Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Geo]

As long as it's the Minister for stupid walks…I'm fine with it....

Gillard pulls it off for 6 months...it will be Liberal who???

 

[hammertime]

I understand what you are trying to say Hammertime, but don't forget the basic premis of democracy.
Who ever can get enough votes to survive no-confidence motions can govern. Going back to the early years of Australian politics (both state and federal, pre and post federation) the candidates were all non-aligned but formed government by grouping together. Who ever could get the majority won power - that's what we are seeing today. It wasn't until the 30's (i think) until political parties were even mentioned in legislation.
In fact, the Liberal Party (or at least the early version of it) formed only when the non-Labor members grouped together against the Labor party. In this instance, they "bought" eachother's backs to ensure they could form a government

This is what we are seeing today and it's a wonderful example of our democracy in action. Have a look at the Israeli Knesset and the coalitions that they have to form in order to ensure government.

That being said, neither major party should be celebrating as neither of them got the majority, so bring on Turnbull 2011!

I know mate. But the fact that it has happened in some form historically, doesn't make it right.

Essentially we have some post-poll coalitions which the voters didn't have the information about prior to voting. The majority of the independents area's have been Nationals. So, given another vote, what do you think the population would decide?

Even Windsor came out and used that twisted logic of 'Labor will be a better government, because the Liberals would win if it went back to the polls'….. like, seriously. That's is not democracy. It's not the people. It's 3 guys who have been bought off with trinkets and left field policies.

Look at that Pokies policy that was dot point 1 of what's his name's policy. It's the most unworkable and club destroying bit of policy I've seen... and that was POINT 1\. Decisions cannot be made like that!

 

[system]

I'm just extremely angry that our democracy has been bought by the labor party with $10 BILLION dollars of taxpayers money after only 37% of the population voted for them…

How can you guys be comfortable with that?

Actually hammertime if you look at the true demographic breakdown of the election the largest voter group swinging against the Labor Party government was those low income earners and welfare recipients you claime were bought by the handounts in the various stimulus packages.

The reason for this is that that socio ecconomic bracket are, statistically, the least likely to do independant research on political issues and are the most easily swayed by the editorial journalism of the major media conglomerates.

Funnily enough the media campaign swung from relatively neutral with minor bias either way depending on what issue was being discussed to completely anti Labour party once the Mining "Super Tax" was vaunted by former Prime Minister Rudd. It is no coincidence that all media conglomerations hold interests in the blue chip resource sectors. This is where the electoral map was thrown on it's head and it was almost a deal breaker. There was never an attempt or allowance to debate the pros and cons. The Labor government than commited a terrible mistake in changing leaders ignoring all polling data of previous election cycles which show almost identical trends in the terms of previous governments.

The most worrying trends in this election are the slow emergence of the religious right and the ramping up of interest group sponsored advertising.

Dangerous times lay ahead for the political landscape regardless of who holds office

 

[hammertime]

I'm just extremely angry that our democracy has been bought by the labor party with $10 BILLION dollars of taxpayers money after only 37% of the population voted for them…

How can you guys be comfortable with that?

Actually hammertime if you look at the true demographic breakdown of the election the largest voter group swinging against the Labor Party government was those low income earners and welfare recipients you claime were bought by the handounts in the various stimulus packages.

Where do you get the data from Smeg?

I agree that it's dangerous territory we are entering and I cannot believe that either party could pull out a better candidate than these 2.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm just extremely angry that our democracy has been bought by the labor party with $10 BILLION dollars of taxpayers money after only 37% of the population voted for them…

How can you guys be comfortable with that?

49.99% 2PP and 72 seats.

Abbott offered $1b for Hobart Hospital and he would have offered more to the 3 rural indies.

I would have been just as upset with Abbott if it had racked up that much! But I do actually have no problems with Health spending, as I've said on here before, because it means less spending in the future for the boomers.

The worst thing is that we also have let a Governor General in power, who could actually rightly send us back to the polls, gain a political bias and not done anything about it!

OR that one of the independent has been bought through a PERSONAL benefit of a ministry!

