Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[stryker]

Yeah cause keeping Australia out of recession during the GFC and keeping interest rates low is selling out the country. If the Libs did the same thing you'd be tripping over your feet to kiss their boots.

Your giving Labor far too much credit for keeping us out of recession there mate. I think the boys in Western Australia and northern Queensland had a lot to do with it.

 

[Blackpearl]

so all things being equal we should get three or four front pages of the news ltd press as well as the media attack DOGS aka alan jones, andrew bolt, ray hadley so on and so on ripping into the obvious LIES and memory losses of the YAPPING POODLE, christopher pyne and mal bRUFF about their collusion with that ashby fella putting the slipper into poor peter. and what of the soulless leader of the opposition mr rabbitt …. the silence is deafening !! knock knock where are you tony ??

labor, you cheese me off. get onto the front foot and attack the policy vacuum that is the no-alition and expose them for the grubby charlatans that they really are.

mr ashby should have remembered that if you lie with dogs you get fleas.

 

[hammertime]

Yeah cause keeping Australia out of recession during the GFC and keeping interest rates low is selling out the country. If the Libs did the same thing you'd be tripping over your feet to kiss their boots.

Mate, it's very easy to spend a lot of money…

Now, doing it effectively, with long term vision (i.e. intergenerational issues) and no waste is a different matter.

 

[dermo]

Yeah cause keeping Australia out of recession during the GFC and keeping interest rates low is selling out the country. If the Libs did the same thing you'd be tripping over your feet to kiss their boots.

Now im no economist but i would've figured that we stayed out of a recession more due to the strength of our economy prior to the GFC and because GFC or not ol mate china still needed our coal to power the computers that were telling them there was a GFC

 

[Yossarian]

Yeah cause keeping Australia out of recession during the GFC and keeping interest rates low is selling out the country. If the Libs did the same thing you'd be tripping over your feet to kiss their boots.

Now im no economist but i would've figured that we stayed out of a recession more due to the strength of our economy prior to the GFC and because GFC or not ol mate china still needed our coal to power the computers that were telling them there was a GFC

Well there are plenty of economists who have highly praised the government's handling of the GFC. Plenty of other countries had supposedly strong economies before the GFC hit but by all means if you don't want to give Swan any credit you can join the rest of the peanut gallery bagging him. I'll be in the other peanut gallery by the way!

 

[Balmain_Bobby]

Yeah cause keeping Australia out of recession during the GFC and keeping interest rates low is selling out the country. If the Libs did the same thing you'd be tripping over your feet to kiss their boots.

Now im no economist but i would've figured that we stayed out of a recession more due to the strength of our economy prior to the GFC and because GFC or not ol mate china still needed our coal to power the computers that were telling them there was a GFC

Well there are plenty of economists who have highly praised the government's handling of the GFC. Plenty of other countries had supposedly strong economies before the GFC hit but by all means if you don't want to give Swan any credit you can join the rest of the peanut gallery bagging him. I'll be in the other peanut gallery by the way!

That's funny, Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs. She admitted they failed to realise how closely our economy was aligned with the Asian Market ( China ), and that our minerals boom wouldn't slow down but maintain and increase. All of our surplus gone, half of our futures fund depleted, and massive borrowing, all for nothing, when all that was required was " Steady as you go ".

Now what countries voted for Wayne Swan as " World's best Treasurer " ? Somalia ? Mozambique ? Greece ?, or perhaps countries that value the US Dollar as a world currency, and got caught. It was US lending practices that gave us the GFC, and did the Labor Government learn from that ? No, they go and borrow millions per day and live beyond their means, as many Australians do. Gillard and Co are doing it on the basis that the minerals boom won't slow down anytime soon, but while that does wonders for tinkies and twiggy's in adding billions to their coffers, and the governments, it does very little for low and middle income earners in Australia, many of whom will not be able to heat their houses this winter because of the rising cost of energy thanks to the carbon tax.

