win (and they won't) we know that anyone who filled out the preferences as advised by the Greens would be putting ALP as preference 2, helping Labor get more seats against their competitors. Hope that makes sense, I am not too great at getting my point out in text.

Anyway here is a link that might help people understand the Greens deal with ALP.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/07/19/2957323.htm

Ah okay. No I understand what you are saying but dispute the initial criticism. Besides that figure for Greens HTV voting is much less than 85%. Of course the deal makes perfect sense politically - Labor would rather have their surplus Senate vote going to a party on the left (especially after the debacle in Victoria last time). Likewise forced to make a choice, the Greens would rather the ALP win seats since they are closer to them ideologically than the Libs.

But to suggest it is anything other than a preference swap in a falsehood. All parties make deals like this. The Libs to their damnation made one with One Nation, and to their credit saw the folly of this. Same with the fundamentalist parties. I'd be fairly certain that the first party of any substance getting Lib senate preferences will be Family First. Again it makes sense for both of these parties to come to this agreement.

Also I'll again make the point that HTV papers are just suggestions and any voter can choose to ignore them. It's not like you MUST vote 1 Green 2 ALP or vice versa.
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Anyway if you are interested in the value of the ALP-Green swap, this is a good read
http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2010/07/green-preferences-at-the-2007-election.html#more" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically Green (Anthony not the party!) calculates that around 70% of Green voters give their 2nd preference to Labor with a +/- depending on the position of ALP and Lib on the ballot. From personal experience the flow for Family First and/or CDP seems a bit higher than that.

 

[Yossarian]

For those who missed the Alan Jones segment

http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=6672

was that the segment where aj got caught in the toilets in the uk
yeah lets vote liberal no penalty rates, no public hoildays etc
at least the labor party put money into the schools which was needed even if it wasnt well policed

I don't know why she would bother going on his show. Jones is a failed Liberal Party candidate.

 

[stryker]

For those who missed the Alan Jones segment

http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=6672

was that the segment where aj got caught in the toilets in the uk
**yeah lets vote liberal no penalty rates, no public hoildays** etc
at least the labor party put money into the schools which was needed even if it wasnt well policed

If you believe that then all power to you!

 

[Yossarian]

Here is a spreadsheet with a list of policies and whether parties are opposed or in support of them.

http://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?key=tLBnCYZYTiTlDoreuUMxT7A&hl=en#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How anyone can justify voting for either party baffles me. If everyone actually stopped buying the propaganda and voted for a third party then the two party power trip would finally end.

Liberals:
Oppose almost everything about Lesbian and Gay Rights including Same Sex Parenting, Anti-Discrimination, Same Sex Marriage and State Based Relationship Register
Support the withdrawal of UN Treaties on immigration and refugees
Oppose harm minimisation strategies as a way to combat narcotic dependency
Oppose carbon pricing
Oppose the NATIONAL BROADBAND NETWORK
Oppose the structural separation of Telstra

They will have us destroy this planet and offer assistance to nobody. They don't seem to represent the Australian cultural image.

Labor:
Oppose increasing spending on mental illness… something that is responsible for almost every homeless case
Oppose, though slightly lesser, lesbian and gay rights related policies
Support the mandatory internet filter! WTF!?
Oppose the national classification system that would allow adult classified video games to finally be available in this country
Oppose corporate taxation increases, though counter that with their mining company tax (something I actually support)
Support tax exempt status for religions (apparently the religious zealot Tony Abbott does not have an opinion either way)

Of course I am highlighting what I say as the negative points in their cases. Click the link to see the positives. In my opinion though, the Greens policies are a far cry from as negative as either of these parties. And as a result I will be voting for them as 1 and for ASP as 2, with no other preferences listed on my card.

Save yourself the time - that's an informal vote. You might as well put in the ballot paper blank.

 

[stryker]

What the hell does a school need with _**two**_ libraries?

in my boys schools they upgraded 5 class rooms and built a new libary ( the old one was a leaking demountable) im happy for my tax to go there then in the fat cats wallets where do u want your tax to go howards retirement fund

You do realise that work cost 3 times what it should have dont you?

 

[spudoakes]

If you believe that then all power to you!
lets ask the nurses and coalminers what they think
the unions never started a howard fighting fund for nothin

 

[stryker]

For those who missed the Alan Jones segment

http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=6672

was that the segment where aj got caught in the toilets in the uk
yeah lets vote liberal no penalty rates, no public hoildays etc
at least the labor party put money into the schools which was needed even if it wasnt well policed

I don't know why she would bother going on his show. Jones is a failed Liberal Party candidate.

