Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Yossarian]

The reality is both your and in @InBenjiWeTrust posts re this topic are accurate at different times during the development and subsequent democratically elected ascent to power of the NAZI party.

And as for murdering minorities, weakening unions and working with private industrialists the same is true for far left regimes.

Well yes this is true. As Earl points out and I did earlier, there's a case to made that the extreme left and right share similarities at least in the way they operate.

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

Okay your argument is shifting here. If you're saying that the NDSAP was a socialist party before Hitler joined, maybe. We're talking very low numbers so personalities mattered. But as your source notes, as Hitler started to dominate the party it became decreasingly less socialist and by the time they take power they're certainly not a socialist party. None of this supports the idea Hitler was a leftist.

Mussolini is a different story. He certainly was or claimed to be a socialist when he started. He was also a winds of change kind of guy. Reagan was a big lefty when he started. People change as their beliefs are influenced by their experiences and observations.

This "real" v "cooked" thing does you no favours.

My argument does not shift, it is the left's perception "Hitler was the bad person, we will not claim that he was on the left" that rewrites the history so Mussolini and Hitler were never on the left!
You stated that Hitler was never a "socialist", I presented the facts that he joined Drexler's DAP as soon as it was founded, and remained a member of the NDSAP. If you do not agree with that, we agree to disagree

 

[earl]

Trump wants smaller govt Earl...look up NESARA law that he and the military are implementing in the background...
National Economic Security and Reformation Act...

Not really. He wants to be the supreme leader accountable to no one.

Mate - you can't support that guy rationally. You just can't. We know what he is now.

You can't also give me some tiny little piece of information and expect that to explain everything. So does that explain why Trump tried to extort Zelensky to investigated Hunter Biden (I think it was Hunter Biden) ? Does that explain Trump trying to overturn the elections ?

No one who believes in democracy and people's rights would act the way Trump has acted.

This leaves you and anyone supporting Trump in a very difficult position. It means you support autocratic governments. That is the domain of Hitler, Putin, Pol Pot, Mussolini etc.

Are these the people who you support ?

 

[earl]

W

Ridiculous post.

And as for cancel culture I am sure you have advocated on this forum "cancelling " certain views on different topics. Someone else may find one of your posts proving my point so it's rather strange to pretend cancel culture does not exist.

It is ridiculous to utilize facts and rational discussions.

You should cancel me since cancel culture is so big for you. I just went grocery shopping. It was really bad. All these people being told they were cancelled. It's everywhere.

Have you been cancelled as well ?

It's a tragedy in modern society.

 

[earl]

My argument does not shift, it is the left's perception "Hitler was the bad person, we will not claim that he was on the left" that rewrites the history so Mussolini and Hitler were never on the left!
You stated that Hitler was never a "socialist", I presented the facts that he joined Drexler's DAP as soon as it was founded, and remained a member of the NDSAP. If you do not agree with that, we agree to disagree

Just to be very clear. Pol Pot was a communist and that is the left. I think the vast majority of people consider the Nazi's to be right wing.

You are the one claiming Hitler was on the left when the vast majority of people consider him right wing.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

It is ridiculous to utilize facts and rational discussions.

Do I not do the same

You should cancel me since cancel culture is so big for you. I just went grocery shopping. It was really bad. All these people being told they were cancelled. It's everywhere.

Who said it's everywhere. But it's not a myth.

Have you been cancelled as well ?

Lol. Plenty of people try to cancel me on this forum and likewise others especially those coming for the Magpies side of the JV

It's a tragedy in modern society.

Be serious.

 

[earl]

Be serious.

When you start arguing in good faith them you'll get good faith comments in response.

 

[Yossarian]

My argument does not shift, it is the left's perception "Hitler was the bad person, we will not claim that he was on the left" that rewrites the history so Mussolini and Hitler were never on the left!
You stated that Hitler was never a "socialist", I presented the facts that he joined Drexler's DAP as soon as it was founded, and remained a member of the NDSAP. If you do not agree with that, we agree to disagree

No I think that's incorrect. Hitler is a bad person fullstop. There are plenty of awful people who are "of the left". We've mentioned several of them - Pol Pot, Stalin, Ceausescu etc. Even more benign people like Khruschev are fairly abhorrent to me.

You're making an incorrect causality judgement. That Hitler must have been a socialist because he joined a small party that was nominally socialist. This is not a reasonable step. Hitler didn't join because he himself was communist, he saw an opportunity to take over an established party and took it. I don't think he ever had socialist beliefs.

 

[Yossarian]

My argument does not shift, it is the left's perception "Hitler was the bad person, we will not claim that he was on the left" that rewrites the history so Mussolini and Hitler were never on the left!
You stated that Hitler was never a "socialist", I presented the facts that he joined Drexler's DAP as soon as it was founded, and remained a member of the NDSAP. If you do not agree with that, we agree to disagree

I do appreciate the respectful tone in these discussions though.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Well yes this is true. As Earl points out and I did earlier, there's a case to made that the extreme left and right share similarities at least in the way they operate.