In a country like Australia, where prime Lamb is sold overseas at $3.00 per Kl on the hoof, and Australians pay around $12.00 per K, there is something very wrong with any government of any persuasion, who allows it's citizens to become second class in their own country.
We missed the GFC because of Peter Costello's handling of our economy, and his understanding of World Economics.
He warned mid 2007 of a " World Financial Tsunami " heading our way, and had taken necessary steps to insulate our economy. Pity Swan was more enthralled with knifing Kevin in the back than raising objections to the " handout's ", any " Worlds Best Treasurer " would of not allowed it, and been more in touch with our economy and known we didn't need to support pubs and clubs, and Santa Claus, because that's where most of the money went, less that 7% saved, or paid some of their mortgage with it.
As usual Yossarian, your :deadhorse:

 

[Yossarian]

As usual you're merging a whole bunch of snippets to try and fudge a point. The World's Best Treasurer award was given to Swan by Euromoney which even the yahoos at the Murchoch press caleld "distinguished".
http://www.news.com.au/national/wayne-swan-is-euromoneys-finance-minister-of-the-year/story-e6frfkvr-1226142199651

"Steady as you go" would have led to a deep recession. You see people removing money from the economy leads to less spending leads to less employment leads to less revenue. The Mining Industry earns a lot of export revenue but employs a fairly minor proportion of the population.

When exactly did Gillard "Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs"?

The GFC had little or nothing to do with Peter Costello apart from his role, along with Keating before him in maintaining a highly functional economy. Howard as treasurer sat on his hands for 8 years. Costello has now not been treasurer for 5 years and yet we have:

* low interest rates
* low inflation
* low unemployment
* a dollar above parity
* growth rates above other comparible economies in the developed world

Criticism is just partisan. I can give Costello credit where he earned it, some of you can't bring yourself to give Wayne Swan the same courtesy.

 

[Winnipeg]

That's funny, Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs.

Have you got a link to any article where Gillard is quoted as saying that? I don't remember it.

All of our surplus gone, half of our futures fund depleted, and massive borrowing, all for nothing

That's untrue about the future fund, it wasn't 'raided' as some may have put it. While some money may have been handed out to keep the retail sector rolling and keep people employed, other funds were spent on infrastructure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Government_Future_Fund

_'In the 2008 and 2009 federal budgets, there was a deficit of A$27 and A$57 billion respectively, yet during these years the Australian Government added a further A$41 billion into the Fund.[16][dead link] The 2008 federal budget created a A$20 billion Building Australia Fund to invest in roads, rail, ports and broadband; an $11 billion Education Investment Fund, which absorbed a similar $6 billion fund set up by the previous government; and a A$10 billion Health and Hospital Fund. These new funds were established and administration placed in the hands of the Future Fund, on behalf of the government.'_
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did the Labor Government learn from that ? No, they go and borrow millions per day and live beyond their means, as many Australians do.

Federal Govt debt is actually very manageable despite the mind boggling 'billions of millions' figures thrown around by some people in the media

http://www.budget.gov.au/2011-12/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst7-01.htm

_'Australia's level of net debt remains extremely low by international standards (Chart A). Australian Government net debt is expected to peak at 7.2 per cent of GDP in 2011-12, which is less than one tenth of the average net debt position of the major advanced economies in 2011\. The peak in Australia's net debt compares with the net debt position of the United States, which the IMF projects will continue to increase until at least the end of 2016.'_
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Gillard and Co are doing it on the basis that the minerals boom won't slow down anytime soon, but while that does wonders for tinkies and twiggy's in adding billions to their coffers, and the governments, it does very little for low and middle income earners in Australia, many of whom will not be able to heat their houses this winter because of the rising cost of energy thanks to the carbon tax.

Low income earners will benefit from a trebling of the tax free threshold. It remains to be seen whether anyone will freeze to death, but on current estimates I very much doubt it.

http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/04/12/what-electricity-will-really-cost-under-a-carbon-tax/

_For example, the impact of the carbon price on the average annual household electricity bill in NSW in 2012-13 will be: $23 x 0.89 x 1.0 x 7 x 1.05 x 1.1 = $165 (or $3.18 per week). (This assumes that 100% of the carbon price is passed onto consumers.) To put this in perspective, it constitutes 0.18% of average household income in NSW._
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We missed the GFC because of Peter Costello's handling of our economy, and his understanding of World Economics.
He warned mid 2007 of a " World Financial Tsunami " heading our way, and had taken necessary steps to insulate our economy.

He also said that unsustainable growth in China would be the main cause of this 'tsunami'

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/10/25/1192941243214.html
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Chinese growth and inflation has now largely stabilised

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/07/uk-china-economy-inflation-idUKBRE84608720120507
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So I guess in that sense he got it almost as wrong as Gillard and Swan did.

