Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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Yeah it was a stupid call most definetly, however from what I saw he was trying to fit in with those around him and it really shouldn't have been an issue at all. Now the family have to put up with this story being played out in the media again because this moron Riley was trying to get in a bit of political point scoring. In my book he's a world class jerk-off for doing this.

As for Gillard Hammer, I'd like to think she was being genuine - you'd hope so anyway, but she is such a fake and manufactured identity that I wouldn't put anything past her. Bunging on the tears isn't beneath her or her party in general. They've stooped lower…...
 
@stryker said:
As for Gillard Hammer, I'd like to think she was being genuine - you'd hope so anyway, but she is such a fake and manufactured identity that I wouldn't put anything past her. Bunging on the tears isn't beneath her or her party in general. They've stooped lower…...

Completely agree Stryker.

I like to think she was genuine too, otherwise she is a brilliant actor. The timing was just questionable. It's the main thing I despise about them though. The whole front bench always seems to have come from a coaching session on the talking points to stay on. Gillard, Rudd, Wong, Garrett. Conroy on the other hand isn't, but he definitely is the biggest douchebag I have ever seen in my life.

If Rudd had displayed the emotion he did when he got booted in that press conference, I would have like the guy a lot more. Both of them are so robotic it just feels hard to think they care about the people of the country. Maybe I'm just an entrenched liberal supporter??

In other news, What do you guys think about this report?

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/nbn-costs-taxpayers-24-times-south-korea-at-one-tenth-the-speed-report-20110209-1amm2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think Conroy is pretty devious on one hand using a pro-argument for the NBN by saying well Korea, Singapore, Japan etc have all built a NBN, so we should. Then on the other hand saying that 'well they aren't the same as this country'…
 
Here is the summary text from the economist.

'Australia, the country with the highest-profile and most controversial public-sector scheme, also falls in the bottom half of the index, mainly because it is spending a colossal 7.58% of annual government budget revenues on its National Broadband Network. In South Korea, by comparison, the government is spending less than 1% of annual budget revenues to realise its broadband goals, achieving targets by encouraging the private sector to invest in the country's broadband future.'
 
@hammertime said:
Yeah, the media blew it up, but it was stupid of Abbott. I think the comment was trying to really say to the guys involved 'there was nothing that you could have done. But really, what is he thinking? I really don't think he should be leader of the liberals. I can't ever see him being PM.

Speaking about being PM worthy though. Anyone see Gillards tears in parliament? 6 years of being in the spotlight and showing no emotion and suddenly after the media puts the spotlight on that fact, on come the waterworks. Questionable considering how much coaching goes into the Labor party.

It is something I admire about the Liberals. At least people Johnny, Costello, Abbott, Hockey, Turnbull and Joyce show themselves for who they are.

couldn't agree more … total morons and liars !!!
 
I agree with the comments on this Mark Riley report. He can't call himself a journalist after this. No-one should use the death of a fallen soldier and spin it in anyway. No exceptions.

The whole stare later at Mark Riley has seemed to become an issue. If he just punched him in the face, he would probably have a better approval rating.

Our PM Julia definitely had crocodile tears. She has had the emotions of a terminator since I can remember and when told about it, is crying the next day. Either way it has kind of been forgot about with Tony's saga.
 
@stryker said:
This was absolute bottom feeding, gutter journalism from Mark Riley and he should be ashamed of himself. I really hope he cops the backlash that I believe is coming his way.

I always thought Mark Riley was more an entertainer than a journalist - but I was wrong. He's more a comedian than either.
 
@Allan Towle said:
I agree with the comments on this Mark Riley report. He can't call himself a journalist after this. No-one should use the death of a fallen soldier and spin it in anyway. No exceptions.

The whole stare later at Mark Riley has seemed to become an issue. If he just punched him in the face, he would probably have a better approval rating.

Our PM Julia definitely had crocodile tears. She has had the emotions of a terminator since I can remember and when told about it, is crying the next day. Either way it has kind of been forgot about with Tony's saga.

