Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Tim Sheens]

The results of a President encouraging uprising and militia, as part of running a campaign of division has claimed another life as things ramp up even further. Whether it be agitators on either side of the fence or simply the easily led, violence is never good, nor is condoning it, but to encourage domination of those speaking out on civil issues or against him, to run a campaign based on fear is downright wrong.

The US desperately needs a new leader and definitely more than that at any time during my lifetime. This problem should have been fixed in February, with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon removed and another candidate endorsed during this past week.
.

Did you even read the article that this bloke is quoting? This person was shot by BLM...

This is like the gay-basher telling everyone else how awful it is to bash gays.

Yes and yes it is. I grew and got past the prejudices of homophobia and racism in society as a child decades ago, which is when I acted upon such indoctrination, then rejected it to become a decent caring person as I got past that rubbish in my youth. Always happy to admit my faults and even the struggle to push the remnants of that crap fully from the depths of my mind.

 

[weststigers]

The results of a President encouraging uprising and militia, as part of running a campaign of division has claimed another life as things ramp up even further. Whether it be agitators on either side of the fence or simply the easily led, violence is never good, nor is condoning it, but to encourage domination of those speaking out on civil issues or against him, to run a campaign based on fear is downright wrong.

The US desperately needs a new leader and definitely more than that at any time during my lifetime. This problem should have been fixed in February, with Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon removed and another candidate endorsed during this past week.
.

Did you even read the article that this bloke is quoting? This person was shot by BLM...

This is like the gay-basher telling everyone else how awful it is to bash gays.

Yes and yes it is. I grew and got past the prejudices of homophobia and racism in society as a child decades ago, which is when I acted upon such indoctrination, then rejected it to become a decent caring person as I got past that rubbish in my youth. Always happy to admit my faults and even the struggle to push the remnants of that crap fully from the depths of my mind.

Here he is....

 

[TillLindemann]

Disgraceful the narrative that CNN push though.



I haven't read the CNN report on this incident but it wouldn't surprise me. CNN are very one-sided (anti-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon/pro Democrat). They are the reverse image of Fox News (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon/Republican Party can do no wrong).

It's interesting how polarised the US media is. We've got it a bit here but not to the extent of the obvious biases in the US.

I'm not sure what to put that down to.

Australia's compulsory voting system has the by-product of forcing our political parties to appeal to the mainstream. If either party shifts too much to the left or the right, the electorate usually rejects them. (Or, like Abbott, they get knifed by their own mob in anticipation of the electorate rejecting them).

Perhaps the centrist views of the majority of Australians are reflected in our media, which is just playing to the gallery.

I agree Fox and CNN are as bad as each other. I know Australia can be polarised at times, but nothing like America. There's 2 Americas living in completely separate worlds, with nothing in common. Without being hysterical, it almost does feel like a pre-civil war climate.

Maybe if the US had a decently funded public broadcaster like the ABC it would make a difference to the extreme media partisanship. ( The rest of the '5 eyes' countries all do). I know some think the ABC is a bit 'lefty', but you don't tend to find quality investigative journalism like 4 Corners in the for-profit media.

Every media outlet has an agenda, the ABC is no different.

Not saying they don't, but I think a public broadcaster can be part of a healthy media landscape.

 

[TillLindemann]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Hyperpartisanship is cancer.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.

What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, it’s not his job. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.

 

[TillLindemann]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, it’s not his job. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.

I think in his mind he wanted to stop the people who did this to Kenosha:




 

[OzLuke]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, it’s not his job. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.

why would anyone walk up to someone holding an automatic weapon and try to take it off them?
To be fair all these people who put themselves in this situation are to blame....it's not one side or the other it's all of them.....

 

[TrueTiger]

A vast majority of people young or old know whats right and what s wrong....
shooting,burning,looting and bashings are all wrong...

people should be held to account for their own actions and not blame current situations to cloud their true human feelings...

A couple of the TEN commandments come to mind...
thou shalt not kill
thou shalt not steal..

 

[Tiger5150]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.

I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

 

[tigger]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

 

[Tiger5150]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Thats a reasonable take on it. I also think it reflects the problem when the elected official wants to play politics and make political mileage from a circumstance (support BLM) and virtue signal however the lack of policing has a real time impact and people and dying and property is being destroyed. Peoples life savings wiped.

 

[tigger]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.


Thats a reasonable take on it. I also think it reflects the problem when the elected official wants to play politics and make political mileage from a circumstance (support BLM) and virtue signal however the lack of policing has a real time impact and people and dying and property is being destroyed. Peoples life savings wiped.

Agreed. The middle of a crisis is not when you want to see your elected leaders playing politics. A point I've made a number of times in relation to Australian politicians and coronavirus.

The other thing that stood out to me was all the talk about citizens' first amendment rights. The counterbalance to individuals' rights is individuals' obligations. There was no discussion at all in that article about citizens' obligations in regard to the safety of other people and their property.

The whole place is out of whack. They've lost the plot.

 

[weststigers]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

 

[tigger]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

 

[tigger]

I've copied this directly from the article posted by Tiger5150:

His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.

