Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

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InBenjiWeTrust

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The issue for neo Marxists is they label everything they don’t like as hard right and they don’t stop there, they want it cancelled, poor sjws😢
Even worse they don’t know history of the “left” e.g. Mussolini was communist and after that “socialist, anti imperialist”, Nazi stands for NationalSocialistiche Arbeit Partei, Molotov signed ”anti imperialists” pact with Ribbentrop, Germany’s weapons factories were in the ex USSR, the USSR occupied a part of Poland, Baltic republics, and Finland, etc.
So those ignorants don’t understand, when they say Nazis they refer to the large part of the ”left”,which is nowadays reincarnated as “Antifa”, and they are present in a significant number in “Wagner group”!
 

Yossarian

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The issue for neo Marxists is they label everything they don’t like as hard right and they don’t stop there, they want it cancelled, poor sjws😢
Even worse they don’t know history of the “left” e.g. Mussolini was communist and after that “socialist, anti imperialist”, Nazi stands for NationalSocialistiche Arbeit Partei, Molotov signed ”anti imperialists” pact with Ribbentrop, Germany’s weapons factories were in the ex USSR, the USSR occupied a part of Poland, Baltic republics, and Finland, etc.
So those ignorants don’t understand, when they say Nazis they refer to the large part of the ”left”,which is nowadays reincarnated as “Antifa”, and they are present in a significant number in “Wagner group”!
Suggesting that the Nazis are a party of the left on the basis of their name is a bizarre attempt to rewrite history. It would be like regarding the Soviet Communists are right-wing because they behaved in certain ways. Clearly there is merit in the notion that far left and far right parties share similar traits but come on now, the party Adolf Hitler led was an extreme right part. There would be few credentialled political observers who would say otherwise.

Also bizarrely you start off complaining about the "left" labelling things they collectively dislike as X or Y and then you make the same error. Sadly for this forum moderation (from a political perspective) seems in short supply. I appreciate the efforts of several people who hold divergent opinions from me in engaging in rational discussion of important matters. Sadly there are others, i am speaking generally here, who delight in making bizarre, often demonstrably false or to be proactive. The idea, for example, that the Ukrainian government is full of "Nazis" and that Putin is doing Ukraine a favour by illegally invading is ridiculous.

Anyway I'm happy to rationally discuss the above.
 

Winston Churchill

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Suggesting that the Nazis are a party of the left on the basis of their name is a bizarre attempt to rewrite history. It would be like regarding the Soviet Communists are right-wing because they behaved in certain ways. Clearly there is merit in the notion that far left and far right parties share similar traits but come on now, the party Adolf Hitler led was an extreme right part. There would be few credentialled political observers who would say otherwise.

Also bizarrely you start off complaining about the "left" labelling things they collectively dislike as X or Y and then you make the same error. Sadly for this forum moderation (from a political perspective) seems in short supply. I appreciate the efforts of several people who hold divergent opinions from me in engaging in rational discussion of important matters. Sadly there are others, i am speaking generally here, who delight in making bizarre, often demonstrably false or to be proactive. The idea, for example, that the Ukrainian government is full of "Nazis" and that Putin is doing Ukraine a favour by illegally invading is ridiculous.

Anyway I'm happy to rationally discuss the above.
Yoss has brought up the perfect point. Its exactly like how ANTIFA stands for anti-fascists' when of course we all know they are the complete opposite. Names don't mean anything in political groups. North Korea, officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Doesn't seem very democratic. Just like being a Liberal in the US now means to be completely intolerant of anything that's not ultra far left.
 

Winston Churchill

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If youre a lefty look away, dont want you getting triggered.

msn link -

The radical lefts number 1 'news' anchor on ultra far left propaganda Rachel Maddow being sued for defamation for pushing lies. Judge rules the suit to proceed.

MSNBCs defense in the matter "we don't report facts" :ROFLMAO: Its as if anyone with the ability to tie up a shoe lace thought otherwise.

Hopefully this opens the door for a flood of defamation suits to come on how dishonest the lefty media has been for the last 6 years. A few more Nicholas Sandman $200 mill settlements and these companies cant survive. Maybe Elon can buy a few and turn them into news channels.

🤡 world
 

Tucker

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If youre a lefty look away, dont want you getting triggered.

msn link -

The radical lefts number 1 'news' anchor on ultra far left propaganda Rachel Maddow being sued for defamation for pushing lies. Judge rules the suit to proceed.

