Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[mike]

If any individual is planning or instigating terrorism or sedition on the internet, then security agencies already have the capability to track down and prosecute that person.

Have people so soon forgotten all the previous laws we've had forced down our throats to "Stop Them Terrorists!" ? The metadata laws rushed through parliament - supported by both Liberal and Labor, with only a few courageous politicians like Scott Ludlam and Andrew Wilkie dissenting?

With laws like that in place, you think if I'm posting on the net calling to kill politicians or overthrow the government, that security agencies can't track me down and prosecute me? Of course they can! You target the individual making the threats or breaking the law, you don't remove whole platforms and further tighten what is considered acceptable political speech.

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet. If you are determined to do it you can. That’s why scams are so insidious and successful, it’s very difficult, not impossible with a lot of resources, to identify the perpetrators. Ask the FBI how easy it is to decrypt an iPhone, it’s not easy at all.

 

[TillLindemann]

I have virtually no doubt that Ilhan Omar, AOC and the others long targets of vitriol from the cult leader would have been killed

Getting into the realm of pre crime.

"if only those Muslims had got past police, they would have..."
"if only those environmentalists had... "
"If only those CFMEU members had..."

We are all Dick Cheney now

# Je Suis Dick Cheney

Okay, based on what you have seen and no doubt knowing that these type of people have been threatening the above mentioned, do you think their lives were at grave risk or not, yes or no?

Nope. I genuinely don't.

Whoever laid pipe bombs at the Republican and Democrat headquarters (NOT at the Capitol as is repeatedly made out) was a terrorist intending harm.

But the protest itself at the Capitol is the most hysterically over-hyped event in modern political history. Soon the myth will be told that thousands of people in KKK hoods rolled in on tanks shooting missiles.

 

[TillLindemann]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

 

[mike]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

 

[Tiger5150]

The fear of terrorism is a trojan horse and I dont care for a second if some QAnon, Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon loving nutjob gets kicked off twitter or Parler for a stupid threat.

Where the real danger and risk is is in the examples I gave above, where a potential political party gets deplatformed or a scientific list of peer reviewed studies into a pharmaceutical gets deplatformed. That is real scary and dangerous stuff.

 

[Papacito]

'Big tech censorship' as an argument is flimsier than an Ikea coffee table.

Facebook and Twitter are publishers that can do what they want with their platforms. Anything that errs on legal hot water and risks their billion dollar plus investments gets blocked, simple.

If you don't like it, build your own.

 

[TillLindemann]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

A VPN is enough to let you pirate a movie anonymously, it won't let you assassinate politicians anonymously.

 

[TillLindemann]

If you don’t like it, build your own.

yeah, they did you see, and it got taken down - you may have heard.

 

[Tim Sheens]

I have virtually no doubt that Ilhan Omar, AOC and the others long targets of vitriol from the cult leader would have been killed

Getting into the realm of pre crime.

"if only those Muslims had got past police, they would have..."
"if only those environmentalists had... "
"If only those CFMEU members had..."

We are all Dick Cheney now

# Je Suis Dick Cheney

Okay, based on what you have seen and no doubt knowing that these type of people have been threatening the above mentioned, do you think their lives were at grave risk or not, yes or no?

Nope. I genuinely don't.

Whoever laid pipe bombs at the Republican and Democrat headquarters (NOT at the Capitol as is repeatedly made out) was a terrorist intending harm.

But the protest itself at the Capitol is the most hysterically over-hyped event in modern political history. Soon the myth will be told that thousands of people in KKK hoods rolled in on tanks shooting missiles.

That is a shame, as I will have trouble considering the strength of your opinions on other matters from this point.

 

[mike]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

A VPN is enough to let you pirate a movie anonymously, it won't let you assassinate politicians anonymously.

Clearly you are ignorant in the subject of cyber security, end of discussion.

 

[Tiger5150]

'Big tech censorship' as an argument is flimsier than an Ikea coffee table.

Facebook and Twitter ***are publishers*** that can do what they want with their platforms. Anything that errs on legal hot water and risks their billion dollar plus investments gets blocked, simple.

If you don't like it, build your own.

This is the problem. They are not publishers and they have screamed this repeatedly in Senate hearings. If they were publishers they would be liable for defamation/libel/slander.

They claim to be a platform but act as publishers. They cant have it both ways.

 

[TillLindemann]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

A VPN is enough to let you pirate a movie anonymously, it won't let you assassinate politicians anonymously.

Clearly you are ignorant in the subject of cyber security, end of discussion.

I might perhaps think the same of you, HOWEVER, I can tell from your profile picture that you're a really good bloke, and there's nothing to be gained from a petty squable 🙂

 

[mike]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

A VPN is enough to let you pirate a movie anonymously, it won't let you assassinate politicians anonymously.

