Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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@Yossarian said:
Not sure why the laughter. He did turn it down, it's a matter of record. Him being a speaker does not really help Labor since there is an agreement for the Speaker and Deputy to have a pair. If it helps anyone it's the Libs.

I'm sorry if you see shadowy or devious conduct were there is none. It's politics. If Abbott could have done he would have in a heartbeat,

No, it helps labor because the speaker doesn't have a vote. So rather than having to use a labor member in the chair and losing that party vote, they will keep more power in the House by having Oakenshot there.
 
@Yossarian said:
@Citizen Tiger said:
Apparently it's important to 658,000 more Australians

What did you speak to them about it? What a load of tripe. Primary votes have never played any part in the formation of government apart from their raw value in getting members elected.

It's an extremely thin argument to begin with - you either lack an understanding of Australian politics or you are ignoring its realities.

Of course it's not a part of the normal government formation system. Bargaining with tax payers money to form a post-election coalition isn't part of the normal system either!

The question is should the people or 2 to 3 paid off people decide who forms government? The basic premise of democracy says the earlier. Obviously back door deals of paying people off has become the socially acceptable way to run government after the last few years of NSW labor.
 
@Geo. said:
Ouside of reality for a bit …I always thought it was unfair that Labor has to go up against 2 parties.....If it's Labor v Libs V Nationals...

Julia wins....wooooooooo...

ha. I think you forgot the Greens Geo. Plus, the Liberals don't place candidates in the Nationals seats.

Coalition's are fine. As long as we know about them prior to the election rather than forming them with post-election with tax payers money.
 
Hold on I'm a little behind..Has Oakshot been given the speakers job..When did this happen???

:laughing: Gold
 
@hammertime said:
@Yossarian said:
@Citizen Tiger said:
Apparently it's important to 658,000 more Australians

What did you speak to them about it? What a load of tripe. Primary votes have never played any part in the formation of government apart from their raw value in getting members elected.

It's an extremely thin argument to begin with - you either lack an understanding of Australian politics or you are ignoring its realities.

Of course it's not a part of the normal government formation system. Bargaining with tax payers money to form a post-election coalition isn't part of the normal system either!

The question is should the people or 2 to 3 paid off people decide who forms government? The basic premise of democracy says the earlier. Obviously back door deals of paying people off has become the socially acceptable way to run government after the last few years of NSW labor.

Or the WA Liberal Party? Actually what happened is a part of forming government - you have always needed the support of a majority of HoR MPs - normally they are from one party but it's happened in NSW, SA, WA, and even under Menzies.

Anyway blame the system not the ALP - the events leading to the independents were all above board. None of them at this stage has personally benefited from any deal and Abbott promised them all more cash than Gillard.
 
@hammertime said:
@Geo. said:
Ouside of reality for a bit …I always thought it was unfair that Labor has to go up against 2 parties.....If it's Labor v Libs V Nationals...

Julia wins....wooooooooo...

ha. I think you forgot the

Greens Geo. Plus, the Liberals don't place candidates in the Nationals seats.

Maybe you should tell Joan Van Lieshout
 
@Yossarian said:
Or the WA Liberal Party? Actually what happened is a part of forming government - you have always needed the support of a majority of HoR MPs - normally they are from one party but it's happened in NSW, SA, WA, and even under Menzies.

Anyway blame the system not the ALP - the events leading to the independents were all above board. None of them at this stage has personally benefited from any deal and Abbott promised them all more cash than Gillard.

I do blame only the system and the Independants! I haven't attacked Labor at all. But I wish both leaders had simply not given into any demands and told them to pick a side, if not on their constituents, then their existing policy only.

Seriously, that pokies policy they are going to implement is the most ill-conceived bit of policy I have seen in my life.
 
@Yossarian said:
@hammertime said:
@Geo. said:
Ouside of reality for a bit …I always thought it was unfair that Labor has to go up against 2 parties.....If it's Labor v Libs V Nationals...

Julia wins....wooooooooo...

ha. I think you forgot the

Greens Geo. Plus, the Liberals don't place candidates in the Nationals seats.

Maybe you should tell Joan Van Lieshout

Ha. Fair enough. You have me there. But they usually don't.
 