MSNBCs defense in the matter "we don't report facts" :ROFLMAO: Its as if anyone with the ability to tie up a shoe lace thought otherwise.

Hopefully this opens the door for a flood of defamation suits to come on how dishonest the lefty media has been for the last 6 years. A few more Nicholas Sandman $200 mill settlements and these companies cant survive. Maybe Elon can buy a few and turn them into news channels.

🤡 world
Those American 'news' networks who keep putting their feet in their mouths, reporting unsubstantiated lies as fact are going the way of the dinosaurs.
Jussie Smollett lies
Nicholas Sandman lies
Kyle Rittenhouse lies
The NASCAR Noose lies
The Club Q Shooting lies

All reported with biased narrative slamming the right as the perpetrators without a shred of evidence and ultimately having to present humiliating apologies and face lawsuits. How these people stay employed is beyond comprehension, yet they turn up, day after day reporting new allegations without merit, further poisoning the minds of America's - and the world's youth.
If this woke garbage doesnt go away soon, America will eat itself as both sides of the divide HATE each other.
 

Winston Churchill

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Those American 'news' networks who keep putting their feet in their mouths, reporting unsubstantiated lies as fact are going the way of the dinosaurs.
Jussie Smollett lies
Nicholas Sandman lies
Kyle Rittenhouse lies
The NASCAR Noose lies
The Club Q Shooting lies

All reported with biased narrative slamming the right as the perpetrators without a shred of evidence and ultimately having to present humiliating apologies and face lawsuits. How these people stay employed is beyond comprehension, yet they turn up, day after day reporting new allegations without merit, further poisoning the minds of America's - and the world's youth.
If this woke garbage doesnt go away soon, America will eat itself as both sides of the divide HATE each other.
You could add another 100 examples.

The fact that anybody can watch or read anything that comes out of these now proven time and time again propaganda machines is beyond belief. There's no excuse for willful ignorance and why people on the right get very short and have no time for lefties that pretend they have no idea about all these scandals that their side has peddled the last decade. Obviously their ratings have nose dived since being exposed over the years as the lefty activists they are and they are more known now as clown networks, its still astounding how they can even have 1 viewer....well, 1 honest viewer.
 

InBenjiWeTrust

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Suggesting that the Nazis are a party of the left on the basis of their name is a bizarre attempt to rewrite history. It would be like regarding the Soviet Communists are right-wing because they behaved in certain ways.
OK, regarding my claims
1) Fact: Hitler and Stalin via Ribbentrop/ Molotov pact signed an "anti-imperialist" pact.
2) Fact: Lenin/Stalin agreed with Germany to transfer their weapons factories to the USSR, mostly to Ukraine. Note: at that time Germany was still under agreement to have a limited weapon factories on its territory.
3) Fact: One can check documentaries from that era (BTW, it was on the SBS a few years ago) the flags Nazi's supporters waived at their rellies had swastika painted over the original, bleached hammer and sickle.
4) Fact: Hitler asked and Stalin through the NKVD (later KGB) delivered the list of members of German's communist's party, which were then either sent to the KonzentrationLager or eliminated.
5) Fact: Most of the "free world" accepted that the attack on Poland in 1939, was the start of 2nd world war. Not Stalin (USSR politburo, USSR), as they fallowed their agreement with Hitler, and attacked Poland from the East, and occupied the territory agreed by the Pact.
6) At the same time the USSR attacked and occupied Baltic Republics and Finland.
As an illustrative anecdote, some members of the ALP followed Stalin's (Kominterna's (3rd International Communists Organisation) directive to their members around the world to obstruct the "imperialists war" efforts everywhere. One can look through the records of that time and find that a number of the ALP's members followed, and damaged the cargo/shipment to the Allies.:mad:
So at that time, Hitler and Stalin were to the rest of the world ("the imperialists' " France, UK, Australia, USA etc.) the common enemies!
And certainly France, UK, Australia and USA (the free world) until 1941 were not on their side.:)
So, claiming Hitler and Stalin were not at that time, on the same side, is going against facts.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck ..
Hitler ended that agreement in 1941 when he attacked the USSR, and presto "Kominterna" changed its message and proclaimed the USSR as "a victim of Nazism", the fact always rejected by countries occupied during period between 1939 and 1941: Poland, Baltic Republics and Finland!
Note that Finland's territory occupied by Stalin is still not retuned!
The same was true for Poland, and Baltic Republics until Gorbachev's Perestroika in 1990s.