Come now, we've had a stack of G-Gs who were MPs for parties before they got appointed. Claiming any of this happened or events will occur because the Governor-General's daughter is married to an ALP MoP is absurd and bottom-feeding. Had nothing to do with the decisions taken by anyone involved. If Labor lost the confidence of the House Bryce would have no option to go back to the polls or commission Abbott to be PM.

"Bought" by a ministry? That's a big accusation… Are you going on record as saying there is something illegal about what transpired? Any member of parliament can be a minister. Even National Party members!

 

[system]

Where do you get the data from Smeg?

I agree that it's dangerous territory we are entering and I cannot believe that either party could pull out a better candidate than these 2.

Inner polling across all four major parties and post election research by the thinktank I am apart of in consortium with the ABS

 

[hammertime]

Come now, we've had a stack of G-Gs who were MPs for parties before they got appointed. Claiming any of this happened or events will occur because the Governor-General's daughter is married to an ALP MoP is absurd and bottom-feeding. Had nothing to do with the decisions taken by anyone involved. If Labor lost the confidence of the House Bryce would have no option to go back to the polls or commission Abbott to be PM.

"Bought" by a ministry? That's a big accusation… Are you going on record as saying there is something illegal about what transpired? Any member of parliament can be a minister. Even National Party members!

I'm only 29, so I suppose I've never noticed that in my time. But it seems pretty wrong to have a GG aligned what-so-ever with any party. These kinds of deals give me no confidence that it has been done in the interest of the people, surely that has to be the mandate of the GG.

It's not illegal at all, did I say that? But that as part of the deal for his vote. I know you are a labor supporter, but I have faith that you can add 1 + 1 Yoss. Are you saying he would have been offered that if Labor got a 76 seats straight up? a new 'rural' ministry would have been formed? That was part of the election pitch that the people voted on right?

 

[Yossarian]

Come now, we've had a stack of G-Gs who were MPs for parties before they got appointed. Claiming any of this happened or events will occur because the Governor-General's daughter is married to an ALP MoP is absurd and bottom-feeding. Had nothing to do with the decisions taken by anyone involved. If Labor lost the confidence of the House Bryce would have no option to go back to the polls or commission Abbott to be PM.

"Bought" by a ministry? That's a big accusation… Are you going on record as saying there is something illegal about what transpired? Any member of parliament can be a minister. Even National Party members!

I'm only 29, so I suppose I've never noticed that in my time. But it seems pretty wrong to have a GG aligned what-so-ever with any party. These kinds of deals give me no confidence that it has been done in the interest of the people, surely that has to be the mandate of the GG.

It's not illegal at all, did I say that? But that as part of the deal for his vote. I know you are a labor supporter, but I have faith that you can add 1 + 1 Yoss. Are you saying he would have been offered that if Labor got a 76 seats straight up? a new 'rural' ministry would have been formed? That was part of the election pitch that the people voted on right?

Well I'm 34 and I'm aware of at least 3 ex pollies who have been G-G… In any event the G-G played no part in any of this - quite rightly the decisions were made by the 150 people elected to the HoR.

Would they have offered him a ministry if they had 76 seats? Of course not. But they have 72 seats. As you agree there is nothing illegal and as I understand it there is no formal agreement on Oakeshott getting a ministerial position. It worked okay down in SA.

 

[stryker]

You're all old irrelevant stooges. The Australian Labia party is the future. Most left wing government in history. Greens with power. Australia is finally reflecting it's youthful, multicultural population rather than all you middle of the road, has-beens. Go sob into your liberal party flags.

:laughing: you'll believe anything mate…..

Spare me the patronizing please chronie. I know that's the way they teach you to speak to younger people in right wing etiquette classes so I'll let it slide this time. You're just afraid of change, like the rest. Afraid of losing power and influence and seeing the votes of a new generation finally begin to amount for something.

Don't be afraid Stryker, the big bad Greenies aren't out to take away all your shootin', fishin' fun. They're here to try to salvage the planet from the precipice of destruction. They are Klaatu.