Climate Change should be quoted as the 'the greatest load of crap of our time'. Earth's temperatures have only been recorded for 300 years, nobody has any evidence to suggest that there weren't weather patterns before recordings. Our recent Winter was one of the coldest I've experienced and the ski fields experienced some of the best dumpings of snow for 3 decades, water levels in Sydney are at 63% and there was even a stage where taking off water restrictions was considered. I believe in protecting ecosystems and forests, but I don't believe in Earth Temperatures rising.
 
@citizen cub said:
Climate Change should be quoted as the 'the greatest load of crap of our time'. Earth's temperatures have only been recorded for 300 years, nobody has any evidence to suggest that there weren't weather patterns before recordings.

This proves your ignorance
 
In fact they do….deep core ice drillings have been tested and temprtures determined for thousands of years...The planets natural cardon and nitrogen cycles are at at levels that would suggest the big freeze is coming...Switch to Nuclear enegy now...stop burning fossil fuels....think of the children...

http://iahs.info/redbooks/a086/086010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is all...
 
Now we've got a minority government thanks to those greedy bastards (bigshott and windsor), how the hell are we going to pass through legislation? The Coalition also hold more seats in the Senate than Labor, and more in the House of Representatives, it's only thanks to a Green and 3 independents (one of whom wants a tax on pokies) that Labor hold Government. It's ungovernable, it won't last three years, if we go back to an election, Labor will be ousted, in three years, they will be ousted, so they should thank their lucky stars the Independents sided with them. A regional processing centre will NEVER happen, (espescially when you've got a Green who wants to totally open the borders), organising so called experts on this crap called Climate Change along with pollies to discuss the issue will NEVER happen, her initial idea was a citizen's assembly, The Broadband Network will never be completed and will see Billions wasted, most don't even want it and is simply unaffordable to most households, they've racked up a huge debt which will see future generations pay it off, the budget will never return to surplus under a Labor Government, they economic record doesn't make for good reading.
 
Pretty deep post for a 15 year old. I agree with you regarding the Labor Govt though, they will surely be ousted when the next election rolls around.
 
@willow said:
Pretty deep post for a 15 year old. I agree with you regarding the Labor Govt though, they will surely be ousted when the next election rolls around.

Maybe, maybe not. It may depend on how well O'Farrell and Springborg are received assuming they win their elections.
 
@citizen cub said:
Now we've got a minority government thanks to those greedy bastards (bigshott and windsor), how the hell are we going to pass through legislation? The Coalition also hold more seats in the Senate than Labor, and more in the House of Representatives, it's only thanks to a Green and 3 independents (one of whom wants a tax on pokies) that Labor hold Government. It's ungovernable, it won't last three years, if we go back to an election, Labor will be ousted, in three years, they will be ousted, so they should thank their lucky stars the Independents sided with them. A regional processing centre will NEVER happen, (espescially when you've got a Green who wants to totally open the borders), organising so called experts on this crap called Climate Change along with pollies to discuss the issue will NEVER happen, her initial idea was a citizen's assembly, The Broadband Network will never be completed and will see Billions wasted, most don't even want it and is simply unaffordable to most households, they've racked up a huge debt which will see future generations pay it off, the budget will never return to surplus under a Labor Government, they economic record doesn't make for good reading.

You are spouting rhetoric you heard from your conservative parents that you have no idea about.

Given the independents, (Oakeshott aside but including Katter and even to my understanding Crook) and the Greens MP have agreed to vote against no confidence motions in the house of reps, the ALP can move almost anything they want into the Senate where it will be critiqued by a panel that is slightly more Coalition than ALP but a great deal more ALP/Green than Coaltiion. The independents voted for the ALP BECAUSE it has a greater chance at building legislation than the Coalition BECAUSE they have a better relationship with the Greens and combined, the ALP and Greens outnumber the Coalition in the senate by around 9 votes.

Also you fail to realise that 90% of policy that gets made in the House of Reps is agreed on by both parties. The opposition doesn't just argue everything for the hell of it, no matter how much it seems like it.

Your post descends into absolute propaganda. You need to stop spouting Tony Abbott speeches as though they are facts. Everybody who uses the internet, you included, wants Australian broadband speeds up to international standards. There are countless thousands of scientists that will vouch for the legitimacy of climate change.