She had to mate he has one of the countries biggest audiences that arent pre-pubescent girls and he's not afraid to ask the hard questions.

 

[spudoakes]

What the hell does a school need with _**two**_ libraries?

in my boys schools they upgraded 5 class rooms and built a new libary ( the old one was a leaking demountable) im happy for my tax to go there then in the fat cats wallets where do u want your tax to go howards retirement fund

You do realise that work cost 3 times what it should have dont you?
in that school the principle voted liberal

 

[stryker]

If you believe that then all power to you!

lets ask the nurses and coalminers what they think
the unions never started a howard fighting fund for nothin

Oh yeah and we all know the unions are standup people….

 

[stryker]

What the hell does a school need with _**two**_ libraries?

in my boys schools they upgraded 5 class rooms and built a new libary ( the old one was a leaking demountable) im happy for my tax to go there then in the fat cats wallets where do u want your tax to go howards retirement fund

You do realise that work cost 3 times what it should have dont you?

in that school the principle voted liberal

So what? he didnt run or oversee this absolute rort of yours and my tax money

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

What the hell does a school need with _**two**_ libraries?

in my boys schools they upgraded 5 class rooms and built a new libary ( the old one was a leaking demountable) im happy for my tax to go there then in the fat cats wallets where do u want your tax to go howards retirement fund

Of course I'm more than happy for government money to be spent upgrading the public schools, but it was a poorly thought out and poorly executed scheme. The only real beneficiaries of this were the builders who pocketed an absolute fortune for these projects by basically writing their own cheque. Sure a few schools may have got some classrooms or a canteen they desperately needed, but there are schools that are having second halls and libraries built that will serve absolutely no purpose to them.

The government should have spent more time on the scheme appointing qualified people to conduct a strict tendering process to ensure the government was getting value on every single project that went ahead. In one instance, it cost $850,000 to build a canteen! It was poor form by the government to let these inflated submissions be signed off on without questioning them at the very least.

I suppose you will tell me the insulation scheme was a success as well…

 

[spudoakes]

[

Of course I'm more than happy for government money to be spent upgrading the public schools, but it was a poorly thought out and poorly executed scheme. The only real beneficiaries of this were the builders who pocketed an absolute fortune for these projects by basically writing their own cheque. Sure a few schools may have got some classrooms or a canteen they desperately needed, but there are schools that are having second halls and libraries built that will serve absolutely no purpose to them.

The government should have spent more time on the scheme appointing qualified people to conduct a strict tendering process to ensure the government was getting value on every single project that went ahead. In one instance, it cost $850,000 to build a canteen! It was poor form by the government to let these inflated submissions be signed off on without questioning them at the very least.

great idea lets throw more tax money at commitees maybe we would not have needed such extensive work done in schools if the last government hadnt robbed the education system if u ask me and nobody would why do we waste money on state governments we should a centralised system for the whole of australia

 

[hammertime]

All spin… Give us a real person! How are they going to charge different tax rates to different resource profits under 1 company? BHP will just throw their depreciables against the highest tax rate, and all their profits against the lowest. Unless there are some large audit expenses to administer this tax.

When labor get back in I'm taking my tax dollars to Hong Kong...all the league games are telecast live still!

 

[Suzie-Q]

Of course I'm more than happy for government money to be spent upgrading the public schools, but it was a poorly thought out and poorly executed scheme. The only real beneficiaries of this were the builders who pocketed an absolute fortune for these projects by basically writing their own cheque. Sure a few schools may have got some classrooms or a canteen they desperately needed, but there are schools that are having second halls and libraries built that will serve absolutely no purpose to them.

The government should have spent more time on the scheme appointing qualified people to conduct a strict tendering process to ensure the government was getting value on every single project that went ahead. In one instance, it cost $850,000 to build a canteen! It was poor form by the government to let these inflated submissions be signed off on without questioning them at the very least.

I suppose you will tell me the insulation scheme was a success as well…

Our classrooms were all upgraded, but all are dodgy. Our *wonderful* COLA, which cost half a mill, doesn't even have powerpoints, virtually rendering it useless for all its intended uses.