Keep your head buried in the sand though all you chronies. Gen Y are a noble generation. We'll happily solve your problems for you while you stand idly by waving the finger of blame at everybody else or claiming there is no problem. "It's all just media spin! You can't believe everything you read in the paper!" You'll cry while spouting headlines from an even less reputable source, Fairfax and Newslimited.

If you don't see the need for change then there is nothing else to say to you. Just going back to a far right wing government led by a fundamentalist Christian would have been the death knell to this country. This result is the only possible positive result. It was divine intervention.

:laughing: absolutely unbelievable dribble!!!! I mean this has got to be a joke surely?….surely.

Anyone who would call the Labor Party the Labia Party is far too immature to be taken seriously.

What do you mean that I'm afraid of losing power? You do realise that the Labor Party are the incumbants....dont you? We're finally seeing the votes of a new generation amount to something? Go back to your video games you child - you are way too far out of your depth.

Generation Y are noble? The Greens are Klaatu? This result is divine intervention?

What you need to do is grow up, get out into the real world and live a little - gain some obviously much needed experience and some common sense. What you have written here is the bigggest load of "pie in the sky" ballderdash ever seen in this forum.

I still cant believe that people think like this....the 60's are over sonny - you missed out.

 

[hammertime]

Spare me the patronizing please chronie. I know that's the way they teach you to speak to younger people in right wing etiquette classes so I'll let it slide this time. You're just afraid of change, like the rest. Afraid of losing power and influence and seeing the votes of a new generation finally begin to amount for something.

Don't be afraid Stryker, the big bad Greenies aren't out to take away all your shootin', fishin' fun. They're here to try to salvage the planet from the precipice of destruction. They are Klaatu.

Keep your head buried in the sand though all you chronies. Gen Y are a noble generation. We'll happily solve your problems for you while you stand idly by waving the finger of blame at everybody else or claiming there is no problem. "It's all just media spin! You can't believe everything you read in the paper!" You'll cry while spouting headlines from an even less reputable source, Fairfax and Newslimited.

If you don't see the need for change then there is nothing else to say to you. Just going back to a far right wing government led by a fundamentalist Christian would have been the death knell to this country. This result is the only possible positive result. It was divine intervention.

MacDougal, I'm a Gen Y bloke too, but I currently sway towards the liberals. You really need to look to the future mate and see the budgetary impacts that we are going to have supporting the baby boomers. Think about what policy is needed to cope with that, because that's the most important thing for our generation. If we are in deficit when that hits, we are going to be in a world of pain.

The US and the UK have massively underfunded liabilities and what we are seeing now, could be only the tip of the iceberg if governments don't stop spending over what we need to in the right areas.

Labor certainly aren't the party thinking about spending wisely for the future.

 

[system]

Well I would disagree with that on the principal that surplus with reduced infrastructure spending is just as bad as running a defecit.

In the end the problem is societal and not political. The level to which we as a society choose to live beyond our means is the quick path to downfall. The actions of us as individuals and as such society has given untold power to banking conglomerates and underwriters and the like. Altruism has dissapeared. We are no longer willing to take a small hit now for the benefit of the country long term.

Blaming the top tier (in this instance politicians and political parties) for the woes of now and the future is folly and only serves as a way to ignore what we have done.

Modern society is perfectly summed up by the image I saw the other day. A teenage girl in the City bitching about her mother not buying her a new iPhone to replace her old one whilst standing next to a mentally challenged homeless fellow selling The Big Issue. What a wonderful mirror to society that was. I think the irony was lost on the youngster

 

[Blackpearl]

Sad day for all Australians really…..Labor have zero chance to lead this country on their own terms.

Oakeshot deserves a kick in the head for the way he carried on today....and now the word is he has been offered a ministry position with Labor.

I'm ashamed with the way this has ended.

i wonder whether those complaining bitterly about preference voting etc were complaining so bitterly when beazley got 50.5% to howard 49.5 % for howards second term …. ME THINKS NOT !!

 

[hammertime]

Well I would disagree with that on the principal that surplus with reduced infrastructure spending is just as bad as running a defecit.