Clearly you are ignorant in the subject of cyber security, end of discussion.

I might perhaps think the same of you, HOWEVER, I can tell from your profile picture that you're a really good bloke, and there's nothing to be gained from a petty squable 🙂

I was just trying to figure out if you knew what you were talking about or just full of it. I have my answer, no need for further discussion.

 

[TillLindemann]

It’s very easy to hide yourself behind a keyboard on the Internet

It is not easy, it is impossible. Did you pay any attention at all to Edward Snowden's leaks?

Scammers and the like get away with it because the NSA/CIA/MI5/ASIO etc are not tasked with chasing love rats and Nigerian scammers.

Even the dark web and Tor are not truly anonymous. If the threat is serious enough, you can be identified.

It’s easier than you think.

A VPN is enough to let you pirate a movie anonymously, it won't let you assassinate politicians anonymously.

Clearly you are ignorant in the subject of cyber security, end of discussion.

I might perhaps think the same of you, HOWEVER, I can tell from your profile picture that you're a really good bloke, and there's nothing to be gained from a petty squable 🙂

I was just trying to figure out if you knew what you were talking about or just full of it. I have my answer, no need for further discussion.

Which part suggested I don't know what I'm talking about? My claim that intelligence agencies can easily get around anonymising tools like VPNs?

 

[Papacito]

If you don’t like it, build your own.

yeah, they did you see, and it got taken down - you may have heard.

Not quite.

None of the tech companies want the legal risk of dealing with Parler.

If they did, they'd see their share price tank. Execs and shareholders would lose out massively. It's as simple as that.

 

[TillLindemann]

If you don’t like it, build your own.

yeah, they did you see, and it got taken down - you may have heard.

Not quite.

None of the tech companies want the legal risk of dealing with Parler.

If they did, they'd see their share price tank. Execs and shareholders would lose out massively. It's as simple as that.

So the reproach of 'build your own platform' is meaningless.

 

[Papacito]

'Big tech censorship' as an argument is flimsier than an Ikea coffee table.

Facebook and Twitter ***are publishers*** that can do what they want with their platforms. Anything that errs on legal hot water and risks their billion dollar plus investments gets blocked, simple.

If you don't like it, build your own.

This is the problem. They are not publishers and they have screamed this repeatedly in Senate hearings. If they were publishers they would be liable for defamation/libel/slander.

They claim to be a platform but act as publishers. They cant have it both ways.

I agree that for a long time there hasn't been a sufficient legal definition of what they are.

But at the end of the day, they're a company that can pick and choose what they do with data.

Funny how the right weren't complaining about them after the Cambridge Analytica scandal.......

 

[Harvey]

Is there anything to be gained out of attempting to impeach him again? By the time the process is started won't Biden be inaugurated? And can he be impeached posthumously (posthumously in the sense that he won't be president by the time it is confirmed.)

The government is basically in caretaker mode now until January 20th. The guy will probably go to ground given that he has no vehicle to rant on. He's had all the oxygen taken away, I don't think there is any genuine positives in removing him now other than abject humiliation which could cause more problems.

It would prevent him from running in 2024

Ah I see. Can he be posthumously impeached? Or does the process only have to be started while he is still incumbent?

From what I saw on ABC news last night it If the Congress votes to impeach Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon before the 20th of Jan the hearings can occur after he has left office.

OK so that's the rush on the vote, vote to impeach before he leaves office, and then do the hearings later, probably after the 100 days...

Yeah, give Biden his 1st 100 days in office without distraction and then hold the hearings. The Senate would need 2 3rds majority to convict though so even with the democrates controlling the senate its still a difficult course.

That is subject to legal debate. Conviction is required to remove someone from sitting office, however further sanctions (such as preventing him from running in 2024) only require a simple majority.

There is a suggestion that they could go to sanctions without the 2/3 majority required to remove him from office.

 

[TillLindemann]

Funny how the right weren’t complaining about them after the Cambridge Analytica scandal…

This is a great point, and it is critical.

On issues such as free expression and online privacy, very few people are able to transcend petty left v right squabbles.

People will accept terrible laws if they think they're targeted at the 'other team'.

In Australia, the examples I gave earlier of Scott Ludlam and Andrew Wilkie were rare exceptions.

 

[Papacito]

If you don’t like it, build your own.

yeah, they did you see, and it got taken down - you may have heard.

Not quite.

None of the tech companies want the legal risk of dealing with Parler.

If they did, they'd see their share price tank. Execs and shareholders would lose out massively. It's as simple as that.

So the reproach of 'build your own platform' is meaningless.

Not at all.

Getting booted off a host would have been their number one business risk from the get go.

The fact haven't raised enough capital to develop their own infrastructure tells you something about them.