 

[stryker]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

More handouts for those who contribute the least, a reniging of a promised business tax cut and higher taxes on self funded retirees Superannuation.

Under labor those who get off their arse and have a go are always the whipping boys. Also Swan promissing a surplus in the next year is highly questionable. He was wrong by 20 Billion with his predictions last year.....

 

[Yossarian]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

You bagging the budget? Didn't see that coming either. And people on 300k don't need tax breaks for super.

 

[Winnipeg]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

yep, plenty of bribes in there in the true Howard/Costello tradition.
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Swan promissing a surplus in the next year is highly questionable. He was wrong by 20 Billion with his predictions last year…..

again, it's not Swan sitting there with a pen and pad doing sums, it's the Federal Treasury. They are often wrong with their predictions, future economic conditions are not easy to predict.

 

[system]

A small surplus is acceptable.

Anything like the surplus being touted means the government is failing in its obligations to it's citizens. I held that belief under the coalition and I still hold it now.

A healthy ecconomy should never be in surplus or defecit consistently. It should be a mixture of the two.

As it stands we will have billions in the coffer while we fail our citizens in terms of services, we fail those who are in need on foreign aid and we fail small business.

This has been the case for three Prime Ministers budgets now.

It seems it is taking the easier road yet again because surplus plays well in the media

 

[Balmain_Bobby]

When exactly did Gillard "Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs"?

I guess some of you never watch " Parliament ", or listen to interviews with politicians, and some have never heard of google. It's all there, but as I said before, there is nothing more empty than a closed mind.
( they assumed China would go into recession, instead of powering on and continueing to maintain massive growth.)

The Labor Government has done some good things, the rationalisation of the transport industry will be fantastic for Australia, and the economy, and they did lift pensions up, but not enough for our poorer Aussies, and last night didn't help much at all, for strugglinging middle to low income earners. Funny how people mention Mr. 17.5% interest rate Keating, and " the recession we had to have ", one of the all time lowest, morally bankrupt prime ministers in our short history, and I have some very strong labor/union friends, who will swear to that.

 

[Yossarian]

When exactly did Gillard "Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs"?

I guess some of you never watch " Parliament ", or listen to interviews with politicians, and some have never heard of google. It's all there, but as I said before, there is nothing more empty than a closed mind.
( they assumed China would go into recession, instead of powering on and continueing to maintain massive growth.)

The Labor Government has done some good things, the rationalisation of the transport industry will be fantastic for Australia, and the economy, and they did lift pensions up, but not enough for our poorer Aussies, and last night didn't help much at all, for strugglinging middle to low income earners. Funny how people mention Mr. 17.5% interest rate Keating, and " the recession we had to have ", one of the all time lowest, morally bankrupt prime ministers in our short history, and I have some very strong labor/union friends, who will swear to that.

Ah so you make a claim and when someone asks for details it's up to us to find out if it's true or not? Yeah okay… :laughing:

Interest rates were 21.4% when Howard was treasurer... Morally bankrupt? I've met the man a few times and members of his family. Never heard anything morally bankrupt about them. You don't think there are people within the Labor/Union movement who don't hate Keating for political reasons? Keating also deregulated the banks and floated the dollar amongst other things "Honest" John was never able to achieve in 8 years.

As for closed minds you'd certainly know about that.

 

[stryker]

again, it's not Swan sitting there with a pen and pad doing sums, it's the Federal Treasury. They are often wrong with their predictions, future economic conditions are not easy to predict.

No.1, drop the condescending tone. I know how it works. He is the figurehead and thats why I named him.

No.2, This budget has nothing to do with economics. It is all about perception in the media and happily, the Australian public is not as stupid as Labor would hope. Your answer smacks of the obvious contempt that Labor shows every project they are ever involved with. What a soft excuse you have come up with there.

Labors last budget predicted just a tad over 22 Billion dollars deficit. What they have ended up with is 44 Billion dollars plus….and the year has not even finished yet. They will try and rush through the handouts this year so as to make the ludicrous prediction of surplus a reality. They are all style and no substance.

 

[stryker]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

You bagging the budget? Didn't see that coming either. And people on 300k don't need tax breaks for super.