In the end the problem is societal and not political. The level to which we as a society choose to live beyond our means is the quick path to downfall. The actions of us as individuals and as such society has given untold power to banking conglomerates and underwriters and the like. Altruism has dissapeared. We are no longer willing to take a small hit now for the benefit of the country long term.

Blaming the top tier (in this instance politicians and political parties) for the woes of now and the future is folly and only serves as a way to ignore what we have done.

Modern society is perfectly summed up by the image I saw the other day. A teenage girl in the City b**** about her mother not buying her a new iPhone to replace her old one whilst standing next to a mentally challenged homeless fellow selling The Big Issue. What a wonderful mirror to society that was. I think the irony was lost on the youngster

well infrastructure spending with a business case…. if it can return it's capital, or reduce other expenditures, then it is a worthwhile spend.

I agree mate. It is society's problem of overspending. We aren't looking as bad here as the US and the UK, but we could be if we ruin our financial position. The large majority of US pensions are off-balance sheet and funded by the private sector. The US don't have super. I can only imagine what is going to happen to the world given that many US companies are bordering on insolvency now.

I think the government has the majority of responsibility to plan for the future. When you are talking increased pension costs and health costs, it's not going to be solved by reducing consumer purchasing, but by the government spending or saving money in the right areas to reduce these future burdens. The large majority wouldn't have voted last fortnight knowing what we face in 10-20 years.

Government needs to be bigger than catering for the un-knowledgeable whims of the general population.

 

[MacDougall]

:laughing: you'll believe anything mate…..

Spare me the patronizing please chronie. I know that's the way they teach you to speak to younger people in right wing etiquette classes so I'll let it slide this time. You're just afraid of change, like the rest. Afraid of losing power and influence and seeing the votes of a new generation finally begin to amount for something.

Don't be afraid Stryker, the big bad Greenies aren't out to take away all your shootin', fishin' fun. They're here to try to salvage the planet from the precipice of destruction. They are Klaatu.

Keep your head buried in the sand though all you chronies. Gen Y are a noble generation. We'll happily solve your problems for you while you stand idly by waving the finger of blame at everybody else or claiming there is no problem. "It's all just media spin! You can't believe everything you read in the paper!" You'll cry while spouting headlines from an even less reputable source, Fairfax and Newslimited.

If you don't see the need for change then there is nothing else to say to you. Just going back to a far right wing government led by a fundamentalist Christian would have been the death knell to this country. This result is the only possible positive result. It was divine intervention.

:laughing: absolutely unbelievable dribble!!!! I mean this has got to be a joke surely?….surely.

Anyone who would call the Labor Party the Labia Party is far too immature to be taken seriously.

What do you mean that I'm afraid of losing power? You do realise that the Labor Party are the incumbants....dont you? We're finally seeing the votes of a new generation amount to something? Go back to your video games you child - you are way too far out of your depth.

Generation Y are noble? The Greens are Klaatu? This result is divine intervention?

What you need to do is grow up, get out into the real world and live a little - gain some obviously much needed experience and some common sense. What you have written here is the bigggest load of "pie in the sky" ballderdash ever seen in this forum.

I still cant believe that people think like this....the 60's are over sonny - you missed out.

Take a load off Stryker. I apologise for calling you a chronie. I was trying to get a rise out of you. I've done far more living that any other 24 year old I've met. Just because I like to take liberties with the English language doesn't mean I'm some unwise, immature brat. I'm not going to go into the details of why your judgment of me is incorrect. Please don't call me a child.

Also Stryker. Having leanings that don't agree with yours don't amount to being unlearned, immature and unwise. As I said, taking liberties with the English language is far from a reason to assume that of me.

I don't truly believe all of what I said either. Like I said, I was just trying to get a rise out of you. If you managed to avoid getting riled up by the fanciful language and actually read the meat and potatoes of what I said then you would have understood how I really feel. You skimmed over all of my real points.

Do you honestly not believe that the rise in Green votes isn't the result of Gen Y voting Green? If you believe that going back to a Coalition government, after the ALP hadn't even gone ahead with any of the things people took issue with, was going to be a good outcome, then I can only believe that you are voting with brand loyalty.