 

Tucker

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OK, regarding my claims
1) Fact: Hitler and Stalin via Ribbentrop/ Molotov pact signed an "anti-imperialist" pact.
2) Fact: Lenin/Stalin agreed with Germany to transfer their weapons factories to the USSR, mostly to Ukraine. Note: at that time Germany was still under agreement to have a limited weapon factories on its territory.
3) Fact: One can check documentaries from that era (BTW, it was on the SBS a few years ago) the flags Nazi's supporters waived at their rellies had swastika painted over the original, bleached hammer and sickle.
4) Fact: Hitler asked and Stalin through the NKVD (later KGB) delivered the list of members of German's communist's party, which were then either sent to the KonzentrationLager or eliminated.
5) Fact: Most of the "free world" accepted that the attack on Poland in 1939, was the start of 2nd world war. Not Stalin (USSR politburo, USSR), as they fallowed their agreement with Hitler, and attacked Poland from the East, and occupied the territory agreed by the Pact.
6) At the same time the USSR attacked and occupied Baltic Republics and Finland.
As an illustrative anecdote, some members of the ALP followed Stalin's (Kominterna's (3rd International Communists Organisation) directive to their members around the world to obstruct the "imperialists war" efforts everywhere. One can look through the records of that time and find that a number of the ALP's members followed, and damaged the cargo/shipment to the Allies.:mad:
So at that time, Hitler and Stalin were to the rest of the world ("the imperialists' " France, UK, Australia, USA etc.) the common enemies!
And certainly France, UK, Australia and USA (the free world) until 1941 were not on their side.:)
So, claiming Hitler and Stalin were not at that time, on the same side, is going against facts.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck ..
Hitler ended that agreement in 1941 when he attacked the USSR, and presto "Kominterna" changed its message and proclaimed the USSR as "a victim of Nazism", the fact always rejected by countries occupied during period between 1939 and 1941: Poland, Baltic Republics and Finland!
Note that Finland's territory occupied by Stalin is still not retuned!
The same was true for Poland, and Baltic Republics until Gorbachev's Perestroika in 1990s.
Well done, however there is no space for factual offerings in this thread mate.
 

Yossarian

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OK, regarding my claims
1) Fact: Hitler and Stalin via Ribbentrop/ Molotov pact signed an "anti-imperialist" pact.
2) Fact: Lenin/Stalin agreed with Germany to transfer their weapons factories to the USSR, mostly to Ukraine. Note: at that time Germany was still under agreement to have a limited weapon factories on its territory.
3) Fact: One can check documentaries from that era (BTW, it was on the SBS a few years ago) the flags Nazi's supporters waived at their rellies had swastika painted over the original, bleached hammer and sickle.
4) Fact: Hitler asked and Stalin through the NKVD (later KGB) delivered the list of members of German's communist's party, which were then either sent to the KonzentrationLager or eliminated.
5) Fact: Most of the "free world" accepted that the attack on Poland in 1939, was the start of 2nd world war. Not Stalin (USSR politburo, USSR), as they fallowed their agreement with Hitler, and attacked Poland from the East, and occupied the territory agreed by the Pact.
6) At the same time the USSR attacked and occupied Baltic Republics and Finland.
As an illustrative anecdote, some members of the ALP followed Stalin's (Kominterna's (3rd International Communists Organisation) directive to their members around the world to obstruct the "imperialists war" efforts everywhere. One can look through the records of that time and find that a number of the ALP's members followed, and damaged the cargo/shipment to the Allies.:mad:
So at that time, Hitler and Stalin were to the rest of the world ("the imperialists' " France, UK, Australia, USA etc.) the common enemies!
And certainly France, UK, Australia and USA (the free world) until 1941 were not on their side.:)
So, claiming Hitler and Stalin were not at that time, on the same side, is going against facts.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck ..
Hitler ended that agreement in 1941 when he attacked the USSR, and presto "Kominterna" changed its message and proclaimed the USSR as "a victim of Nazism", the fact always rejected by countries occupied during period between 1939 and 1941: Poland, Baltic Republics and Finland!
Note that Finland's territory occupied by Stalin is still not retuned!
The same was true for Poland, and Baltic Republics until Gorbachev's Perestroika in 1990s.
You can list all the out of context things you want but it won't make the NSDAP a left wing party. To rattle quickly through your "facts"

1. So what? You may recall Germany subsequently invaded the USSR.

2. See point 1.

3. It's well established that the NSDAP and Communists were bitter rivals even before 1933. Street fights etc. The suggestion that the Nazis were reconstituted Communists is absurd.