It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests. Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.

But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.

“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”

 

[Tiger5150]

I've copied this directly from the article posted by Tiger5150:

His idea: Tell his police force to stand down from the demonstrations.

It was a move protesters had urged for months, arguing that police decked in riot gear needlessly raised the tensions of the nightly protests. Wheeler told OPB he, too, had noticed a “calming deescalating effect” on nights when police stayed out of sight.

But the protests soon drifted to the east side of the city. And Wheeler said he was persuaded that the plan was too dicey as protesters began targeting police buildings near homes in residential neighborhoods.

“I was persuaded that a complete withdrawal, even for one evening to test the ability to completely deescalate the situation, would be a risk that was too great,” he said in an interview last week. “We could not risk the people who were in the immediate vicinity.”

Some more background on Portland police
https://www.newsweek.com/why-portland-police-stand-passively-when-leftists-riot-1489799

Bottom line is (and back to answer GNR's point) when the police wont/cant protect you or your property, people are going to take things into their own hands and that will end badly.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Biden tweeted that he rejects violence regardless if it’s left or right. Should only be a matter of time till Donald follows suit...right?

 

[weststigers]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

I know what the article says...I'm saying don't you think it's ridiculous that this even enters his mind?

What I said was pretty uncontroversial. The fact someone downvoted what I said just shows the absurd world we live in today.

 

[tigger]

Interesting how the media portrays people to fit their narrative.....

Left media portrays the two men killed at the kenosha shootings as angels and heroes despite having a good criminal history, including one of them sexual assault of a minor....

The right media portray the shooter as a patriot who was defending his country while travelling to a rioting area illegally carrying firearms.....

Man alive if it doesn't sum up how mental things are in the US at the moment.....

Yep. And then the next day, a protestor shoots a Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon supporter, and the argument of both sides reverses.

It's pure tribalism now. Both sides hate each other, cannot imagine themselves in the other side's shoes, and are increasingly turning to violence. Things look very ominous indeed.


What is a 17 year old doing walking round with a firearm? Even if you want to believe his intentions were good and he was just a good boy defending property, ***it’s not his job***. He was only going to get himself into trouble. And what do you know, he did.


I agree with you that it is not a 17yo's job. So who's job is it? I would think in the first instance it is the City Polices job to defend lives and property from violent rioters, looters and arsonists, however when the Democratic City Mayor Ted Wheeler (who happens to be chief of police as well) ***actually instructs the police to stand down and not attend*** the "demonstrations", who is going to protect life and property then?
https://www.opb.org/article/2020/08/24/portlands-protests-three-months-in-no-end-in-sight/

The Federal Government (Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon) offers to send in 500 national guard to quell riots and restore order and Ted Wheeler decides its much more important to make cheap political points by sending a smart ass letter to Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon publicly than save peoples lives and property.
https://www.portland.gov/wheeler/news/2020/8/28/mayor-wheelers-open-letter-president-Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon

In any civilised society, the governments monopoly on violence is one of the most basic elements. In these democrat cities, they are intentionally giving up that monopoly in order to subjugate the system.

When the police cant and wont protect you or your property and the city government publicly state that the law wont be enforced, people are always going to revert to having to protect themselves. Now this kid wasnt protecting HIS property and IMO shouldnt have been there with his gun, but this is the environment that has led to this.

That's an interesting article. When you read through it, it's clear that the mayor didn't instruct the police to stand down. He considered it as an option for de-escalating tensions and had the police adopt a lower profile but, in the end, decided that standing down was too high a risk.

It's an interesting structure isn't it, with an elected official (the mayor) taking on the role of police chief. I guess that's in keeping with the crazy US process of judges, prosecutors, sheriffs etc being elected officials.

When a manager has no background in the business he is supposed to be managing then it's highly likely that the business end up managing him. This guy seems to be out of his depth and it wouldn't surprise me if he was captive to the department he is supposed to be managing.

If so, the problems there may well have their roots in a lack of leadership and structural inadequacies in the governance of the police department.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous when the public are looting, rioting, shooting and killing and the mayor says that in order to de-escalate tensions, we should have less police?

These people are criminals in every sense of the word!

Now we are going to stop policing because the people breaking the law don't like being arrested for it...the world is nuts!

That's not what the article said.

It said that the presence of police in full riot gear might have pushed some people to bad behaviour. The mayor considered standing down police to see if it would reduce the level of violence but decided it was too risky and didn't do it.

So the mayor didn't say it and didn't do it. He considered it and rejected it.

I know what the article says...I'm saying don't you think it's ridiculous that this even enters his mind?

What I said was pretty uncontroversial. The fact someone downvoted what I said just shows the absurd world we live in today.

I think it's fairly standard procedure, isn't it, for police to position themselves discreetly at protest gatherings if they believe that a high profile presence is likely to do more harm than good.

Reading between the lines of that article I took it to be saying that tension did ease when police kept a lower profile and that gave place to considering a full withdrawal.

So it doesn't surprise me that it would be tactically considered. After 3 months of this I guess you would have to consider doing something different.