Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[TrueTiger]

All I can say in this situation...it doesnt matter what side of politics the USA is governed by ...it is a human tragedy that the innocent people are having businesses,home,cars etc destroyed by criminal groups acting under a particular banner eg(BLM)....when either side give in to minority rabble and dont send in the police or other law upholding groups to quell these idiots,then the country is pretty weak as far as leadership goes...Dems and Reps should both stand shoulder to shoulder to assert authority as one...to bad there is the Left tossers against the Gov in power instead of being the true UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..

 

[tigger]

I've copied this directly from the article posted by Tiger5150:

His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.

It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests. Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.

But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.

“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”


Some more background on Portland police
https://www.newsweek.com/why-portland-police-stand-passively-when-leftists-riot-1489799

Bottom line is (and back to answer GNR's point) when the police wont/cant protect you or your property, people are going to take things into their own hands and that will end badly.

I'm not familiar with Newsweek as a publication. Would you regard it as being fairly even-handed or does run with an agenda?

 

[Tiger5150]

I've copied this directly from the article posted by Tiger5150:

His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.

It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests. Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.

But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.

“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”


Some more background on Portland police
https://www.newsweek.com/why-portland-police-stand-passively-when-leftists-riot-1489799

Bottom line is (and back to answer GNR's point) when the police wont/cant protect you or your property, people are going to take things into their own hands and that will end badly.

I'm not familiar with Newsweek as a publication. Would you regard it as being fairly even-handed or does run with an agenda?

To be honest I am not familiar enough to say. In looking for that article or information, I admit I was looking for info to verify what I believe I know which is a dangerous way of finding information, verificationism.

The vast majority of information I receive, particularly about what is going on in Portland is from the Dark Horse Podcast which is two evolutionary biologists who live in Portland, Brett Weinstein and Heather Heying. They both became famous for an incident that happened at Evergreen College that was like a microcosm of what is now happening all over the US.

Both Brett and Heather are left wing liberals, who were involved in "Occupy Wall Street". They are a long way from the right wing but their accounts of what is going on in Portland and the rest of the US is very informative because they are unbiased (well at least not right leaning).

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5N_uAqApEUIlg32QzkPlg

 

[Harvey]

If you defund the police who maintains law and order and which laws do they uphold?

Some of the police actions look heinous and they should be held accountable.

The response from at least some of the protesters is worse.

If there is no police presence then property owners have the right to defend their property, and if that includes paying for an armed security force, so be it and the consequences

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Like I said, when you have a heavily armed and generally libertarian populace with a natural distrust for organised government and authority and a undertrained, militarised police force trying enforce it's authority problems will happen. Add in economic turbulence with a slimming middle class, growing working poor and now a pandemic, it's unsurprising that things are finally kicking off.

Conflict is all the population of the US knows. If they're not fighting someone on the other side of the planet for strategic reasons, they're fighting each other. A nation borne of, and fed on, bloodshed.

 

[weststigers]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

I know what the article says...I'm saying don't you think it's ridiculous that this even enters his mind?

What I said was pretty uncontroversial. The fact someone downvoted what I said just shows the absurd world we live in today.

I think it's fairly standard procedure, isn't it, for police to position themselves discreetly at protest gatherings if they believe that a high profile presence is likely to do more harm than good.

Reading between the lines of that article I took it to be saying that tension did ease when police kept a lower profile and that gave place to considering a full withdrawal.

So it doesn't surprise me that it would be tactically considered. After 3 months of this I guess you would have to consider doing something different.

You really are making it up as you go aren't you?

This whole time, different mayors across different cities have pulled police presence out of sensitivity to the BLM movement.

All that has resulted is more violence. It doesn't work. To suggest that "reading between the lines the tension eased when the police kept a low profile" is making up your own version of events.

No police = no order. It's very simple. The mayor has many examples of this.

Try this article. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/reaction-comes-after-ppb-has-few-officers-at-dueling-protests/283-d4d2117c-0618-4b67-9e85-a5b66e3d3229

 

[tigger]

I've copied this directly from the article posted by Tiger5150:

His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.

It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests. Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.

But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.

“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”


Some more background on Portland police
https://www.newsweek.com/why-portland-police-stand-passively-when-leftists-riot-1489799

Bottom line is (and back to answer GNR's point) when the police wont/cant protect you or your property, people are going to take things into their own hands and that will end badly.

I'm not familiar with Newsweek as a publication. Would you regard it as being fairly even-handed or does run with an agenda?


To be honest I am not familiar enough to say. In looking for that article or information, I admit I was looking for info to verify what I believe I know which is a dangerous way of finding information, verificationism.