Wow - that seems very even-handed of you. Tony = great, Julia = awful?
This is the same Tony who tried to use the alleged lack of equipment as a reason for the same soldier's death to score political points right?
 
@hammertime said:
@stryker said:
As for Gillard Hammer, I'd like to think she was being genuine - you'd hope so anyway, but she is such a fake and manufactured identity that I wouldn't put anything past her. Bunging on the tears isn't beneath her or her party in general. They've stooped lower…...

Completely agree Stryker.

I like to think she was genuine too, otherwise she is a brilliant actor. The timing was just questionable. It's the main thing I despise about them though. The whole front bench always seems to have come from a coaching session on the talking points to stay on. Gillard, Rudd, Wong, Garrett. Conroy on the other hand isn't, but he definitely is the biggest douchebag I have ever seen in my life.

If Rudd had displayed the emotion he did when he got booted in that press conference, I would have like the guy a lot more. Both of them are so robotic it just feels hard to think they care about the people of the country. Maybe I'm just an entrenched liberal supporter??

In other news, What do you guys think about this report?

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/nbn-costs-taxpayers-24-times-south-korea-at-one-tenth-the-speed-report-20110209-1amm2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think Conroy is pretty devious on one hand using a pro-argument for the NBN by saying well Korea, Singapore, Japan etc have all built a NBN, so we should. Then on the other hand saying that 'well they aren't the same as this country'…

The main gripe of the report was the level of govt funding - it came from a right-wing think tank - it doesn't really criticise the quality of the proposal. But as Conroy said (on another topic) you're comparing apples with oranges. Conroy's comparison with Korea et al has been on the speed and access of their system, not the cost of doing it. Quite rightly he points out building a system with a massive population density like Korea, Japan, and Singapore is going to be a lot cheaper than in Aust.
 
@Yossarian said:
The main gripe of the report was the level of govt funding - it came from a right-wing think tank - it doesn't really criticise the quality of the proposal. But as Conroy said (on another topic) you're comparing apples with oranges. Conroy's comparison with Korea et al has been on the speed and access of their system, not the cost of doing it. Quite rightly he points out building a system with a massive population density like Korea, Japan, and Singapore is going to be a lot cheaper than in Aust.

Yes, that is true. But don't you think our unique geographical landscape is good a reason not to build it? It can't be a defense. He can't use Korea, Japan, Singapore as rational to build the NBN, then say it's not comparable.

If we took an extreme example, and say there are 10 people in all of Australia. So, $3 billion per head. Would you still build it? There is a financial point, and I think $4k per household is easily beyond that, where the benefit to cost no where near stacks up. In Korea, the proposal stacks up, we don't.

It's obvious wireless would suit this unique landscape better. Or maybe redistricting cable to the coast line (which could possible be around the same cable length as Korea)? If there is one thing the economist is doing right, it shows that our costs don't allow us to compete this way, just like Korea can't compete with industries like our farming which requires an abundance of land.

We need to think big picture, to the future, and implement wireless. To spend this much on restrictive technology, purely for a bit more speed, is just insane. However, with Labors simplistic, dumbed down approach to every piece of policy, that won't happen.
 
@hammertime said:
@Yossarian said:
The main gripe of the report was the level of govt funding - it came from a right-wing think tank - it doesn't really criticise the quality of the proposal. But as Conroy said (on another topic) you're comparing apples with oranges. Conroy's comparison with Korea et al has been on the speed and access of their system, not the cost of doing it. Quite rightly he points out building a system with a massive population density like Korea, Japan, and Singapore is going to be a lot cheaper than in Aust.

Yes, that is true. But don't you think our unique geographical landscape is good a reason not to build it? It can't be a defense. He can't use Korea, Japan, Singapore as rational to build the NBN, then say it's not comparable.

If we took an extreme example, and say there are 10 people in all of Australia. So, $3 billion per head. Would you still build it? There is a financial point, and I think $4k per household is easily beyond that, where the benefit to cost no where near stacks up. In Korea, the proposal stacks up, we don't.