If Gillard was fair dinkum about improving public education, instead of implementing ridiculous websites on minimal information, and pouring billions of dollars into dodgy brothers building services, she'd have overhauled the public funding of private schools, put that money into extra teachers and implementing support in our classrooms, actually helping the children who need it.

 

[spudoakes]

Oh yeah and we all know the unions are standup people….

what about the people who are in them

 

[rollingstone]

I wonder if all you liberal voters have jobs. Going by your spelling and grammar you certainly didn't have an education. Anyway if you do have jobs, you would do well to consider what your employment situation would have been if the Liberal party had been in power. According to the World bank and the International Monetary Fund, under the policies espoused by the Liberals, more than 200,000 Australians would have lost their jobs and thousands of businesses would have gone broke. Australia, instead of being in a growth phase would be in a deep recession. Instead, we have low unemployment, high spending on infrastructure, a budget deficit so small that it is the envy of all major economies and a national debt which was described by Treasury as negligible. Our economy is known around the world as "the wonder from down under".

You probably owe your livelihood to the Labor Party, your kids either have or soon will have a laptop computer, you can go to a hospital which has substantially more nurses than when Tony Abbott as Health Minister took the axe to their numbers. All this, and you would go back to a political party which will reintroduce the worst aspects of Work Choices to cut your wages and conditions and allow your boss to sack you without a reasonable excuse.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

:laughing: What a load of tripe.

The Labor party have been in rule for less than three years, and all the cronies want to attribute the relative stability of Australia during the 'GFC' to an extremely successful Labor government. Let us not forget that the Liberals ran this country for just shy of twelve years up until late 2007.

Go dye your hair brown Julia.

A load of tripe, eh? Sounds typical of a Tory especially as you have been completely unable to refute one point that I made. Nevertheless, I'll go ahead and dissect your statement about the 12 years of Liberal rule and the GFC.

The GFC only came about after Labor was elected and was handled by Labor in the ways that I have described. You will not find anybody in the World Bank, IMF, Reserve Bank or Treasury who supported the Liberal policy of sitting on their hands while the nation plunged into recession and double digit unemployment. Indeed, if you watched the 7.30 report tonight you would have seen an adviser to the US President saying that Australia handled the crisis better than any other country in the world.

Now, about 12 long years of Liberal rule. Tell me what they achieved. They squandered the resources boom on blatant pork barreling and if you believe otherwise point to some major infrastructure that they funded; maybe the Stockmans Hall of Fame? Maybe you see Work Choices as an achievement?

Apart from your unfounded analysis of my comments those are the only points that are discernible from your mostly silly rant.

 

[hammertime]

[

Of course I'm more than happy for government money to be spent upgrading the public schools, but it was a poorly thought out and poorly executed scheme. The only real beneficiaries of this were the builders who pocketed an absolute fortune for these projects by basically writing their own cheque. Sure a few schools may have got some classrooms or a canteen they desperately needed, but there are schools that are having second halls and libraries built that will serve absolutely no purpose to them.

The government should have spent more time on the scheme appointing qualified people to conduct a strict tendering process to ensure the government was getting value on every single project that went ahead. In one instance, it cost $850,000 to build a canteen! It was poor form by the government to let these inflated submissions be signed off on without questioning them at the very least.

great idea lets throw more tax money at commitees maybe we would not have needed such extensive work done in schools if the last government hadnt robbed the education system if u ask me and nobody would why do we waste money on state governments we should a centralised system for the whole of australia

Here, here.

Honestly, all they actually needed to do is have the p&c committees source the builders and quotes. Instead of a beurecacy. But, like not eliminating foil insulation, they didn't research or think about the policy structure…. Nor did they fix either when things started going wrong!

 

[stryker]

[
great idea lets throw more tax money at commitees maybe we would not have needed such extensive work done in schools if the last government hadnt robbed the education system

:laughing: Mate it's your mobs only solution to any problem to throw millions at committee's haven't you ever noticed this?

…and sure some schools needed extensive works but the majority didn't...the works were forced upon them! You talk like a Labor staffer......

 

[spudoakes]

[
great idea lets throw more tax money at commitees maybe we would not have needed such extensive work done in schools if the last government hadnt robbed the education system

:laughing: Mate it's your mobs only solution to any problem to throw millions at committee's haven't you ever noticed this?

…and sure some schools needed extensive works but the majority didn't...the works were forced upon them! You talk like a Labor staffer......

didnt realise you had been and researched every school australia as i said before my bpys school has greatly appreciated it mayb the area u live in :brick: