Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[citizen_cub]

Turnbull and Rudd are hanging around their respective parties like bad smells. Turnbull is obviously discontent with the Coalition not backing a Carbon price/ETS and although he came out this week and said that he will support Coalition policy, deep down he is unhappy with the party's attitude towards the issue. Fair enough, but to come out and publicly express this is damaging for his party.

Then you have Rudd who has been given the role of Foreign Minister but can't stand Gillard or any other front-benchers for that matter. You only have to observe his behaviours during press conferences or walking into parliament with fellow front-benchers to see that his dialogue with fellow party members is limited. The reason why he took the role was most likely to travel the world (free of charge) and have as little to do with party members as possible and I think he has done that. If I'm a Labor person (which I'm not) I'd be very concerned about having a person like Rudd on the front bench because I'd fear he would condemn the PM eventually or retire from politics which would mean a bi-election which would mean an election.

 

[hammertime]

Interesting development.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wireless-challenge-to-future-proof-nbn/story-fn59niix-1226104623595

I think things like this at least give credence to reducing the NBN to FTTN and taking an incremental, more cautious approach. If we create FTTN, homes will then have a choice and we won't waste money unnecessarily.

If Fibre is indeed future-proof, and we come up with productive uses for it, then we simply run a 2nd national project to connect the Node to the Home.

All the while, users that need or want the connection, can pay for fiber connection from Node to Home.

Surely that's a much more sound approach?

 

[hammertime]

I'd rank Turnbull highly assuming he could balance is obvious business skills with a decent social agenda.
Costello was vastly over-rated as treasurer. He had a river of gold and wasted it on meaningless tax cuts when he should have spent it on infrastructure.
Swan is under-rated. I know you dislike the guy but his performance in the GFC was world class. And it's easy to look down your nose (I mean in general not necessarily you) at a public admin degree (it's an honours degree FWIW), but a grounding in public administration is (IMO) better qualifications than a law degree.

At the end of the day, despite our back-and-forth, we're fortunate in this country that the level of financial management is, compared to the rest of the world, pretty damn good. From Keating through to Swan (I include Costello and Howard as PM in that) there have been some very good work done. In general I think both sides share a similar macro outlook, they just differ on how things are done and what is prioritised. The only thing that disappoints me is the lack of spending on infrastructure and both parties are not blameless although I think the ALP does better.

Well I agree that we are a lucky country with the balance that we have in the political sphere. Both parties are relatively conservative.

But I dunno, I disagree on some points mate. I don't think Swans performance on the GFC was great. I think the balance of the cash injection to long term project spending was spot-on, which the economists agree with. But I think the policy was poorly constructed. There was some bad waste and the policy could have been directed towards more productive outcomes. From a lot of money spent, I don't think we will see many future benefits. I honestly don't think the bloke is a smart guy and I can't rate Swan's qualifications over Costello's.

With costello spending on infrastructure. When unemployment is at all time lows, you don't build. You save it (pay down debt/future fund) and increase the economies productive capacity (tax cuts). You save major government projects for rainy days. Like the Harbor bridge during the depression. Otherwise all you do is drive wage inflation and take workers from the private sector.

 

[Chris]

So the government's solution to the illegal boat people problem has been kiboshed in the High Court. Is there anything this government can get right?

 

[happy_tiger]

So the government's solution to the illegal boat people problem has been kiboshed in the High Court. Is there anything this government can get right?

The biggest question Chris will be is whether the government will still take the 4000 refugees from Malaysia even though the High Court ruled against the Malaysian solution

And where is the back up plan now
Nehru and PNG has probably also been ruled out due to this High Court decision ruling
Interesting times ahead
Oh , and to all the people who voted for this government THANKS :brick:

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

I find this comment contradictory:

When unemployment is at all time lows, you don't build. You save it (pay down debt/future fund) and increase the economies productive capacity (tax cuts).

You pay down debt by providing tax cuts? What you are saying is removing the effects of the budget's automatic stabilisers - this was the main fiscal error made by the Howard government.

Also, I can only vaguely see the connection between tax cuts and productivity. An efficient tax system leads to our economy being more internationally competitive which I guess can flow through to productivity improvements. In saying that, the connection is indirect and may not always hold.

You save major government projects for rainy days. Like the Harbor bridge during the depression. Otherwise all you do is drive wage inflation and take workers from the private sector.