It's obvious wireless would suit this unique landscape better. Or maybe redistricting cable to the coast line (which could possible be around the same cable length as Korea)? If there is one thing the economist is doing right, it shows that our costs don't allow us to compete this way, just like Korea can't compete with industries like our farming which requires an abundance of land.

We need to think big picture, to the future, and implement wireless. To spend this much on restrictive technology, purely for a bit more speed, is just insane. However, with Labors simplistic, dumbed down approach to every piece of policy, that won't happen.

The actual drain on the budget is going to be a lot less that the stated cost. In any event I don't think we should deny ourselves world's best practices because we live in a big country. We're also a rich country - if it needs to be done we should do it.

I'll be honest and admit I lack the technical background to comment too much on wireless vs cabling. I've read articles and quotes from pretty smart people who have backed the NBN model and some who don't.
 
@Yossarian said:
The actual drain on the budget is going to be a lot less that the stated cost. In any event I don't think we should deny ourselves world's best practices because we live in a big country. We're also a rich country - if it needs to be done we should do it.

I'll be honest and admit I lack the technical background to comment too much on wireless vs cabling. I've read articles and quotes from pretty smart people who have backed the NBN model and some who don't.

Well yes, I agree on that. The board of the NBN propose that it will return most of the funds in 10 years (but they do have a self interest in the project). But from all reports, Tasmania is already massively over budget. They are trying to do this while unemployment is low which scares me. It not only makes finding the skills hard, but pushes up wage inflation.

I'm in IT sort of.. but I don't know too much about it. So we are in the same boat Yoss, but for me, the technical side of the equation has been given too much prominence and it's all people seem to comment on. The question for me is the business side of it. FTTP is very limiting and you have seen how much of the focus has moved to portability. In my way of thinking, there is tonnes more potential for innovation, work life balance and for us to be world leaders in this new wireless world market.

If there are doubts, why are we doing it? $50billion can be spent anytime. Why not do it if there comes a point the business case actually stacks up? I'm not comfy with a spend of this magnitude, with a hope & pray outlook, especially when it's from debt. It reeks of Labor policy, spend now, hide the information, worry later.
 
bump

have you ever seen odds as solid as this?

Winning Party NSW - Next Election - WINNER
COALITION 1.015
AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY 15.00
 
@hammertime said:
@Yossarian said:
The actual drain on the budget is going to be a lot less that the stated cost. In any event I don't think we should deny ourselves world's best practices because we live in a big country. We're also a rich country - if it needs to be done we should do it.

I'll be honest and admit I lack the technical background to comment too much on wireless vs cabling. I've read articles and quotes from pretty smart people who have backed the NBN model and some who don't.

Well yes, I agree on that. The board of the NBN propose that it will return most of the funds in 10 years (but they do have a self interest in the project). But from all reports, Tasmania is already massively over budget. They are trying to do this while unemployment is low which scares me. It not only makes finding the skills hard, but pushes up wage inflation.

I'm in IT sort of.. but I don't know too much about it. So we are in the same boat Yoss, but for me, the technical side of the equation has been given too much prominence and it's all people seem to comment on. The question for me is the business side of it. FTTP is very limiting and you have seen how much of the focus has moved to portability. In my way of thinking, there is tonnes more potential for innovation, work life balance and for us to be world leaders in this new wireless world market.

If there are doubts, why are we doing it? $50billion can be spent anytime. Why not do it if there comes a point the business case actually stacks up? I'm not comfy with a spend of this magnitude, with a hope & pray outlook, especially when it's from debt. It reeks of Labor policy, spend now, hide the information, worry later.

hers an idea instead of fixing NBN at our cost share cost through private sector of telecommunications and then use 46 billion on wind farms to save on electricity costs
 
@happy tiger said:
@hammertime said:
@Yossarian said:
The actual drain on the budget is going to be a lot less that the stated cost. In any event I don't think we should deny ourselves world's best practices because we live in a big country. We're also a rich country - if it needs to be done we should do it.