The vast majority of information I receive, particularly about what is going on in Portland is from the Dark Horse Podcast which is two evolutionary biologists who live in Portland, Brett Weinstein and Heather Heying. They both became famous for an incident that happened at Evergreen College that was like a microcosm of what is now happening all over the US.

Both Brett and Heather are left wing liberals, who were involved in "Occupy Wall Street". They are a long way from the right wing but their accounts of what is going on in Portland and the rest of the US is very informative because they are unbiased (well at least not right leaning).

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi5N_uAqApEUIlg32QzkPlg

Thanks for posting that. Tells a very different side to the story, doesn't it?

Are you familiar with this site which grades media outlets by their perceived bias as either far left, left, centre, right or far right?

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/bret-weinsteins-darkhorse-podcast-media-bias

Dark Horse Podcast is graded as Centre, which is a nice place to go for political commentary.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Donald says Biden’s poll numbers are plunging. I don’t understand, aren’t the polls fake?

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon probably wins ohio and pennsylvania if he can win those two it could well lift him over the line, Biden may well get florida though

 

[tigger]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

I know what the article says...I'm saying don't you think it's ridiculous that this even enters his mind?

What I said was pretty uncontroversial. The fact someone downvoted what I said just shows the absurd world we live in today.

I think it's fairly standard procedure, isn't it, for police to position themselves discreetly at protest gatherings if they believe that a high profile presence is likely to do more harm than good.

Reading between the lines of that article I took it to be saying that tension did ease when police kept a lower profile and that gave place to considering a full withdrawal.

So it doesn't surprise me that it would be tactically considered. After 3 months of this I guess you would have to consider doing something different.

You really are making it up as you go aren't you?

This whole time, different mayors across different cities have pulled police presence out of sensitivity to the BLM movement.

All that has resulted is more violence. It doesn't work. To suggest that "reading between the lines the tension eased when the police kept a low profile" is making up your own version of events.

No police = no order. It's very simple. The mayor has many examples of this.

Try this article. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/reaction-comes-after-ppb-has-few-officers-at-dueling-protests/283-d4d2117c-0618-4b67-9e85-a5b66e3d3229

I don't think it's fair to say that mate.

What Tiger5150 and I were discussing was a news article and in that article it says:

" Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight."

So I'm really not making it up as I go along and when I talk about tensions easing when police kept a low profile I'm referring to that comment in that particular article attributed to the chief of police.

 

[Jedi_Tiger]

the left hinge on polling they may well be getting nervous that the script may not play out as planned for good old sleepy joe and the celebrity supporters. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon has time on his side reckon the race has a long way to go yet

 

[Harvey]

the left hinge on polling they may well be getting nervous that the script may not play out as planned for good old sleepy joe and the celebrity supporters. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon has time on his side reckon the race has a long way to go yet

I bet none of the celebrity supporters (or most democrat politicians) are having their property burned to the ground

 

[Guest]

I think we can all agree the US is a messed up country with an awful lot of social unrest.

 

[balmain boy]

The left rely on education. The right rely on fear and propaganda.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see a discussion of the validity and boas of news sources on here. Too many simply take any website as gospel. Like the 'article' listed earlier from a blogging site.

One can only hope that many Americans eyes have been opened by the severe incompetence of the beetroot currently in charge and won't tolerate his criminal and offensive ways anymore.

Honestly, with gun violence so predominant in america i'm surprised no one has tried to shoot Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon yet. The most evil and corrupt dictator america has ever seen, but i guess most right wing nra lunatics are largely republicans.

 

[weststigers]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

I know what the article says...I'm saying don't you think it's ridiculous that this even enters his mind?

What I said was pretty uncontroversial. The fact someone downvoted what I said just shows the absurd world we live in today.

I think it's fairly standard procedure, isn't it, for police to position themselves discreetly at protest gatherings if they believe that a high profile presence is likely to do more harm than good.

Reading between the lines of that article I took it to be saying that tension did ease when police kept a lower profile and that gave place to considering a full withdrawal.

So it doesn't surprise me that it would be tactically considered. After 3 months of this I guess you would have to consider doing something different.

You really are making it up as you go aren't you?

This whole time, different mayors across different cities have pulled police presence out of sensitivity to the BLM movement.

All that has resulted is more violence. It doesn't work. To suggest that "reading between the lines the tension eased when the police kept a low profile" is making up your own version of events.

No police = no order. It's very simple. The mayor has many examples of this.

Try this article. https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/reaction-comes-after-ppb-has-few-officers-at-dueling-protests/283-d4d2117c-0618-4b67-9e85-a5b66e3d3229

I don't think it's fair to say that mate.

What Tiger5150 and I were discussing was a news article and in that article it says:

" Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight."