It seems your only issue with what I said was the way I said it. According to your retort.

Just for the record. If the ALP get their full three years and don't follow through with their policies to the best of their ability, considering all possible variables, then I would have no hesitation voting for the Coalition. As long as they aren't headed by a glassy eyed, fundamentalist Christian.

Having discussions with people on either side of the political scale from the perspective of the other is an absolutely pointless exercise. It's no wonder politicians can't agree when Tigers fans can't either. My father and mother in law are ALP crazy and I often find myself being forced to take the position of a Coalition supporter just to show them the flaws of Gillard and the rest of the ALP. They are blinded by their brand loyalty. Just like Coalition supporters.

I think the beauty of Gen Y is that I see them so disenfranchised with both parties that they will be lifetime swing voters, at least a decent majority of them will be. Swing voters is realistically what everyone should be, considering the discernible differences between the ALP and the Coalition, until this week, were becoming less and less clear.

The brand loyalty is going to die soon. I imagine it will culminate in the rise of a truly powerful third party. Fortunately for the Greens they are the ones at the top of the third party food chain right now and will usurp this power. For better or worse.

If you really knew me well enough to make the observations you made, you would know I am a strictly neutral voter. I only vote for whoever I think will create the most accountability in parliament. With these as my only stipulations can you see why I am happy with this result?

 

[AndTheKungFoSing]

I still cant believe that people think like this….the 60's are over sonny - you missed out.

Well Abbott wants to take us back to the 50's….. when global economies and businesses were non-existent... but hey... they most Australian focused government in 60yrs!!! And somehow this is a good thing... :deadhorse:

 

[Kul]

Coalition Leader - Next Federal Election - Coalition Leader - Next Election
ABBOTT, Tony - $1.60
TURNBULL, Malcolm - $4.00
HOCKEY, Joe - $6.50
ROBB, Andrew - $11.00
ANY CANDIDATE NOT LISTED - $12.00
PYNE, Christopher - $15.00
MORRISON, Scott - $21.00
BISHOP, Julie - $26.00
<big>_**ROY, Wyatt - $67.00**_</big>

 

[Kul]

Rob Oakshott is paying $51 to be PM at the next election!

 

[senexx]

What a bunch of whining sooks. I've said it before in this thread and I'll say it again

So often, the government with little or cursory debate rams through legislation, knowing it has the numbers. Government and Opposition backbenchers, and independents, are treated with disdain.

Now policy and legislation will be given the scrutiny it truly deserves from all over the country not just the highly populated areas where the votes are.

A cross-bench of independents, holding the balance of power, seems to me the most satisfactory solution to what is currently a representative vacuum.

It is a great Victory for Democracy. The democratic process has delivered the result Democracy has always intended, a balance of power in both houses.

This is Australia finally giving it's entire population what they all want - A Fair Go!

 

[Yossarian]

Coalition Leader - Next Federal Election - Coalition Leader - Next Election
ABBOTT, Tony - $1.60
TURNBULL, Malcolm - $4.00
HOCKEY, Joe - $6.50
ROBB, Andrew - $11.00
ANY CANDIDATE NOT LISTED - $12.00
PYNE, Christopher - $15.00
MORRISON, Scott - $21.00
BISHOP, Julie - $26.00
<big>_**ROY, Wyatt - $67.00**_</big>

Abbott would have do something stupid or tank really badly not to be leader. Turnbull isn't conservative enough and Hockey lacks the kahunas to do anything. Robb makes Kevin Rudd look like an excitement machine, Pyne has issues with his seat, Morrison isn't in the frame yet and Bishop would be a disaster.

Wyatt Roy? Well he's clearly no chance but he surprised me on election night with how well he presented himself.

 

[Yossarian]

Rob Oakshott is paying $51 to be PM at the next election!

If that came off it would make the Tandy and Pakistani cricket scandals look very second rate. I'd be looking at any betfair accounts in the names of M Arbib, J Gillard, or B Shorten :laughing:

Might as well be $51,000…