4. See point 1. I'm not sure if that's true but even if it was, so what? A worried leader giving up Communists to a leader of a country he was afraid of militarily? It says more about Stalin's willingness to give up his so-called allies.

5. Again, see point 1. That the USSR and Germany were prepared to partition Poland is meaningless in the context of your initial claim particularly given they went to war two years later.

6. Your confusing mutual interests with shared political outlook. Nixon went to China. Doesn't make him a Communist. I don't know what your point on the alleged communist links
 

Tucker

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You can list all the out of context things you want but it won't make the NSDAP a left wing party. To rattle quickly through your "facts"

1. So what? You may recall Germany subsequently invaded the USSR.

2. See point 1.

3. It's well established that the NSDAP and Communists were bitter rivals even before 1933. Street fights etc. The suggestion that the Nazis were reconstituted Communists is absurd.

4. See point 1. I'm not sure if that's true but even if it was, so what? A worried leader giving up Communists to a leader of a country he was afraid of militarily? It says more about Stalin's willingness to give up his so-called allies.

5. Again, see point 1. That the USSR and Germany were prepared to partition Poland is meaningless in the context of your initial claim particularly given they went to war two years later.

6. Your confusing mutual interests with shared political outlook. Nixon went to China. Doesn't make him a Communist. I don't know what your point on the alleged communist links
@InBenjiWeTrust did it a lot better with far more conviction. Nice attempt though....
 

InBenjiWeTrust

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You can list all the out of context things you want but it won't make the NSDAP a left wing party. To rattle quickly through your "facts"

1. So what? You may recall Germany subsequently invaded the USSR.

2. See point 1.

3. It's well established that the NSDAP and Communists were bitter rivals even before 1933. Street fights etc. The suggestion that the Nazis were reconstituted Communists is absurd.

4. See point 1. I'm not sure if that's true but even if it was, so what? A worried leader giving up Communists to a leader of a country he was afraid of militarily? It says more about Stalin's willingness to give up his so-called allies.

5. Again, see point 1. That the USSR and Germany were prepared to partition Poland is meaningless in the context of your initial claim particularly given they went to war two years later.

6. Your confusing mutual interests with shared political outlook. Nixon went to China. Doesn't make him a Communist. I don't know what your point on the alleged communist links
For someone who claims, "I want rational discussion", you scored an auto goal. Evidence, you ask? You did not read my post, or otherwise, you would not have come up with your point 1.
So you claim that you want "rational discussion" and did not bother to read my post and just jumped with a first thought you have?
So please, can you describe your definition of a "rational discussion" so we know that includes ignoring the post you reply to?
 

Tim Sheens

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More stuff getting done for the nation today, with Albanese proving to be a good PM thus far, even warming to the despatch box.

Quite an impressive half year of government for both diplomatic and legislative accomplishments, and if Michaelia Cash would just shut up, a lot more would get done. Hasn't she got some media to tip off about a raid, or at least something more constructive than obstruction or screeching like a cockatoo.
 

Yossarian

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For someone who claims, "I want rational discussion", you scored an auto goal. Evidence, you ask? You did not read my post, or otherwise, you would not have come up with your point 1.
So you claim that you want "rational discussion" and did not bother to read my post and just jumped with a first thought you have?
So please, can you describe your definition of a "rational discussion" so we know that includes ignoring the post you reply to?

Rational as in having a rational argument for a defendable perspective. Pretty simple. I don’t think I was rude or belligerent. I’m making the point that your evidence mostly seems to concern cooperation that occurred between the USSR and Germany before 1941 but ignores the reasons for that cooperation or the lengthy, brutal war they fought. I read what you wrote but the suggestion that the Soviet Communists and the NSDAP are ideological partners is just not supportable. Obviously we’re talking about two dictators who are expansionist in their outlook. But Hitler despised communists. Hated them. And even Stalin ran a planned economy with entirely centralised public ownership.

If your main point is the Molotov-Ribbentrop Agreement being evidence of some sort of mutual political understanding or friendship, pointing out that they went to war not long after is a reasonable counterpoint surely?
 

Winston Churchill

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For someone who claims, "I want rational discussion", you scored an auto goal. Evidence, you ask? You did not read my post, or otherwise, you would not have come up with your point 1.
So you claim that you want "rational discussion" and did not bother to read my post and just jumped with a first thought you have?
So please, can you describe your definition of a "rational discussion" so we know that includes ignoring the post you reply to?
Ahh yes, Yoss the guy thats always after an honest discussion, what is that saying about lefties and honesty?
 
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