I suppose in the end the extreme right was a reaction to far left socialism and communism so it appropriated aspects from the far left.

 

[earl]

hat Hitler must have been a socialist because he joined a small party that was nominally socialist. This is not a reasonable step. Hitler didn't join because he himself was communist, he saw an opportunity to take over an established party and took it. I don't think he ever had socialist beliefs.

Exactly. People like Trump and Hitler and whoever are only after power. That is what they live for. They don't have beliefs or integrity like most people.

The way people defend these people astounds me. What is the pay off ? I don't get it.

 

[Yossarian]

I suppose in the end the extreme right was a reaction to far left socialism and communism so it appropriated aspects from the far left.

I think the grasping for total power and control leads to similar ways of behaviour - suppression of opposition, censorship etc.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

When you start arguing in good faith them you'll get good faith comments in response.

Always do.

Can't say the same for some on here.

 

[earl]

I think the grasping for total power and control leads to similar ways of behaviour - suppression of opposition, censorship etc.

Exactly.

 

[earl]

Always do.

Can't say the same for some on here.

You didn't in that post that I responded too. Don't be a hypocrite.

 

[Yossarian]

Exactly. People like Trump and Hitler and whoever are only after power. That is what they live for. They don't have beliefs or integrity like most people.

The way people defend these people astounds me. What is the pay off ? I don't get it.

Trump I find a strange and interesting man. I've heard him make reasonable, intelligent points. I think he's a smart, capable man. Sadly I think his ego and need to succeed absolutely swamps those positives. The juvenile insults of anyone who opposes him, the playing of the man, the denial of any setback or opposing view. He had a chance to gracefully accept 2020 as a loss but chose not to.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

You didn't in that post that I responded too. Don't be a hypocrite.

Not true.

Your bias.

 

[earl]

Trump I find a strange and interesting man. I've heard him make reasonable, intelligent points. I think he's a smart, capable man. Sadly I think his ego and need to succeed absolutely swamps those positives. The juvenile insults of anyone who opposes him, the playing of the man, the denial of any setback or opposing view. He had a chance to gracefully accept 2020 as a loss but chose not to.

There is something off about him isn't there. You call it ego and maybe that is the right word. I don't know what the issue is but there is just something wrong about him.

I used to and I can still find some of his comments comedy gold but it seems that lately it's more laughing at him rather than against him.

 

[TrueTiger]

Not really. He wants to be the supreme leader accountable to no one.

Mate - you can't support that guy rationally. You just can't. We know what he is now.

You can't also give me some tiny little piece of information and expect that to explain everything. So does that explain why Trump tried to extort Zelensky to investigated Hunter Biden (I think it was Hunter Biden) ? Does that explain Trump trying to overturn the elections ?

No one who believes in democracy and people's rights would act the way Trump has acted.

This leaves you and anyone supporting Trump in a very difficult position. It means you support autocratic governments. That is the domain of Hitler, Putin, Pol Pot, Mussolini etc.

Are these the people who you support ?

This is my opinion Earl....Zelensky is a corrupt puppet placed in charge of the Ukraine by Obama and financed by Soros...Hunter Biden was a head of Burisma and earned large amounts of money in an industry he had little idea of...Joe Biden is being investigated for his investments in Ukraine...I have no interest in Hitler and by the way my mum was German and I know all about his reign as my mum was seperated from her family at the time of the war,met my dad who was a Polish heavy transport driver in the Polish army working with the Canadian paratroop division got married and moved straight to Australia because both the parents families and properties were destroyed and had the option of coming here,they did...
Mussolini or Pot dont interest me and as far as Putin goes,you should do more research on him ...he is destroying the corrupt Nazi battalion,the ones who destroy their own people as well as the Russian people of Ukraine...

 

[earl]

Zelensky is a corrupt puppet placed in charge of the Ukraine by Obama and financed by Soros...Hunter Biden was a head of Burisma and earned large amounts of money in an industry he had little idea of...Joe Biden is being investigated for his investments in Ukraine..

This is honestly Russian or some other propaganda. Why do you believe this stuff ?

Mussolini or Pot dont interest me and as far as Putin goes,you should do more research on him ...he is destroying the corrupt Nazi battalion,the ones who destroy their own people as well as the Russian people of Ukraine...

Do you know how offensive these comments are. So Russian soldiers raping and killing Ukrainian people is fine.

You do realize Russia has invaded and is dropping bombs on the Ukraine regularly.

Mate - you aren't a rude ingrate but your beliefs are just conspiracy theories that aren't true and they are offensive.