As for the regional processing centre. Who says it will never happen? You. You make that statement as though you are an insider and understand what you are talking about which you clearly don't. The policies that the Greens and the ALP differ on, are no greater exemplified than by their stance on illegal immigrants, however, opening a regional processing centre is something that the Greens can and will identify as closer to their policy line and more in line with international humanitarian standards than the current policies that Kevin Rudd wasn't given ample time to rectify.

Debt? What debt? You mean the state of the Australian economy that has had it called the greatest economic miracle in history? The absolute miniscule debt that was as a result of spending being made to counteract the potential for an incredibly greater amount of debt? Do you understand that if the coalition were in power during the global economic crisis, their policies on government spending would have had us losing money at the level the money exists fundamentally. Throwing the coffers out into the public and keeping it out of the hands of the reserve bank prevented the economic crisis from affecting it.
 
@MacDougall said:
@citizen cub said:
Now we've got a minority government thanks to those greedy bastards (bigshott and windsor), how the hell are we going to pass through legislation? The Coalition also hold more seats in the Senate than Labor, and more in the House of Representatives, it's only thanks to a Green and 3 independents (one of whom wants a tax on pokies) that Labor hold Government. It's ungovernable, it won't last three years, if we go back to an election, Labor will be ousted, in three years, they will be ousted, so they should thank their lucky stars the Independents sided with them. A regional processing centre will NEVER happen, (espescially when you've got a Green who wants to totally open the borders), organising so called experts on this crap called Climate Change along with pollies to discuss the issue will NEVER happen, her initial idea was a citizen's assembly, The Broadband Network will never be completed and will see Billions wasted, most don't even want it and is simply unaffordable to most households, they've racked up a huge debt which will see future generations pay it off, the budget will never return to surplus under a Labor Government, they economic record doesn't make for good reading.

You are spouting rhetoric you heard from your conservative parents that you have no idea about.

Given the independents, (Oakeshott aside but including Katter and even to my understanding Crook) and the Greens MP have agreed to vote against no confidence motions in the house of reps, the ALP can move almost anything they want into the Senate where it will be critiqued by a panel that is slightly more Coalition than ALP but a great deal more ALP/Green than Coaltiion. The independents voted for the ALP BECAUSE it has a greater chance at building legislation than the Coalition BECAUSE they have a better relationship with the Greens and combined, the ALP and Greens outnumber the Coalition in the senate by around 9 votes.

Also you fail to realise that 90% of policy that gets made in the House of Reps is agreed on by both parties. The opposition doesn't just argue everything for the hell of it, no matter how much it seems like it.

Your post descends into absolute propaganda. You need to stop spouting Tony Abbott speeches as though they are facts. Everybody who uses the internet, you included, wants Australian broadband speeds up to international standards. There are countless thousands of scientists that will vouch for the legitimacy of climate change.

As for the regional processing centre. Who says it will never happen? You. You make that statement as though you are an insider and understand what you are talking about which you clearly don't. The policies that the Greens and the ALP differ on, are no greater exemplified than by their stance on illegal immigrants, however, opening a regional processing centre is something that the Greens can and will identify as closer to their policy line and more in line with international humanitarian standards than the current policies that Kevin Rudd wasn't given ample time to rectify.

Debt? What debt? You mean the state of the Australian economy that has had it called the greatest economic miracle in history? The absolute miniscule debt that was as a result of spending being made to counteract the potential for an incredibly greater amount of debt? Do you understand that if the coalition were in power during the global economic crisis, their policies on government spending would have had us losing money at the level the money exists fundamentally. Throwing the coffers out into the public and keeping it out of the hands of the reserve bank prevented the economic crisis from affecting it.

to the point macdougall and spot on ! it is worth noting as well that the first stages of the nbn have been rolled out in tassie at 10% cost less than the forecast and has already had 50% take -up by those who have had little or no prior access to broadband. ie; these people, most probably in rural areas now have the same access capabilities as those in cities. access for education, small business etc etc and even the tigers forum ! again when the facts and figures are presented ( eg official preferential vote counts ) the purveyors of lies and deceit, abbott, bishop, robb etc are not to be heard … their silence is deafening !!!
 
@MacDougall said:
@citizen cub said:
Now we've got a minority government thanks to those greedy bastards (bigshott and windsor), how the hell are we going to pass through legislation? The Coalition also hold more seats in the Senate than Labor, and more in the House of Representatives, it's only thanks to a Green and 3 independents (one of whom wants a tax on pokies) that Labor hold Government. It's ungovernable, it won't last three years, if we go back to an election, Labor will be ousted, in three years, they will be ousted, so they should thank their lucky stars the Independents sided with them. A regional processing centre will NEVER happen, (espescially when you've got a Green who wants to totally open the borders), organising so called experts on this crap called Climate Change along with pollies to discuss the issue will NEVER happen, her initial idea was a citizen's assembly, The Broadband Network will never be completed and will see Billions wasted, most don't even want it and is simply unaffordable to most households, they've racked up a huge debt which will see future generations pay it off, the budget will never return to surplus under a Labor Government, they economic record doesn't make for good reading.

You are spouting rhetoric you heard from your conservative parents that you have no idea about.

Given the independents, (Oakeshott aside but including Katter and even to my understanding Crook) and the Greens MP have agreed to vote against no confidence motions in the house of reps, the ALP can move almost anything they want into the Senate where it will be critiqued by a panel that is slightly more Coalition than ALP but a great deal more ALP/Green than Coaltiion. The independents voted for the ALP BECAUSE it has a greater chance at building legislation than the Coalition BECAUSE they have a better relationship with the Greens and combined, the ALP and Greens outnumber the Coalition in the senate by around 9 votes.

Also you fail to realise that 90% of policy that gets made in the House of Reps is agreed on by both parties. The opposition doesn't just argue everything for the hell of it, no matter how much it seems like it.

Your post descends into absolute propaganda. You need to stop spouting Tony Abbott speeches as though they are facts. Everybody who uses the internet, you included, wants Australian broadband speeds up to international standards. There are countless thousands of scientists that will vouch for the legitimacy of climate change.

As for the regional processing centre. Who says it will never happen? You. You make that statement as though you are an insider and understand what you are talking about which you clearly don't. The policies that the Greens and the ALP differ on, are no greater exemplified than by their stance on illegal immigrants, however, opening a regional processing centre is something that the Greens can and will identify as closer to their policy line and more in line with international humanitarian standards than the current policies that Kevin Rudd wasn't given ample time to rectify.

Debt? What debt? You mean the state of the Australian economy that has had it called the greatest economic miracle in history? The absolute miniscule debt that was as a result of spending being made to counteract the potential for an incredibly greater amount of debt? Do you understand that if the coalition were in power during the global economic crisis, their policies on government spending would have had us losing money at the level the money exists fundamentally. Throwing the coffers out into the public and keeping it out of the hands of the reserve bank prevented the economic crisis from affecting it.

\
\
Yeah, the budget was only in 21 billion dollar surplus before hand. This was mainly thanks to the Economic Management of the Howard/Costello Government, who left us with a debt of $0\. Just for the record, how many boats of refugees and asylum seekers have come since the start of this Government? 150, and Gillard was the Deputy for most of this and must have in some way supported Rudd's pacific solution, the East Timor processing centre was 11th hour pork barrell and had to be done if Gillard was to be re-elected as it was one of the main election issues and people were dissatisfied with Rudd's policy on illegal immigrants.

Looking at the Government's record on completing things and doing them to a good standard, it doesn't make for good reading, the Home Insulation Scheme seemed like a good environment policy and 250,000 homes would be insulated, instead it was nothing short of a shitfight, resulting in 4 people dying and $1 Billion dollars being used just to rectify the problem, a Fuel and Grocery Watch which just never happened, Rudd promising to act on 'Climate Change' and failing miserably, it just doesn't add up.

Now the East Timor Government has declined to having a regional processing centre, what will happen next? I know I sound like a racist bastard in terms of letting Asylum Seekers in, but you've got to ask yourself, are they productive for the Economy and what qualifies for being a genuine refugee, or are they just hopping on boats to avoid getting a passport or visa. As I've said on a number of occassions to various people, I'm happy if they're honest workers serving the Australian Economy well, but I can't abide by them being propped on welfare payment with OUR money.
 
I can't stand the people who cannot weigh up the cost benefit of the NBN. It's usually met with poor broad examples of it's 'future' applications, that can be done with today's infrastructure, or one of my favorites, where someone act's like they are all big picture thinking and say 'we haven't yet imagined the uses for it'! Seriously. Let's build it when we have the uses for it that make financial sense then!!!!

$43bn. Does anyone know how much this actually is? We aren't talking roads or bridges to transport physical goods, the necessities of life. We are talking Data! And only FASTER data at that!!

$43billion in the hands of the Labor government! $2000 per man, woman, child, $4000 per household…. and that's not even wireless (where the future lies) OR the front end devices we need! What a massive waste this is going to be.

People toting that we need to come up to 'international standards' please look at which countries have done this with the costly landscape that we have. Yes, you got it. 0.

Here's an idea. How about we simply compile a list of people who want to pay the $4000 and subscribe to a new monthly plan, build the backbone and just connect their homes? Easy. Rather than putting our grand kids into massive debt so we can watch less grainy video's.
 
I'm a believer!!!

DOWN WITH THE NBN…..

CLIMATE CHANGE IS THE BIGGEST CON OF THE CENTURY, CONCEIVED BY THEM COMMIES!!!

WHO CARES ABOUT A GLOBAL AUSTRALIA... GLOBAL ECONOMIES...... WE NEED AN AUSTRALIAN FOCUSED GOV!!!!

LABOR MIS-MANAGERS MONEY... (DESPITE OUR COUNTRY LEADING THE WAY OUT OF THE GFC)

Pshhhhh had enough of some of you blokes in this thread... its a broken record turning out the same old BS i hear from the human kettle.

Ohhhh and under a Liberal gov you guys seriously believe that fat tub of crap Joe Hockey is seriously a better option?

Best be of to listen to 2GB and watch some good ole racist nine news and get the _facts_
 
@citizen cub said:
@MacDougall said:
@citizen cub said:
Now we've got a minority government thanks to those greedy bastards (bigshott and windsor), how the hell are we going to pass through legislation? The Coalition also hold more seats in the Senate than Labor, and more in the House of Representatives, it's only thanks to a Green and 3 independents (one of whom wants a tax on pokies) that Labor hold Government. It's ungovernable, it won't last three years, if we go back to an election, Labor will be ousted, in three years, they will be ousted, so they should thank their lucky stars the Independents sided with them. A regional processing centre will NEVER happen, (espescially when you've got a Green who wants to totally open the borders), organising so called experts on this crap called Climate Change along with pollies to discuss the issue will NEVER happen, her initial idea was a citizen's assembly, The Broadband Network will never be completed and will see Billions wasted, most don't even want it and is simply unaffordable to most households, they've racked up a huge debt which will see future generations pay it off, the budget will never return to surplus under a Labor Government, they economic record doesn't make for good reading.

You are spouting rhetoric you heard from your conservative parents that you have no idea about.

Given the independents, (Oakeshott aside but including Katter and even to my understanding Crook) and the Greens MP have agreed to vote against no confidence motions in the house of reps, the ALP can move almost anything they want into the Senate where it will be critiqued by a panel that is slightly more Coalition than ALP but a great deal more ALP/Green than Coaltiion. The independents voted for the ALP BECAUSE it has a greater chance at building legislation than the Coalition BECAUSE they have a better relationship with the Greens and combined, the ALP and Greens outnumber the Coalition in the senate by around 9 votes.

Also you fail to realise that 90% of policy that gets made in the House of Reps is agreed on by both parties. The opposition doesn't just argue everything for the hell of it, no matter how much it seems like it.

Your post descends into absolute propaganda. You need to stop spouting Tony Abbott speeches as though they are facts. Everybody who uses the internet, you included, wants Australian broadband speeds up to international standards. There are countless thousands of scientists that will vouch for the legitimacy of climate change.

As for the regional processing centre. Who says it will never happen? You. You make that statement as though you are an insider and understand what you are talking about which you clearly don't. The policies that the Greens and the ALP differ on, are no greater exemplified than by their stance on illegal immigrants, however, opening a regional processing centre is something that the Greens can and will identify as closer to their policy line and more in line with international humanitarian standards than the current policies that Kevin Rudd wasn't given ample time to rectify.

Debt? What debt? You mean the state of the Australian economy that has had it called the greatest economic miracle in history? The absolute miniscule debt that was as a result of spending being made to counteract the potential for an incredibly greater amount of debt? Do you understand that if the coalition were in power during the global economic crisis, their policies on government spending would have had us losing money at the level the money exists fundamentally. Throwing the coffers out into the public and keeping it out of the hands of the reserve bank prevented the economic crisis from affecting it.

\
\
Yeah, the budget was only in 21 billion dollar surplus before hand. This was mainly thanks to the Economic Management of the Howard/Costello Government, who left us with a debt of $0\. Just for the record, how many boats of refugees and asylum seekers have come since the start of this Government? 150, and Gillard was the Deputy for most of this and must have in some way supported Rudd's pacific solution, the East Timor processing centre was 11th hour pork barrell and had to be done if Gillard was to be re-elected as it was one of the main election issues and people were dissatisfied with Rudd's policy on illegal immigrants.

Looking at the Government's record on completing things and doing them to a good standard, it doesn't make for good reading, the Home Insulation Scheme seemed like a good environment policy and 250,000 homes would be insulated, instead it was nothing short of a s***, resulting in 4 people dying and $1 Billion dollars being used just to rectify the problem, a Fuel and Grocery Watch which just never happened, Rudd promising to act on 'Climate Change' and failing miserably, it just doesn't add up.

Now the East Timor Government has declined to having a regional processing centre, what will happen next? I know I sound like a racist bastard in terms of letting Asylum Seekers in, but you've got to ask yourself, are they productive for the Economy and what qualifies for being a genuine refugee, or are they just hopping on boats to avoid getting a passport or visa. As I've said on a number of occassions to various people, I'm happy if they're honest workers serving the Australian Economy well, but I can't abide by them being propped on welfare payment with OUR money.

I'm almost certain I've paid a lot more tax than you and I am absolutely happy with my tax money paying for the betterment of my fellow man. On shore processing is something I am all for. So long as we let the rest of the world know clearly what they are to expect if they come here on boats. We can bring them into purpose built communities, give them job training and education on Australian customs and English language and then give them citizenship when they are ready. It sounds idealistic but it's the solution I feel the most comfortable with. It also gives time to screen them for potential behavioural problems. If they don't pass behavioural testing then deport them. Let's not get into an argument about how much of a right we as Australians have to claim this land and reject the request for asylum of others because that is a huge can of worms.

It's nice to know you went for the coalition catch cry of "pink batts wah wah pink batts". If it were found to be the government at fault for the fatalities we would have murder trials buddy. The legal system loves nothing more than to drag our highest over the coals to let the lower echelon know they mean business. The cold hard fact of the matter is that contractors took advantage of the government subsidies to get more work than they could handle. The fatalities lie in the hands of the business owners and tradesmen that failed to abide by general OH&S practises. If you blame the government in this instance then you could make a case for the government being at fault for every death, rape and theft in the country. The coalition used the tactic of plugging their ears to argument and repeating completely unsubstantiated claims ad nauseum. If it was heard in a court and the Labour lawyer cried objection, it would be sustained time and time again. Hell, Peter Garrett was only demoted so that the furious but misled Australian public would have a visible scapegoat. If there was any meaningful fault on his part he would have been disenfranchised.

How old were you when Howard got elected? Life as a culturally aware youth during the Howard years was trying at best. The conservative nature of the Costello treasury allowed Australia to fall behind in technological, social and cultural advances to the point where while compared to countries like the USA and Japan in 2000, it felt like it was still 1990\. Our internet was expensive and slow, our telecommunications networks were obsolete, our cost of living was huge and government spending on a community level was minimal. Yet we saw our politicians with smiles on their faces, marching our army to wars not of our creation and driving expensive cars, even at times being caught with hookers and rubbing shoulders with the socially elite.

You would do well to at least open your eyes to the possibility that the coalition far from represents your generations needs. The same can be said for the ALP, though at least they identify the need to placate the far left which in no time at all will be a majority.
 
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