I'll be honest and admit I lack the technical background to comment too much on wireless vs cabling. I've read articles and quotes from pretty smart people who have backed the NBN model and some who don't.

Well yes, I agree on that. The board of the NBN propose that it will return most of the funds in 10 years (but they do have a self interest in the project). But from all reports, Tasmania is already massively over budget. They are trying to do this while unemployment is low which scares me. It not only makes finding the skills hard, but pushes up wage inflation.

I'm in IT sort of.. but I don't know too much about it. So we are in the same boat Yoss, but for me, the technical side of the equation has been given too much prominence and it's all people seem to comment on. The question for me is the business side of it. FTTP is very limiting and you have seen how much of the focus has moved to portability. In my way of thinking, there is tonnes more potential for innovation, work life balance and for us to be world leaders in this new wireless world market.

If there are doubts, why are we doing it? $50billion can be spent anytime. Why not do it if there comes a point the business case actually stacks up? I'm not comfy with a spend of this magnitude, with a hope & pray outlook, especially when it's from debt. It reeks of Labor policy, spend now, hide the information, worry later.

hers an idea instead of fixing NBN at our cost share cost through private sector of telecommunications and then use 46 billion on wind farms to save on electricity costs

Wind farms are ridiculously expensive and inefficient.
 
@Cultured Bogan said:
@happy tiger said:
@hammertime said:
@Yossarian said:
The actual drain on the budget is going to be a lot less that the stated cost. In any event I don't think we should deny ourselves world's best practices because we live in a big country. We're also a rich country - if it needs to be done we should do it.

I'll be honest and admit I lack the technical background to comment too much on wireless vs cabling. I've read articles and quotes from pretty smart people who have backed the NBN model and some who don't.

Well yes, I agree on that. The board of the NBN propose that it will return most of the funds in 10 years (but they do have a self interest in the project). But from all reports, Tasmania is already massively over budget. They are trying to do this while unemployment is low which scares me. It not only makes finding the skills hard, but pushes up wage inflation.

I'm in IT sort of.. but I don't know too much about it. So we are in the same boat Yoss, but for me, the technical side of the equation has been given too much prominence and it's all people seem to comment on. The question for me is the business side of it. FTTP is very limiting and you have seen how much of the focus has moved to portability. In my way of thinking, there is tonnes more potential for innovation, work life balance and for us to be world leaders in this new wireless world market.

If there are doubts, why are we doing it? $50billion can be spent anytime. Why not do it if there comes a point the business case actually stacks up? I'm not comfy with a spend of this magnitude, with a hope & pray outlook, especially when it's from debt. It reeks of Labor policy, spend now, hide the information, worry later.

hers an idea instead of fixing NBN at our cost share cost through private sector of telecommunications and then use 46 billion on wind farms to save on electricity costs

Wind farms are ridiculously expensive and inefficient.

if they are placed in the right area they can be effective . Just don't let some govt Johnny decide where to put them
 
@happy tiger said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Wind farms are ridiculously expensive and inefficient.

if they are placed in the right area they can be effective . Just don't let some govt Johnny decide where to put them

They are a logisitical nightmare. Nobody does wind farms on a large scale for that reason. You need a stack of them to make any decent power and if you build them near people, the locals are up in arms. Build them too far away and you've got the problem of connecting to the grid.

In any event the two should not be mutually exclusive. The NBN proposal suggests returns and efficiencies that will overcome the cost to govt at start-up. We shouldn't be talking about taking money off it for renewable energy - renewable energy is a big enough issue in itself. We should be committing more money to it - for starters, all new houses should have to have a minimum number of panels.
 
@Yossarian said:
@happy tiger said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Wind farms are ridiculously expensive and inefficient.

if they are placed in the right area they can be effective . Just don't let some govt Johnny decide where to put them

They are a logisitical nightmare. Nobody does wind farms on a large scale for that reason. You need a stack of them to make any decent power and if you build them near people, the locals are up in arms. Build them too far away and you've got the problem of connecting to the grid.