So I'm really not making it up as I go along and when I talk about tensions easing when police kept a low profile I'm referring to that comment in that particular article attributed to the chief of police.

You're cherry picking to suit your narrative... you said that you read the article and what you got out of it was that "tension did ease" when police kept a lower profile (whatever that means).

*In late July, Mayor Ted Wheeler had an idea he hoped would end the nightly clashes between protesters and police in Portland.*

*He texted Sonia Schmanski, a top aide, that he had a plan that was “high risk,” but he added that the city had “nothing to lose.”*

***His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.***

This is not discussing a "lower profile" this idea was to totally stand down.

***It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests.** **Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.***

Wheeler - one guy "notices" a calming deescalation, so it must be true.

***But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.***

^^ Aaaannnndddd there you go....imagine what would happen without police to stop at least some violence and destruction.

*“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”**

The article goes on to say:

*How to translate these principles into on-the-ground tactics has flummoxed city leaders.*

*The worst nights follow the same script: **A large group takes to the streets calling for an end to police violence and systemic racism. A small fraction commits low-level crimes — often lighting small fires, graffiti-ing buildings and throwing fireworks or water bottles at officers.** The police respond with force against the entire crowd.*

This publication have got to be joking? Low-level crimes? Lighting small fires? Throwing fireworks and water bottles at police? What are these journos smoking? Why does this get any support?

But this line for me is the clincher and shows what a lop-sided piece this is:

*From the outset of protests, Wheeler was, in the eyes of some, ill-equipped to steer the city through a revolution: **a wealthy white man leading an overwhelmingly white city** and a police force with a long legacy of mistrust within communities of color.*

^^ and the real prejudice shines through...the guy has money and he's white, so he's ill-equipped to make decisions for his community. Pretty racist comment if you ask me.

What if I said, weeellll...Barrack Obama is black, so he's totally ill-equipped to understand what we want in a majority white country like America...I'd be massacred.

Removing the police does not deescalate the situation. It gives the rioters more room to inflict more damage.

 

[weststigers]

**The left rely on education. The right rely on fear and propaganda.**

I'm pleasantly surprised to see a discussion of the validity and boas of news sources on here. Too many simply take any website as gospel. Like the 'article' listed earlier from a blogging site.

One can only hope that many Americans eyes have been opened by the severe incompetence of the beetroot currently in charge and won't tolerate his criminal and offensive ways anymore.

Honestly, with gun violence so predominant in america i'm surprised no one has tried to shoot Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon yet. The most evil and corrupt dictator america has ever seen, but i guess most right wing nra lunatics are largely republicans.

I think you've got it the wrong way around my friend.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

**The left rely on education. The right rely on fear and propaganda.**

I'm pleasantly surprised to see a discussion of the validity and boas of news sources on here. Too many simply take any website as gospel. Like the 'article' listed earlier from a blogging site.

One can only hope that many Americans eyes have been opened by the severe incompetence of the beetroot currently in charge and won't tolerate his criminal and offensive ways anymore.

Honestly, with gun violence so predominant in america i'm surprised no one has tried to shoot Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon yet. The most evil and corrupt dictator america has ever seen, but i guess most right wing nra lunatics are largely republicans.

I think you've got it the wrong way around my friend.

You're both half right. The moderate parts of the left and right rely on education. The far left and right both feed on fear and propaganda.

 

[TillLindemann]

white man leading an overwhelmingly white city

"white man leading an overwhelmingly white city". Yes it's interesting that this is used as a pejorative. Presumably if it was "a white man leading an overwhelmingly black city" it would also be seen as bad, as he'd be painted as unrepresentative.

 

[Harvey]

The left rely on education. The right rely on fear and propaganda.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see a discussion of the validity and boas of news sources on here. Too many simply take any website as gospel. Like the 'article' listed earlier from a blogging site.

One can only hope that many Americans eyes have been opened by the severe incompetence of the beetroot currently in charge and won't tolerate his criminal and offensive ways anymore.

Honestly, with gun violence so predominant in america i'm surprised no one has tried to shoot Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon yet. The most evil and corrupt dictator america has ever seen, but i guess most right wing nra lunatics are largely republicans.

If "education" means indoctrination and a lynch mob mentality against any form of disagreement, yes that is what the left stand for

 

[Tiger5150]

the left hinge on polling they may well be getting nervous that the script may not play out as planned for good old sleepy joe and the celebrity supporters. Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon has time on his side reckon the race has a long way to go yet

IMO the moderate left have been very happy to let or encourage the riots and nightly violence as it fits a narrative that the US isnt working. The stronger far left are happy to encourage the rioting because they want to tear down the system.

Trouble for the democrats is it is starting to be seen for what it is and its getting harder to sell as people die and properties burn. If Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon runs on a law and order platform, he might make it.