You really do buy into Gillards class warfare dont you? Self funded retirees should be congratulated - they never have their hand out. Why punish them?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

When exactly did Gillard "Gillard admitted they got it wrong and that they didn't need to spend billions in hand outs"?

I guess some of you never watch " Parliament ", or listen to interviews with politicians, and some have never heard of google. It's all there, but as I said before, there is nothing more empty than a closed mind.
( they assumed China would go into recession, instead of powering on and continueing to maintain massive growth.)

The Labor Government has done some good things, the rationalisation of the transport industry will be fantastic for Australia, and the economy, and they did lift pensions up, but not enough for our poorer Aussies, and last night didn't help much at all, for strugglinging middle to low income earners. Funny how people mention Mr. 17.5% interest rate Keating, and " the recession we had to have ", one of the all time lowest, morally bankrupt prime ministers in our short history, and I have some very strong labor/union friends, who will swear to that.

Ah so you make a claim and when someone asks for details it's up to us to find out if it's true or not? Yeah okay… :laughing:

Interest rates were 21.4% when Howard was treasurer... Morally bankrupt? I've met the man a few times and members of his family. Never heard anything morally bankrupt about them. You don't think there are people within the Labor/Union movement who don't hate Keating for political reasons? Keating also deregulated the banks and floated the dollar amongst other things "Honest" John was never able to achieve in 8 years.

As for closed minds you'd certainly know about that.

He also opened us up to the asian bloc. Our trading ties with China are largely thanks to him. I'm all for being critical of current and past leaders, but let's be fair and give credit where credit is due…

 

[happy_tiger]

All I know I'm going to be out of pocket Tax Time $820 as there was no $ regulations with the school bonus and now their is

Thanks Gillard and Swan

If your so worried about us being in defecit or surplus , why don't you peel the money from you and your cronies salaries ??

Labor Scum

Can't wait til the voters dig a big hole at the next election and then bury you in it
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Even Oakshot is talking about crossing the floor :roll

 

[Yossarian]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

You bagging the budget? Didn't see that coming either. And people on 300k don't need tax breaks for super.

You really do buy into Gillards class warfare dont you? Self funded retirees should be congratulated - they never have their hand out. Why punish them?

Good grief… Class welfare would have to be the most abused term in Australian politics outside of UnAustralian.. Try to put a sensible limit of people who can afford to fund things themselves and out it comes...

It's got nada to do with that, it's about the government spending money on people who need it. The reason they don't have their hand out is because they don't need to. They earn 300k a year. Welfare is for people who require assistance. By its general nature it has a class basis. People on 300k+ a year aren't being punished, they earn $6000 a week before tax. If that's punishment I'll take some of that...

 

[Rambo2714]

Labor deliver a bribe heavy budget designed to win votes with low income earners and families? Nah didn't see that coming…...

You bagging the budget? Didn't see that coming either. And people on 300k don't need tax breaks for super.

You really do buy into Gillards class warfare dont you? Self funded retirees should be congratulated - they never have their hand out. Why punish them?

Good grief… Class welfare would have to be the most abused term in Australian politics outside of UnAustralian.. Try to put a sensible limit of people who can afford to fund things themselves and out it comes...

It's got nada to do with that, it's about the government spending money on people who need it. The reason they don't have their hand out is because they don't need to. They earn 300k a year. Welfare is for people who require assistance. By its general nature it has a class basis. People on 300k+ a year aren't being punished, they earn $6000 a week before tax. If that's punishment I'll take some of that...

To be against supporting those people in our country who are most disadvantaged , is Un-Australian .

I got nothing from the budget
-no income tax cut
-my company missed out on a company tax cut
- I will be duely compensated for any financial effect the price carbon has on me
- I have no kids yet .

That's about all I'm aware of now

But I'm extremely happy with the budget , they have spent what we can afford , and given help to those most In need , whilst keeping emphasis on strengthening the economy .

I'm most happy about the welfare increases , this is despite the fact my parents are self funded retires , I don't have any family members or friends who are disabled . Basicly I'm trying to say I don't benefit directly or indirectly from welfare spending , but I'm very proud of it because :

I dont want to live in a country which allows people like myself to prosper at the expense of people from disadvantaged situations .

Take away welfare and you get a country like America , where 15% of the population live in poverty and crime is out of Control.
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