In any event the two should not be mutually exclusive. The NBN proposal suggests returns and efficiencies that will overcome the cost to govt at start-up. We shouldn't be talking about taking money off it for renewable energy - renewable energy is a big enough issue in itself. We should be committing more money to it - for starters, all new houses should have to have a minimum number of panels.

But are we getting value 4 money with NBN ???No doubt by the time it is finished it will cost us at least 20% more . Agree with minimum amount of panels for new houses . I hope to hear more of the development of solar paint also If we can develop that to an acceptable and affordable level that should also be a prerequisite to all new homes and also giving rebates to existing homes that use it in future .
 
@happy tiger said:
@Yossarian said:
@happy tiger said:
@Cultured Bogan said:
Wind farms are ridiculously expensive and inefficient.

if they are placed in the right area they can be effective . Just don't let some govt Johnny decide where to put them

They are a logisitical nightmare. Nobody does wind farms on a large scale for that reason. You need a stack of them to make any decent power and if you build them near people, the locals are up in arms. Build them too far away and you've got the problem of connecting to the grid.

In any event the two should not be mutually exclusive. The NBN proposal suggests returns and efficiencies that will overcome the cost to govt at start-up. We shouldn't be talking about taking money off it for renewable energy - renewable energy is a big enough issue in itself. We should be committing more money to it - for starters, all new houses should have to have a minimum number of panels.

But are we getting value 4 money with NBN ???No doubt by the time it is finished it will cost us at least 20% more . Agree with minimum amount of panels for new houses . I hope to hear more of the development of solar paint also If we can develop that to an acceptable and affordable level that should also be a prerequisite to all new homes and also giving rebates to existing homes that use it in future .

Well all I'm saying is the cost benefit analysis of the NBN is its own issue. As I've said previously, I probably lack the technical knowledge to make an informed assessment of a lot of the claims but the people who have done the analysis aren't idiots. Nor are some of the people making counter claims. Most people agree that having faster broadband speeds will have some economic benefit - the question is whether these benefits justify the outlay.

On the other topic, I agree that money spent on items for new homes that improve sustainability provide a big bang for your buck. Making things like that compulsory will soon bring the price down too as more suppliers enter the field.
 