So what happens when you have prolonged periods of low unemployment? You do not invest in infrastructure? That will be the surest method to creating bottle necks in the economy and subsequent inflation effects. Infrastructure and training are the primary sources of increasing the economy's productive capacity. They must continue over time.

 

[system]

Anyone but Abbott and I vote for the coalition.

Blame the idiots who booted Turnbull for a pathetic God bothering spastic

 

[Chris]

So the government's solution to the illegal boat people problem has been kiboshed in the High Court. Is there anything this government can get right?

The biggest question Chris will be is whether the government will still take the 4000 refugees from Malaysia even though the High Court ruled against the Malaysian solution

And where is the back up plan now
Nehru and PNG has probably also been ruled out due to this High Court decision ruling
Interesting times ahead
Oh , and to all the people who voted for this government THANKS :brick:

We have to take the refugees from Malaysia as we signed an agreement with them. So we take 4000 of them and they take nothing from us. The Government has to go back to John Howard's origianl Nairu plan or Julia Gillard and Chris Bowen must resign TODAY!

 

[happy_tiger]

So the government's solution to the illegal boat people problem has been kiboshed in the High Court. Is there anything this government can get right?

The biggest question Chris will be is whether the government will still take the 4000 refugees from Malaysia even though the High Court ruled against the Malaysian solution

And where is the back up plan now
Nehru and PNG has probably also been ruled out due to this High Court decision ruling
Interesting times ahead
Oh , and to all the people who voted for this government THANKS :brick:

We have to take the refugees from Malaysia as we signed an agreement with them. So we take 4000 of them and they take nothing from us. The Government has to go back to John Howard's origianl Nairu plan or Julia Gillard and Chris Bowen must resign TODAY!

Thats the problem though Chris with the High Court ruling any off shore solutions are now in jeopardy .
It has opened a very big can of worms and we have arguably the worst federal government in our history to try and fix it

 

[Chris]

Every single one of Julia Gillard's policies have been nothing short of being a disaster. Pink batts, NBN, School Improvements (I can't remember what that policy was called) illegal boat people and the Carbon Tax then add in the Craig Thompson issues and you can now say that this government is simply pathetic. There's nothing they can do now to save them. People like Rob Oakshott or Tony Windsor have to pull the pin on her and try and make it look like they're saving us from the Labor government. Coming out looking like heroes is their only chance of being re-elected.

 

[Chris]

So the government's solution to the illegal boat people problem has been kiboshed in the High Court. Is there anything this government can get right?

The biggest question Chris will be is whether the government will still take the 4000 refugees from Malaysia even though the High Court ruled against the Malaysian solution

And where is the back up plan now
Nehru and PNG has probably also been ruled out due to this High Court decision ruling
Interesting times ahead
Oh , and to all the people who voted for this government THANKS :brick:

We have to take the refugees from Malaysia as we signed an agreement with them. So we take 4000 of them and they take nothing from us. The Government has to go back to John Howard's origianl Nairu plan or Julia Gillard and Chris Bowen must resign TODAY!

Thats the problem though Chris with the High Court ruling any off shore solutions are now in jeopardy .
It has opened a very big can of worms and we have arguably the worst federal government in our history to try and fix it

The way John Howard got around the High Court was he intercepted the boats before they hit the main land and sent them off to Nairu. This government lets the boat people hit the mainland, thus allowing them access to our legal system. Diverting them to Nairu leaves them to deal with their legal system, if they have one.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Anyone but Abbott and I vote for the coalition.

Blame the idiots who booted Turnbull for a pathetic God bothering spastic

Amen brother… Although Gillard (particularly of late,) and Rob Oakeshott are both making a late charge in challenging Abbott for the dubious mantle of "biggest spastic in Australian politics."

If Turnbull took the Libs to the last election, Labor would have been routed.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Every single one of Julia Gillard's policies have been nothing short of being a disaster. Pink batts, NBN, School Improvements (I can't remember what that policy was called) illegal boat people and the Carbon Tax then add in the Craig Thompson issues and you can now say that this government is simply pathetic.

Seriously, this is complete garbage. Are you really Piers Akerman?

With regard to Pink batts and school improvements, total complaints were about 1%. Does not sound like a disaster to me. Local schools in my area are thankful the government improved their facilities. Students are now able to learn in air conditioned comfort and not sitting in a demountable building in 30 degree heat.

The NBN will have a dramatic effect on this country. You won't see it now, but in 20 years time, there will be a reduction in stress on infrastructure and regional centres will grow.