great article by Miranda Devine

FUKUSHIMA is the world's best advertisement for nuclear energy.
>
The Japanese nuclear power complex is like a Tonka Truck. It's so tough that you can put it through a magnitude 9 earthquake and a 14m tsunami and it's still standing, with no armageddon in sight.
>
After a couple of nail-biting weeks and hyperventilating headlines, valiant power plant workers - the "nuclear samurai" - are making "slow and steady progress" to bring the emergency under control.
>
Yesterday they managed to restore power to all six crippled reactors.
>
The only fatalities at the plant have been by traditional means, such as falling debris, not from radiation.
>
And, while not dismissing the gravity of contamination in the food chain, atomic energy authorities have pronounced it harmless to human health.
>
Nuclear energy was set its toughest test on the northeast coast of Japan, and it passed.
>
And the rebounding Nikkei on Tuesday shows that investors, initially spooked by nuclear hyperbole, have been reassured by the improving situation at Fukushima.
>
Of course just the words "nuclear" and "emergency" are enough to put the fear of God into anyone.
>
And, sure enough, opinion polls show that the popularity of nuclear energy has plummeted in the wake of the Fukushima emergency - from about 43 per cent to 35 per cent, according to the latest Essential poll this week.
>
But when you think about it, Fukushima shows how resilient even a 40-year-old, inadequately maintained nuclear plant can be.
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And, in the scheme of things, with more than 20,000 people dead in the rest of Japan and a massive rebuilding operation still to come, what are a few millisieverts of radiation between friends?
>
The only people really put at risk were the firefighters and power plant workers at the site, more than 20 of whom have been injured - one with broken legs. Several more workers were reported to have been injured yesterday.
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It's true that as each day passes, as they battle to get the reactors under control, these workers are being exposed to levels of radiation with potential future health effects.
>
A sign of the ongoing hazards came yesterday afternoon when the plant was evacuated again after radiation levels spiked dangerously.
>
There are lessons to be learned from Fukushima, for sure, and questions, especially, to be asked of the Tokyo Electric Company, whose chequered safety and regulatory history and slapdash housekeeping appears to have exacerbated problems at the ageing plant.
>
It was already on notice from Japan's atomic energy watchdog before the earthquake.
>
The company reportedly has a history of falsifying maintenance records and in 2002 admitted to an "inadequate safety culture".
>
It had also stored used fuel rods on site, many more than it was designed to contain safely.
>
These spent rods were uncovered during the earthquake-tsunami crisis and now pose the greatest ongoing radiation hazard.
>
The UN's atomic watchdog, the IAEA, is also under pressure to be more pro-active rather than relying on individual countries to monitor their own nuclear safety.
>
But, for all that, now we can see that the threat of Fukushima was overblown.
>
So how does any self-respecting green continue to oppose nuclear power in a country with 40 per cent of the world's accessible uranium reserves?
>
Australia, of all places, should be at the vanguard of atomic energy and research.
>
In fact, there has been talk among engineers of Australia becoming the world's primary nuclear storage facility, since we can cheaply and safely store nuclear waste underground thanks to our very stable geology and abundant remote potential storage areas.
>
The peace bonus is that we would ship out the uranium and ship the waste back in, and at the same time account for input and output to ensure that nothing is being diverted into nuclear weaponry. Thus Australia can do its duty as a good global citizen, and make some money along the way.
>
It's a win/win.
>
Yet Australia's Greens continue to reject nuclear energy out of hand and indulge in a dishonest fantasy of wind farms and solar panels as a power panacea.
>
Prime Minister Julia Gillard yesterday visited a wind farm at Bungendore, near Canberra, to promote her edict that Australia must produce 20 per cent of its power from renewables by 2020.
>
She didn't mention the fact that wind is the most inefficient and expensive way to reduce carbon emissions. Nor did she acknowledge that the rush to wind farms has caused untold misery to people all over country NSW and Victoria who find themselves with whirring 150m tall structures looming over their homes.
>
Nor that wind cannot replace coal because it is not reliable enough to provide the baseload, ever-available power we need.
>
Only nuclear can do that.
>
One famous greenie, the Guardian's George Monbiot, has seen the light. On Monday he published an article titled: "How the Fukushima disaster taught me to stop worrying and embrace nuclear power."
>
"You will not be surprised to hear that the events in Japan have changed my view of nuclear power," he wrote.
>
"You will be surprised to hear how they have changed it. As a result of the disaster at Fukushima, I am no longer nuclear-neutral. I now support the technology."
>
Hats off to Monbiot. But he is in the minority.
>
Bob Brown's Greens remain opposed to nuclear energy, as they are to another source of clean power, hydro-electricity, because they don't like dams.
>
But it is time for them to stand up and be counted on nuclear energy.
>
If carbon dioxide emissions are as lethal as they claim, then surely the risks of nuclear power will pale by comparison.
>
As the only form of baseload energy with virtually zero carbon emissions, nuclear is the only solution for those, like the Prime Minister, who claim a "low-carbon" world is necessary to prevent climate catastrophe. (Well, there is one other solution, which BlueScope Steel chairman Graham Kraehe suggested sarcastically this week while criticising Gillard's carbon tax at the National Press Club. We could stop exporting coal and wreck our economy.)
>
The truth is, greens who oppose nuclear energy don't really care about carbon dioxide emissions or global warming. They know the hype is just a means to an end.
>
They want us to reduce our consumption of power and change our way of life. They want to stall progress, and have everyone live like Wombles.
 
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