 

[Chris]

Four deaths during the Pink Batts scheme and contractors over inflating their prices by hundreds of thousands for work being done at schools paid for by the federal government are not disasters? As for the NBN, we're spending $43 billion to worry about what happens in 20 years time? In 2031 there's going to be something a lot better than broadband to run the internet than what we have in 2011\. Do you not think that we could spend $43 billion on something better than that?

 

[system]

If Turnbull took the Libs to the last election, Labor would have been routed.

Bang on the money. Even the Coalitions exit poll data spelt this out overwhelmingly.

Abbott remains because he brings the Hillsong dollars to the Liberal Party coffers and no other reason

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Four deaths during the Pink Batts scheme and contractors over inflating their prices by hundreds of thousands for work being done at schools paid for by the federal government are not disasters? As for the NBN, we're spending $43 billion to worry about what happens in 20 years time? In 2031 there's going to be something a lot better than broadband to run the internet than what we have in 2011\. Do you not think that we could spend $43 billion on something better than that?

Four deaths - yes, they are a tragedy, but you can't call the overall policy a disaster. Energy efficiencies of homes have been improved.

Some inflation in prices of work completed for schools to improve learning facilities for school children? That is not a disaster. A disaster would be to allow school children to continue to learn in facilities built over 30 years ago.

Classic short term view on the NBN. Let me guess, come 2031 when the cost will probably by $60b, your argument will be to wait another 20 years for better technology?

 

[Chris]

Seems like our opinions will beg to differ till the end of time my friend :wink:

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Four deaths during the Pink Batts scheme and contractors over inflating their prices by hundreds of thousands for work being done at schools paid for by the federal government are not disasters? As for the NBN, we're spending $43 billion to worry about what happens in 20 years time? In 2031 there's going to be something a lot better than broadband to run the internet than what we have in 2011\. Do you not think that we could spend $43 billion on something better than that?

Four deaths - yes, they are a tragedy, but you can't call the overall policy a disaster. Energy efficiencies of homes have been improved.

Some inflation in prices of work completed for schools to improve learning facilities for school children? That is not a disaster. A disaster would be to allow school children to continue to learn in facilities built over 30 years ago.

Classic short term view on the NBN. Let me guess, come 2031 when the cost will probably by $60b, your argument will be to wait another 20 years for better technology?

I have to disagree on the pink batts Gary. There weren't only the deaths of the installers, but rorting of the system by dodgy "installers," inflation of installation costs and subsequent losses of homes in fires that have been attributed to poor installation. The criticism doesn't lay with the idea, but the execution of it.

And for all the energy efficiencies in the world, it wasn't worth the deaths of four men.

The only major issue I have with the BER scheme was the inflation of project costs which only lined the pockets of builders, of which weren't even subject to a defects check.

 

[system]

Neither party has a grasp on proper infrastructure spending.

This problem is due to having to deal with an utterly reactionary electorate who will never look to the long term.

Politics is now a media game entirely based on instant gratification for the electorate.

Until this ceases than we will continue to get the government we deserve

 

[Yossarian]

We have to take the refugees from Malaysia as we signed an agreement with them. So we take 4000 of them and they take nothing from us. The Government has to go back to John Howard's origianl Nairu plan or Julia Gillard and Chris Bowen must resign TODAY!

Thats the problem though Chris with the High Court ruling any off shore solutions are now in jeopardy .
It has opened a very big can of worms and we have arguably the worst federal government in our history to try and fix it

The way John Howard got around the High Court was he intercepted the boats before they hit the main land and sent them off to Nairu. This government lets the boat people hit the mainland, thus allowing them access to our legal system. Diverting them to Nairu leaves them to deal with their legal system, if they have one.

Christmas Island is hardly the mainland… In any event the people who ended up in the Pacific Solution were still in Australian waters and in some cases were taken from Australian land. And as I recall the courts found they were still entitled to the same rights under Australian law as those in Australian detention centres.

In any case, the Nauru option is one of the all time great pieces of garbage presented as policy. If you're an Afghani fleeing poverty/war etc, do you really care if you spend 2 years in Nauru or 2 years in Port Headland? Of course you don't. You can say the same thing about Manus Island. The people coming on boats only care about the final outcome and close to 100% of the people from the Tampa were found to be refugees and were settled as such. The Malaysian option, although possibly immoral and apparently illegal, at least had a legitimate policy outcome.

The irregular martime arrival debate is a very sad indictment on Australian politics. The overwhelming triumph of political gesturing over decent policy with reasonably developed expected outcomes is a disgrace.